"Viva Baseball", On Tv, A Film About Dominican And Other Latin "Pioneer" Players!

miguel · Sep 14, 2005

"Viva Baseball", On Tv, A Film About Dominican And Other Latin "Pioneer" Players!

On September 23rd, a film about latin players will premiere on Spike Tv at 9pm.

As per the NY Post's Sandra Guzman:

Director Dan Klores, hopes to get the record straight about latin ball players.

The film captures how "old timers" in impoverished towns in the DR and Panama began playing the sport with the most unusual equipment - cardboard boxes for mitts, sticks for bats, limes and coconuts for balls and cow manure for bases.

It also tells the painful, often racist, experiences that pioneers such as Roberto Clemente, Cookie Rojas, Felipe Alou and Juan Marichal experinced both on and off the field. Humor and cultural pride carried many of the players through the rough moments.

And inning after inning, these brave "old timer" built the foundation for today's Latino ballers.

Ironically, one of the central figures in the game then and today, ex-Giant, Felipe Alou, now the team's manager, recounted the racism he endured in the 1960's.

While the film looks back, it tells a story that continues to unfold today.

For Klores, it's also about ensuring that the contributions of the pioneers are not forgotten.

By Sandra Guzman.
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Btw, the film also tells the story of Puerto Rican Victor Pellot, whom back in 1953 was in the Yankees minor league team and even thought was very, very good, was pressured to change his name to "Vic Power". They seemed to have a problem because he was black, dated white girls and was considered to be flashy. He was never called to play in the "big show" even thought he was a good first baseman and was the lead batter in the American Association in 1953. What a shame!!!.

I will watch this film.

I wish that I could make DVD copies for whomever can not watch it. It would had been my pleasure but it's against the law,

. Sorry, I can not make you guys a copy but PM me if you can not watch and I will tell you everything about it via PM. What a shame since I have about 75 recordable DVD"s.

trina · Sep 14, 2005

Oh great. The day of my birthday, and guess what my husband will be doing? :tired: Seriously, though, it will be very interesting.

miguel · Sep 15, 2005

Yes, me too!

trina said:
Oh great. The day of my birthday, and guess what my husband will be doing? :tired: Seriously, though, it will be very interesting.

I also think that it will be VERY interesting!.

About your hubby spending your b-day watching it, well, do this:

get a bat

put it behind your back

call him over

let him get a peek of it

then ask him to take you out

then watch how fast he puts his pants on

WORKS ALL THE TIME, at least it worked when they did it to me!!. LOL.

trina · Sep 15, 2005

miguel said:
I also think that it will be VERY interesting!.

About your hubby spending your b-day watching it, well, do this:

get a bat

put it behind your back

call him over

let him get a peek of it

then ask him to take you out

then watch how fast he puts his pants on

WORKS ALL THE TIME, at least it worked when they did it to me!!. LOL.

That may just be what it'll take!

miguel · Sep 16, 2005

Ok!

trina said:
That may just be what it'll take!

Hihi!

Another thing about this film that it's interesting to me is that fact that it took Klores 8 years to make it. That's alot of "notes" and researches.

I am really more interested in all the crap that they had to go though. I know that it's NOTHING compared to now but that does not mean that Latin players are still not discriminated against even at this time and age.

I can not wait to see it!!.

toneloc24 · Sep 16, 2005

Migs

Welcome to a look into our world (that of the African-Americans). LOL!!!

There'll probably be nothing new for us to see, kind of a "been there, done that, experienced the same" take on things. However, it'll be interesting to see how the same crap was done to Latin ballpayers.

For those who don't understand that racism and discrimination is deep-rooted in nature, maybe they'll get something out of it.

I was proud that Felipe Alou took such a public stand earlier this year. Too many times people let **** fly, without confronting it. He forced the radio station and the SF Giants to DO something, as opposed to just shrugging it off. How times have changed for the better!

trina · Sep 16, 2005

Here is a great article on the legend, Juan Marichal. I loved this article:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/05/19/SPG4LCREA81.DTL

miguel · Sep 16, 2005

toneloc24 said:
Welcome to a look into our world (that of the African-Americans). LOL!!!

There'll probably be nothing new for us to see, kind of a "been there, done that, experienced the same" take on things. However, it'll be interesting to see how the same crap was done to Latin ballpayers.

For those who don't understand that racism and discrimination is deep-rooted in nature, maybe they'll get something out of it.

I was proud that Felipe Alou took such a public stand earlier this year. Too many times people let **** fly, without confronting it. He forced the radio station and the SF Giants to DO something, as opposed to just shrugging it off. How times have changed for the better!

I am also very proud that Alou did what he did.

I am sure that back in his playing days, he would not even considered voicing his opinions on a race matter. Time have indeed changed. That we still have MANY with a "racist mentality", sure, but it has changed a lot, for the better.

What Latin and players from the Negroes Leagues went thru was just sickening. I must say that players from the Negroes Leagues had it much, much, much worse. Big time since they faced racism in their own country!.

How old was Sachet Paige when he was allowed to play in the Big Leagues?Was it almost at the end of his career?. What a fricking shame!.

easygoin · Sep 16, 2005

He was great

trina said:
Here is a great article on the legend, Juan Marichal. I loved this article:

when my dad talks about the so-called bums of today, he always talks about him. I don't know if you know this... but my father tells me he once pitched..... get this 16 or 18 innings and threw like 216 pitches unbelievable. So when I talk about a ARM of today he just laughs and brings his name up, and I just go in my corner. :nervous:

trina · Sep 17, 2005

easygoin said:
when my dad talks about the so-called bums of today, he always talks about him. I don't know if you know this... but my father tells me he once pitched..... get this 16 or 18 innings and threw like 216 pitches unbelievable. So when I talk about a ARM of today he just laughs and brings his name up, and I just go in my corner. :nervous:

I know he was before my time (ahem), and all I've really seen of his pitching is through baseball classics they show from time to time, and a documentary I saw once, which was a portrayal of his life. I would've loved to see these two play together. Many say that Marichal is the best pitcher of all time, but didn't receive the same recognition he would've if he was white. Shameful, but believable. I think it will be a long time before he's forgotten by Dominican people, because Dominicans hold onto the memory of his playing days and pass it onto their children.

miguel · Sep 17, 2005

I saw him!

trina said:
I know he was before my time (ahem), and all I've really seen of his pitching is through baseball classics they show from time to time, and a documentary I saw once, which was a portrayal of his life. I would've loved to see these two play together. Many say that Marichal is the best pitcher of all time, but didn't receive the same recognition he would've if he was white. Shameful, but believable. I think it will be a long time before he's forgotten by Dominican people, because Dominicans hold onto the memory of his playing days and pass it onto their children.

SInce I am an old fart, I DID watch him pitch, I believe, the last 2 years of his career.

It was such a pleasure to see that man raise his leg up when delivering his pitches. Amazing!.

IMO, not the best pitcher that have ever lived but one of the most intimidating one.

You are more than correct, he was a product of a time when the color of one's skin was valued more than one's worth!. I can honeslty say that if he were white, American people would remember him the same way they remember Ruth, DiMaggio, Koufax, Williams and all the greats. It's a shame that many of my American friends have not even heard of him. And those who remember him, most of them "HAVE" to bring up the "bat" incident.

He will always be the 'Dominican Dandy". He makes himself useful and is always available when needed. He helps his people alot. He has a few baseball academies. He always carried himself like a gentleman (except for the bat incident).

For all he did, they can never do enough for him, ever.

rellosk · Sep 17, 2005

miguel said:
I can honeslty say that if he were white, American people would remember him the same way they remember Ruth, DiMaggio, Koufax, Williams and all the greats. It's a shame that many of my American friends have not even heard of him. And those who remember him, most of them "HAVE" to bring up the "bat" incident.

I think those of us with some history of baseball remember Marichal for his accomplishments on the field rather than the "bat incident". (I never even heard of that incident until I read of it on this board).

While Marichal was a great pitcher, to expect people to remember him as people remember Ruth, DiMaggio, or Williams is unreasonable, regardless of his race. He certainly wasn't the "best pitcher of all time" as hinted at by another poster. Arguably, he might not even be the best pitcher of his generation. Statistically in his 16 year career, he rarely lead the league in any statistic (ERA, Wins, SO). However he was consistent and statically has a great career; and the sportswriters recognized this as he was put in the hall of fame in what I believe was his second or third year of eligibility.

Baseball aficionados also remember him for being a pioneer.

miguel · Sep 20, 2005

I hear you!

rellosk said:
I think those of us with some history of baseball remember Marichal for his accomplishments on the field rather than the "bat incident". (I never even heard of that incident until I read of it on this board).

While Marichal was a great pitcher, to expect people to remember him as people remember Ruth, DiMaggio, or Williams is unreasonable, regardless of his race. He certainly wasn't the "best pitcher of all time" as hinted at by another poster. Arguably, he might not even be the best pitcher of his generation. Statistically in his 16 year career, he rarely lead the league in any statistic (ERA, Wins, SO). However he was consistent and statically has a great career; and the sportswriters recognized this as he was put in the hall of fame in what I believe was his second or third year of eligibility.

Baseball aficionados also remember him for being a pioneer.

When the "bat" incident happened I was only 3 years old so I had to heard it somewhere. It's also a known fact that he was not inducted into the Hall Of Fame his first 3 years because of that incident.

After the incident, Roseboro and him became the best of friends and even Roseboro went to "bat" for him for the Hall to make Marichal a member. Roseboro was even present, many times, in Marichal's Golf Tournament in the DR, way after they both retired.

I am with you, he was not the best pitcher of his generation since Sandy Koufax and a few others were around at the same time. But as Trina's link says, he was the winningest pitcher of the 60's.

I will tell you this, with all obstacles the he had to face, if he did not had to worry about race and all the adversities that came his way, I am more than sure that he would had been much, much better.

miguel · Sep 23, 2005

It's here!!

miguel said:
On September 23rd, a film about latin players will premiere on Spike Tv at 9pm.

As per the NY Post's Sandra Guzman:

Director Dan Klores, hopes to get the record straight about latin ball players.

The film captures how "old timers" in impoverished towns in the DR and Panama began playing the sport with the most unusual equipment - cardboard boxes for mitts, sticks for bats, limes and coconuts for balls and cow manure for bases.

It also tells the painful, often racist, experiences that pioneers such as Roberto Clemente, Cookie Rojas, Felipe Alou and Juan Marichal experinced both on and off the field. Humor and cultural pride carried many of the players through the rough moments.

And inning after inning, these brave "old timer" built the foundation for today's Latino ballers.

Ironically, one of the central figures in the game then and today, ex-Giant, Felipe Alou, now the team's manager, recounted the racism he endured in the 1960's.

While the film looks back, it tells a story that continues to unfold today.

For Klores, it's also about ensuring that the contributions of the pioneers are not forgotten.

By Sandra Guzman.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Btw, the film also tells the story of Puerto Rican Victor Pellot, whom back in 1953 was in the Yankees minor league team and even thought was very, very good, was pressured to change his name to "Vic Power". They seemed to have a problem because he was black, dated white girls and was considered to be flashy. He was never called to play in the "big show" even thought he was a good first baseman and was the lead batter in the American Association in 1953. What a shame!!!.

I will watch this film.

I wish that I could make DVD copies for whomever can not watch it. It would had been my pleasure but it's against the law, . Sorry, I can not make you guys a copy but PM me if you can not watch and I will tell you everything about it via PM. What a shame since I have about 75 recordable DVD"s.

Today is the day, guys and gals!!.

Don't forget and enjoy!!.

easygoin · Sep 23, 2005

that was great

Thank's Very Much Form Me And My Father.

Cleef · Sep 24, 2005

What are the reviews?

I'm on West Coast time, so it's going to start shortly.

Curious of any impressions.

miguel · Sep 24, 2005

You tell me!

Cleef said:
I'm on West Coast time, so it's going to start shortly.

Curious of any impressions.

Cleef, I only remembered about the film while I was driving to work so therefore I forgot to Tivo it. I had my darling Louisa record it for me and I also had some friends do the same. Even after I get it from whomever, I will still see it again on Sunday since they are showing it again and then I will be able to record it straight into a DVD.

Since I am "curious George", I did saw about 3 minutes of it when I got home at around 9:30pm. I saw Luis Tiant, Minnie Minoso, Orlando Cepeda, Tony Perez and others talking. But since I wanted to see it from the beginning, I turned if off. Darn it!!. My brother already told me that he was almost in tears after seeing so many great ball players from "yesterday". He said that it was truly amazing!.

Feel free to post what you liked about it, even if I have not seen it.

suarezn · Sep 24, 2005

It was good. I would have liked to have seen a little bit more about Dominican players and then maybe a transition to players nowdays. I thought they spent way too much time on Tony Perez...other than that it was pretty good.

My grandfather who played about 10-15 years before Marichal, was one of the best players of his area. He tells me, and his friends confirm, that it was not unusual for him to throw two complete games in a day (no relief pitchers back then). He threw several no hitters and in addition he was also one of the best hitters. He definitely would have played professional, but back then in The DR if you wanted to play at a higher level you had to join the army. He did not want to do that. Also back then baseball was not as glamorous, specially for black players like himself, and you didn't make much money.

I just wonder how far he would have gotten had he continued...

Cleef · Sep 24, 2005

Well done

This story gets at the roots of Latin baseball and how it was spread across Latin America.

Some of the interviews had me rolling, really funny, especially Vic Power (Victor Pellot). Other interviews, especially El Tiante's long struggle to see his parents - after 17 years i think - were emotional and depicted very well the difficulties the players went through, above and beyond the racial/social barriers.

Other impressions:

Vladimir Guerrero is a modern day version of Roberto Clemente (modern meaning: he's not nearly as hungry, much lazier, nowhere near the speed and hustle of Clemente, but the swing and Howitzer arm are replicas). If Clemente played today, he'd be head and shoulders above the rest.

I had no idea how good Minnie Minoso was before I saw this film.

I know have a much better understanding of the LA/SF rivalry. Marichal's bat beating incident then, would put him in jail today. No way the PC Republic of the US would allow such a thing to go without jail time. The public outcry would be deafening. However, I would have liked to know if the catcher really said the things JM claims. Regardless, I have a much greater fondness for the SF Giants exploits in the Latin arena. JM's delivery - the over the top motion - seemed so exagerated I can't fathom him pitching so many innings that way.

While watching the show I'm naturally thinking of it in terms of today's modern player, and Manny Ramirez popped into my mind. Although the footage in the film is "highlights" and you don't get to see the long haul of a season and what might miss the highlight reel, but I saw non-stop hustle and players playing the game as it should be. I think Manny Ramirez has become too Americanized;lazy, comfortable - it's just a job.

Finally, if after seeing the clips and interviews with MeRod, you don't see how - and why - he's the most loathsome character of the modern era (perhaps right behind Bonds) then you never will. He talks of how the former players made it so much easier for him. Someone needs to remind this dipshit he's as Dominican as Apple Pie; born and raised in the states, not some sugarcane field. He's got Latin blood for sure, but he comes off in this film as a bigger fraud then I ever imagined. What an incredibly foolish man.

Thanks for the lead on this, great work by Dan Klores, I really enjoyed it and will try and watch it again.

principe · Sep 24, 2005

Missed the show

Anyone that saw this show, could you rate

"Viva Baseball", On Tv, A Film About Dominican And Other Latin "Pioneer" Players!

I didn't last long...

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I didn't last long...

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I didn't last long...

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I didn't last long...

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I didn't last long...

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I didn't last long...

I didn't last long...

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I didn't last long...

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