Shameful but true

Riu

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I saw a thread going aroud "WHY DON'T DOMINICANS MANAGE?". While on that note. I must say that some of us (1st world citizens) are use to the I WANT IT/HERE YOU HAVE IT way of living. It is while on this note that I must look at what's going on in Florida after jurricane Wilma. No electricity, no water, NO SERVICE. This has got me thinking "ARE WE (1ST WORLD CITIZENS) SO USED TO OUR WAY OF LIVING THAT WE CANNOT MANAGE WHEN GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE SECTOR ARE UNABLE TO PROVIDE SERVICES AND HELP?

In contrast, dominicans deal with no electricity (get an inverter, batteries, generator etc), have no water, they get a well in their house. It seem to me they are more able to cope than they 1st world counterparts.

Granted, Florida's situation is due to a natural disaster, but imagine no power over a larger area. It is shameful that as 1st world citizens we may not be able to cope while 3rd world citizens are already coping without some services that we could not do without.
 

Hillbilly

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By definition, being a Third world country means that we live in these conditions--at least a lot of the population does-all the time.

If you read Adriano Miguel Tejad's note on Why Dominicans clap when the plane lands" perhaps you will understand the society a bit more.

They clap because "it worked!!"

And "it worked" does not often happen in the Dominican Republic.

Sure, some of us enjoy water, lights and relative security, but the majority of the population does not.

What happened in Florida might be chaulked up to "expectations" since, before the hurricane hit, there was Jeb and his cohorts bragging about how much gasoline was in Florida ports and how many trucks and how much this and how much that was on hand and ready to roll....But they couldn't get it rolloing because the roads were flooded, blocked or out!

It is very sad, and I am sorry that they are suffering. Some of my friends have been through 6 hurricanes in just two years.,


HB :(:(:(
 

Riu

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I think that Dominican may be better prepared psychologically than their U.S. counterparts to handle scarcity. Dominican deal and cope with scarcity daily, 1st worlders however are not use to deal with even a minor interruption of service. Although most of the Dominican system agents (political and private sector) lack the vision to resolve these long term problems, the population does an exceptional job finding how to cope with and resolve some of these daily nuances.
 

bob saunders

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But part of the problem is how Dominican manage. They manage to steal electricity, they manage to buy subidized propane. If they all paid they "share" of what they used, they might not have an electrical problem. Certainly it's all more involved and complicated than that, but it speaks to the general attitude that affects the country.
 

HOWMAR

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The major difference between the two societies is that in the US, when there is a disaster and lack of government response, the government political apointees are fired. If it happens again, the elected politicians future is over. Here in the DR, it's just business as usual.
 

Riu

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In my opinion is a vicious cycle. The operator does not provide services because they can't collect for services rendered; in turn the population steals because the operators do not provide the services. At the same time operators steal from those who pay. It is major structural problem. They are not willing to compromise to resolve the problem.
 

Riu

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HOWMAR said:
The major difference between the two societies is that in the US, when there is a disaster and lack of government response, the government political apointees are fired. If it happens again, the elected politicians future is over. Here in the DR, it's just business as usual.

But not in the case of that guy that got fired for the gas leak, don't remember the name. I think that should happen at all levels. Accountability should be applied across the board.
 

Criss Colon

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If I Lived In Florida,or even Mississipi or Louisiana I Would Be Fine!

As long as I survived the initial "Blow" with my house relatively intact,I would be fine!
Although I attribute this to living in the DR for 10 years.You MUST become "self-sufficient" here! To SURVIVE!
Seven years ago I bought a big house in the Arroyo Hondo sector of Santo Domingo.Just "Dumb Luck", it had a water well,a cistern,tinaco,and a 20 kilo Detroit Diesel electric generator.I added a 3.6 kilo inverter with eight batteries.The house had a big wall with two gates.My "infrastructure" was complete!
Slowly I added three 12 gallon propane tanks,15 five gallon water bottles,fuel for my generator,gasoline storage for my vehicles,"dry" foodstuffs (rice,beans,cornmeal,sugar,salt,powdered milk,canned tuna,sausage,"Mac & Cheese",get the picture????
Add to that a "12" ga."Mossberg" and the deal is complete.
Have some cash "burried" in the yard,and you are ready for whatever "Mother Nature",or "Papi Leonel" can throw at you!
During the last hurrican,"George?" my neighbors esed to leave their cel phones at my house at night so I could charge them up!I was waiting for the first one to ask for food or water,but fortunately(That Time!) it didn't get to that!!
I hate those rotting bodies hanging on my gates!!!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

Escott

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Riu said:
I think that Dominican may be better prepared psychologically than their U.S. counterparts to handle scarcity. Dominican deal and cope with scarcity daily, 1st worlders however are not use to deal with even a minor interruption of service. Although most of the Dominican system agents (political and private sector) lack the vision to resolve these long term problems, the population does an exceptional job finding how to cope with and resolve some of these daily nuances.
Now who in their right minds would WANT to deal with the daily headaches? Necessity is the mother of invention and if we have to we deal with it but... Wish it was different here.

Escott
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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Hillbilly said:
They clap because "it worked!!"

HB :(:(:(
Well,

perhaps "it worked and we are still alive" is more correct.

Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, and other Hispanics also clap when the plane finally lands.

-NAL
 

NALs

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Riu said:
I saw a thread going aroud "WHY DON'T DOMINICANS MANAGE?". While on that note. I must say that some of us (1st world citizens) are use to the I WANT IT/HERE YOU HAVE IT way of living. It is while on this note that I must look at what's going on in Florida after jurricane Wilma. No electricity, no water, NO SERVICE. This has got me thinking "ARE WE (1ST WORLD CITIZENS) SO USED TO OUR WAY OF LIVING THAT WE CANNOT MANAGE WHEN GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE SECTOR ARE UNABLE TO PROVIDE SERVICES AND HELP?

In contrast, dominicans deal with no electricity (get an inverter, batteries, generator etc), have no water, they get a well in their house. It seem to me they are more able to cope than they 1st world counterparts.

Granted, Florida's situation is due to a natural disaster, but imagine no power over a larger area. It is shameful that as 1st world citizens we may not be able to cope while 3rd world citizens are already coping without some services that we could not do without.
The US society is the most market oriented society on earth.

The people there depend on the market for more than just about any other peoples in this world.

When market fails to provide the necessities, the government is and should fill the void.

With the case of natural disasters, it takes time for help to reach anyone.

Having said that, many of those Floridians could have avoided much of their strife by preparing BEFORE the storm.

It appears that few people think beyond the present, which is odd since so many people complain about the same here...:eek: ;)

Maybe it's the sun? LOL

-NAL
 

NALs

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Riu said:
But not in the case of that guy that got fired for the gas leak, don't remember the name. I think that should happen at all levels. Accountability should be applied across the board.
It would be hard for pressure to be placed on putting people accountable for their own actions, when people don't put attention when accountability is put in place.

Notice, not much being said about the firing for the gas leak, especially when one compares to what people say about those who dodge the bullet.

-NAL
 
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"""If you read Adriano Miguel Tejad's note on Why Dominicans clap when the plane lands" perhaps you will understand the society a bit more.

They clap because "it worked!!" """

what I never understood about all those dominians clapping, is that they clap the instant the wheel touches the ground...in my mind that dont mean a thing.....havoc could still be in the cards, and danger is still at hand possibly......Id clap when the plane slowed to a less deadly speed maybe.


I also think that americans expect more, because they are CHARGED more... they are told to pay taxes, so things are built and put in place. Plus they pay for utilities and they expect the company they pay to be ready to get things back on line if service is interupted... they expect to be paid every month on time dont they?.....power was out every single day on my last trip at one time or another.... and on the previous trip in sept, the water was off for 5 days straight.. to the point we were buying bottle water to bath with. I dont know if many actually pay for water and electricity in the DR. I heard that they shut the power off once in a while to punish the population for not paying for the electricity...makes sense to me.... because if it costs you money to make power, and only a few are paying for it....and you are not making enough money.....you would shut the power off completely instead of JUST LOOSE MONEY A FEW HOURS A DAY when it is on. and if they were making money on the power.. they would leave it on to KEEP making money......this was told to me by a dominican of influence. ......bob
 

Keith R

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Riu said:
in turn the population steals because the operators do not provide the services.
I'm afraid it's not that simple. My observation, after 19 yrs associated with the country and living there 4, is that far too many wouldn't pay even if service was constant and reliable. Many just use the inconsistent service as an excuse, a rationalization....
 

DominicanScotty

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So true

Riu said:
I think that Dominican may be better prepared psychologically than their U.S. counterparts to handle scarcity. Dominican deal and cope with scarcity daily, 1st worlders however are not use to deal with even a minor interruption of service. Although most of the Dominican system agents (political and private sector) lack the vision to resolve these long term problems, the population does an exceptional job finding how to cope with and resolve some of these daily nuances.


In the wake of Katrina the first thing many did was sit on their backsides and wait for the government to do something for them! You will not see that in the DR!
 

HOWMAR

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DominicanScotty said:
In the wake of Katrina the first thing many did was sit on their backsides and wait for the government to do something for them! You will not see that in the DR!
The difference being in the US the citizens have decided that the government should be the entity to react in case of natural disaster or emergency. They have decided that they will have their tax dollars finance this response. Up to Katrina, this has served the American population well. Since Katrina, changes are being made to improve the response. The difference in the DR is that from past experience the people know that no government help will come and any money dedicated to disaster relief will just be pilfered.
 

daddy1

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Thats so true Howmar

And I will also add to this.... that the U.S. is a country in which you must have all your finances, bank account and credit cards in tact!... or you are asking for trouble, especially if you live in high risk area's... yes.. New Orleans and many Floridians in Southwest Miami need help but look at the class of people who need it the most (the poor communities)..are the one's who in the majority are on those lines out there, with no other personal money or back up plans.

people are not complaining in the palm beaches or Ft lauderdale area's as much...most folk's there are financially stable..New Orleans was and still is a soup bowl of a city....Santo Domingo would not have done so well if the city was 12 to 24 ft below see level...when your house is up to the roof in water the thought of managing yourself goes out the window, D.R. homes would have done better but the clean up and diseases would have crippled many!

Look!.. People become more aggrevated in the U.S. about relief efforts after a disaster because they know the Funds and the relief is there, and when they don't recieve it all hell breaks lose!....local officials must declare there area a disaster to the government....and the government which have the means and resources have to respond immediately. That's just the way American's feel about there goverment...not many can make the same claim
 
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palmiche

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HOWMAR said:
The difference being in the US the citizens have decided that the government should be the entity to react in case of natural disaster or emergency. They have decided that they will have their tax dollars finance this response. Up to Katrina, this has served the American population well. Since Katrina, changes are being made to improve the response. The difference in the DR is that from past experience the people know that no government help will come and any money dedicated to disaster relief will just be pilfered.

So... who is a 3rd world country here?
Bring the DR problems to the US and then ask the question of "Who can manage better?
 

HOWMAR

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palmiche said:
So... who is a 3rd world country here?
Bring the DR problems to the US and then ask the question of "Who can manage better?
The best management of the problem is to prevent it in the first place. Granted, Katrina exposed flaws in the system. Guarantee no president will allow it to happen again. That's the difference. Everytime there is a flood in the DR, the people rebuild and life goes on until the next flood. I will expect that if New Orleans is rebuilt in the same place, the levies will be rebuilt for a Cat 5 storm.
 

Riu

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The U.S. by far is one of the most capable countries in crisis management in terms of government response. We Americans are, however, not to well equipped to manage. The problem is, we have become too dependent on government to manage and resolve the problems for us. It is expected of government and demanded, rightfully so, because we pay for it. However, the U.S. is suffering from serious structural problems and resources are stretched to the limit. Government response is lagging. Americans have to become more proactive and learn to be more creative in managing crisis. Government financial capability is beyond capacity and crisis management and resolution is synonymous with large capital expenditure.

Chris Colon has the IDEA, luck favors the prepared.