Alfonso Soriano, Right or wrong?

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toneloc24

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In my opinion, he is completely correct in refusing to enter left field yesterday. What were the Washington Nationals thinking?

The Nationals KNEW that he is a 2B, KNEW he did not want to move to the outfield, yet they traded for him nonetheless, even though they have Jose Vidro. It might have been wise to contact him BEFORE the trade. The Nationals had a god-complex.

He's an infielder, been an infielder his entire career. Remember, he was a hot-shot SS in the NY Yankees farm system. He moved to 2B to team with Derek Jeter. He puts up All-Star numbers since he broke into MLB with the Yankees. His defense is still suspect, but not a liability to the point of moving him.

Think about it. Would the Bosox try to make Curt Schilling play OF without asking him? Would the St. Louis Cardinals try to make Albert Pujols play left field, without asking him? Sincerely doubt it.

If Soriano sits out this year, I'd completely understand his POV. The Nationals needed to show some respect. And I'm sure that many players are now checking into their contracts along the same lines as this issue. And I'm also sure that free agent players will be thinking twice about there as well.

Your thoughts?
 

trina

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I agree with your sentiments. He's never played field, so I don't understand why they would pull this without his agreement.

On a side note. What the HELL was Manny Acta thinking when he sent Soriano, strikeout king, 0-15 in the WBC, as our PINCH HITTER in the DR/Cuba game? We needed someone who could get the job done, so he calls on Soriano?
 

miguel

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Very difficult!

This is a very good topic, very good indeed!!.

It's also a very "touchy" and sensitive situation.

I am 100% with you. The guy is not a rookie who needs to "please" anybody. He is a seasoned player who has demostrated that he has all that is needed to be great.

If I were him, I WOULD NOT play the outfield. He has nothing to prove. If you know that I am a second baseman and you signed me as such, if you don't want me to play second, trade me. As simple as that!.

I know that there are many that are saying: "well, he should take one for the team and show that he is a team player". Well, the fact of the matter is that he already was a team player with the Yankees and it earned him a trip out of Yankeestown!.

Playing the outfield after playing the infield is NOT as easy as many think. I used to play the infield all my life and when I tried to play the outfield, it was hell for me. Not only was it very difficult, I was always playing unhappy, always hoping for the ball not to be hit towards me!!.

There are MANY that can do it, they are more that can't.

I just hope that he sticks to his "guns" when they start attacking him and acussing him of not "taking one for the team".
 

Potato_Salad

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I agree with you guys.

With only around two weeks left before the regular season begins, this issue needs to be solved.

Has anyone heard of any teams that are interested in Soriano?
 

Berzin

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Anyone who has played baseball or any other sport for that matter knows that switching positions after specializing for so long is difficult if not impossible. It'd like trying to learn a new sport. Forget it. Alfonso should stay at second base. This guy is what, a potential threat to hit 40 homers and steal 40 bases a year and this is how they utilize him?
He'd be better off getting some hitting instruction-he needs to learn patience up at the plate. Try that before messing with his position.
 

sweetdbt

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I can't believe everyone is backing Soriano on this. What you are all overlooking is that he is not, I repeat NOT a good second baseman. His fielding percentage is by far the worst of any regular second sacker in the bigs over the past several years, and one of the worst EVER. He is stupid not to play the outfield for the Nationals and show he is a team player, not a prima dona. His value on the market goes down every day he persists in this.

Less talented players than Alfonso change positions all the time. It's not that big a deal, especially moving to the outfield, where the precision timing with teammates needed at second base won't be a factor.
 

toneloc24

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This is the Nationals fault, all around

sweetdbt said:
I can't believe everyone is backing Soriano on this. What you are all overlooking is that he is not, I repeat NOT a good second baseman. His fielding percentage is by far the worst of any regular second sacker in the bigs over the past several years, and one of the worst EVER. He is stupid not to play the outfield for the Nationals and show he is a team player, not a prima dona. His value on the market goes down every day he persists in this.

Less talented players than Alfonso change positions all the time. It's not that big a deal, especially moving to the outfield, where the precision timing with teammates needed at second base won't be a factor.

I respect your opinion on this. I fully understand the otherside of the argument. This was just a bad trade, a poorly thought-out desperation move.

The Nationals TRADED for him, a 2B, without expressively asking him switch positions, until now. He expressed all throughout the offseason that he is only playing 2B. What were they thinking? They asked for this situation. This really could have been avoided if they were just a little diligent.

Would you trade for Dirk Nowitski, an offensive-minded forward for the Dallas Mavericks, and tell him after you trade for him that he's playing point guard or else? Would you force Steve Nash to play center? Would you make Ronaldinho play goalie? These are all examples of offensive-minded players who offer little on defense.

Even The Yankees conferred with ARod before they traded for him, to see if it was gonna be a problem. There's too much money involved to make such assumptions. Soriano was just awarded $10 million in arbitration this past offseason, biggest judgment to date. The Nationals TRADED for him.

As for being a team player, Soriano is a SS. That's his natural position. He's already taking one of the team, and got sent to Texas after it. He's only been playing 2B, in any capacity, since the Yankees asked him to switch. Yes, he sucks at it, but he's a better 2B than Manny Ramirez is a LF. Anyone asking for Manny to DH?

And yes, there will be plenty of teams that still will want Soriano. He's not a bad apple, just "placed" into a bad situation. If the Nationals go through with their threat of placing him on the disqualified list, they will be stuck fielding with minor-league-quality players and 2nd rates, as no top free agent in their right mind would ever consider going there in the near future.

I applaud Soriano for standing on his feet and being a man, as opposed to the slave that GM Jim Bowden seems to think he is. (Check his comments for what I'm referring to.). Soriano got royally screwed in this. He's a 2B, not an outfielder. Notice how Frank Robinson is staying completely out of this. This is the organization's and the GM's issue, not Frank Robinson's, not the team's.
 

Cleef

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I side with Nationals (any team) on this.

Yes, they took a risk trading for him, and it hasn't turned out how they'd hoped.

Soriano has been - and continues to be - a lousy 2B. I'm amazed he hasn't moved already - in his own interest.

He's on his third team for a reason. 2B'men NEED to be excellent defensive players, their offense is icing. It's not possible to produce more runs than you give up if you're a lousy at 2B.

His offense is tremendous, but if you extrapolate out what limited range, a lousy glove and shaky arm does to a pitching staff, it doesn't lead to more wins. Not even close.

Up the middle defense is critical to any team's success. So many outs are recorded at second base, it's the closest base to get an out for the vast majority of balls hit. If you allow your opponent extra outs - over a 162 game season - you're not going to win more than you lose.

That's not an opinion.

toneloc24 said:
Yes, he sucks at it, but he's a better 2B than Manny Ramirez is a LF. Anyone asking for Manny to DH?
Do you really believe that?

It's apples and oranges. Manny gets half the chances as a secondbaseman, and he's not that bad either.
 

Potato_Salad

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I just saw ESPN news and they said that Soriano will make a decision (whether to play outfield or not) by Wednesday.
 

THE GAME

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ESPN commentator saying that Soriano is selfish... and that he should know that the Nationals will not back down from their request. And if Soriano refuses then the Nationals will ask MLB to put Soriano out of payroll, out of roster and he will NOT be eligible for free agency after this season. And they were also saying that Soriano is not that great of a 2nd baseman. He has had more errors since 2001 than many other top 2nd basemen. So in conclusion, Soriano will move to the outfield. There's no other way. The team has more power in this request than Soriano. So expect to see Soriano in the outfield. I'm not a baseball player but i would prefer the outfield.
 

sweetdbt

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Both the Yankees and the Rangers kicked around the idea of moving Soriano to the outfield, but decided against it to avoid just this kind of drama. Kudos to the Nationals for sticking to their guns.

As someone who works for a living, I don't always get to choose exactly what my duties are. Soriano was hired by the Nationals to play the game of baseball, and that's his job, not a specific position. It gets old listening to guys who make millions playing a kids game complain because they can't have everything their way.
 

Marilyn

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sweetdbt said:
Both the Yankees and the Rangers kicked around the idea of moving Soriano to the outfield, but decided against it to avoid just this kind of drama. Kudos to the Nationals for sticking to their guns.

As someone who works for a living, I don't always get to choose exactly what my duties are. Soriano was hired by the Nationals to play the game of baseball, and that's his job, not a specific position. It gets old listening to guys who make millions playing a kids game complain because they can't have everything their way.

I don't know much about stats and all that has been mentioned here, but I agree that while you must stand by your principles, a job is a job, they're not asking him to be a groundskeeper or to clean the toilets, they are asking him to play baseball and paying him good money too. After his dismal performance in the Classic he shoudn't be so picky, he should be grateful that he still has a job.
 

carlos

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I don't think that Soriano being traded 2x has anything to do with him beong a lousy 2B.

People forget that he wa traded for AROD. I heard a comment like " no wonder the Yankees got rid of shim." Give me a break, they did not give him away; they arguably traded him for the best MLB player ever.

He is still a good overall player and the Nationals dropped the ball by not making sure he would be ok playing the outfield.

the Nationals initially thought that he would get a lot of playing time at 2B because of Vidro's injury.

Who knows...if they would have asked him before completing the trade, he may have agreed. He did not ask to be put in this situation.
 

The Voice

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Soriano Needs to Stop Acting Like a Child

Was it a bad trade on Jim Bowden's part....yes. But to his defensive, Texas did not allow him to speak with Soriano about the possibility of switching positions until the trade was finalized. Now, I'm sorry to say, Soriano is acting like a spoiled child. He is making 10 million dollars to play the game of baseball. Unless his contract (which it doesn't) state that he will only play second base for the team he is with, he has no say so of what position they expect him to play.

I want to see anyone in the business world tell their boss, I do not want to work in a new position just because I don't want to....I have been flipping burgers for 6 years, I don't want to be in charge of beverages. Your a*s would be fired. Baseball; although a sport, it is also a business and Soriano is an employee.

If I were the Nationals, I would place him on the DQ list and show him a lesson. I guarantee his mindset would change then. When he becomes a free agent, I hope he is bright enough to request in his new contract that he will only play 2B. Otherwise, shut the f*ck up and play the game!!
 
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toneloc24

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The ESPN announcer, Jeff Brantley, is full of ****. I heard his comments. Vidro is NOT a perennial All-Star. He had a nice 2 yr run a few years ago. For the past 3 years, he's played less and less due to injuries. Also, go back and look at Jeff Brantley's career and stats, and consider the source.

If you're in sales, involved and in the know on everything, and your company "trades" you to another company, then the new company "decides" to make you a receptionist, would you have a problem, or not? Again, no one even bothered to ask you. It's the same issue.

And yes, there are other options for Soriano. He can play in Japan for a year. They will pay him the same $10 million, and the competition is probably better. LOL!!!

Either way, there WILL be several teams lining up for his services, at 2B, if he wishes.
 

Cleef

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It's a mix of things

carlos said:
I don't think that Soriano being traded 2x has anything to do with him beong a lousy 2B.

People forget that he wa traded for AROD. I heard a comment like " no wonder the Yankees got rid of shim." Give me a break, they did not give him away; they arguably traded him for the best MLB player ever.

He is still a good overall player and the Nationals dropped the ball by not making sure he would be ok playing the outfield.

the Nationals initially thought that he would get a lot of playing time at 2B because of Vidro's injury.

Who knows...if they would have asked him before completing the trade, he may have agreed. He did not ask to be put in this situation.
I think his movement has a lot to do with his poor performance at 2B.

How many 2B in the history of the game can do what he does offensively? If he was an exceptional 2B defensively, the Yankee trade with Texas might not have happened.

Why would they (the Yankees) give up a player at 2B that does something no one else can do at the position for just an uptick (in comparison) at 3B offensively - a position typically loaded with offensive players? AND pay him (MeRod) the most money of any professional athlete?

I think the Yankees knew more than us. Texas learned, and now Washington is smelling the coffee.

The trade with Texas allowed MeRod to go (his wish), and for the Rangers to significantly decrease payroll, get a decent trade-off offensively - and - have a player under their control for a few years (he's not eligible for free agency yet) at a "bargain" price.

Texas already had an All-Star in waiting at 2B, but they too did the trade - thinking of course they would eventually convert him to OF.

Of course he wouldn't move, and Texas saw his defense decimate their already weak pitching staff - in their bandbox of a ballpark - and they correctly figured they can't pay an outfielder - sluggers money - to butcher play after play at 2B.

Essentially, Soriano wants a big contract, and the three teams he's been with aren't interested in signing him long term to play 2B. His (yearly) record arbitration windfall is a demonstration of the sexiness of offense over defense, not because he's an All-Star 2B.

Jim Bowden (nat's GM), gambled that he would have an unhealthy Vidro at 2B and could live with Soriano there, or they could convince him (with a big contract) to go to the OF. He was wrong on both counts (so far); Vidro healthy and Soriano miserable. If he didn't discuss this with Soriano then he sure didn't do his homework on Alfonso's reluctance to switch positions and the lack of concern for the team's good.

Interesting parallel:
Michael Young, All-Star SS with Texas moved from 2B to make room for Soriano without a wimper.
 
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carlos

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The AROD/Soriano trade had nothing to do with the yankees having an issue with Soriano. AROD was unhappy and Texas shipped him.

As a matter of fact, although AROD has the highest salary in baseball, the Yankees are only paying between 14-15 million per year for him..the rest is payed by Texas. The bottom line is that Texas wanted a young and cheaper player who was good and Soriano was that person.

Why did they trade Soriano? simple: the answer is AROD whether you like him or not. I keep hearing how the yankees let him go as if they traded him for someone like Timo Perez or something.

The Nationals should have insisted on speaking to Soriano b4 the trade..it was well within their right to do so and not uncommon. I dont know what the issue is anyway because Soriano is a better overall player than Vidro.

Why dont they move Vidro? it is because they can't due to the injury he suffered.
 

suarezn

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Completely asinine decision from The Nationals. At this point they would do everyone a service if they just trade him, but it looks like they want to force Soriano to do something he doesn't want to do even if they have to pay all this money. Why insist so much that he must play OF? I don't get it...Why not just trade him and use that money to get a good outfielder? Or have him as designated hitter if they want his offense?

Let's say that he does make the move...and he sucks in the OF? What then? His value goes down and they can't get as much for him if they decide to trade him (a lose lose situation)...

If I was Soriano and they forced me to move, I woud move, keep up my offense and completely suck (on purpose) on defense.

Management for this team just does not seem too smart at this point. OK...just accept you made a wrong decision and trade the guy. It's the only way for everyone to gain something...
 

Cleef

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Agree to disagree

carlos said:
The AROD/Soriano trade had nothing to do with the yankees having an issue with Soriano. AROD was unhappy and Texas shipped him.
That's flat out wrong. The Yankees had big issues with Soriano - very big issues.

Did you read about it in the newspapers or on see it on ESPN? No, of course not.

Why would a team that wants to move a high profile player (his trade rumors were constant) bash his attitude and defensive inabilities? How is that going to help them move a player?

carlos said:
Why did they trade Soriano? simple: the answer is AROD whether you like him or not. I keep hearing how the yankees let him go as if they traded him for someone like Timo Perez or something.
That's partially true, anytime you can get someone of MeRod's ability, you have to do it. It sounds to me like you listen to the columnists and ESPN talking heads instead of the beat writers. "Let him go" isn't even fractionally correct when it involves a trade the likes of the MeRod/AS swap.

carlos said:
The Nationals should have insisted on speaking to Soriano b4 the trade..it was well within their right to do so and not uncommon. I dont know what the issue is anyway because Soriano is a better overall player than Vidro.

Why dont they move Vidro? it is because they can't due to the injury he suffered.
I believe the Nationals were denied the opportunity to speak with AS (i'm not positive, but it sure looks that way).

And NO it isn't their right to do so. It's their due diligence sure, but not a right. They screwed that part up.

They won't move Vidro because he's a better player at his position. You say AS is better overall? At 2B?

Let me ask you this, who's your choice for MVP last year? MeRod or Papi?

Tell me why.
 

Cleef

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suarezn said:
Completely asinine decision from The Nationals. At this point they would do everyone a service if they just trade him, but it looks like they want to force Soriano to do something he doesn't want to do even if they have to pay all this money. Why insist so much that he must play OF? I don't get it...Why not just trade him and use that money to get a good outfielder? Or have him as designated hitter if they want his offense?

Let's say that he does make the move...and he sucks in the OF? What then? His value goes down and they can't get as much for him if they decide to trade him (a lose lose situation)...

If I was Soriano and they forced me to move, I woud move, keep up my offense and completely suck (on purpose) on defense.

Management for this team just does not seem too smart at this point. OK...just accept you made a wrong decision and trade the guy. It's the only way for everyone to gain something...
Asinine gamble might be more appropriate.

They can trade him, but they are losing value that way because everyone knows they HAVE to trade him and that means the shoppers will be bargain hunting. That's something GM's must avoid doing. Buy low, sell high - or die.

The DH isn't available in the NL, so that's not an option.

Who's gonna want you on their team if you loaf it in the OF? Who would want to bring such a selfish person into a team game?

But you're right, management made a bad gamble - not very smart.

I'm from the belief that if a player is willing to take the entire team hostage, then you suspend him. Trading sounds more feasible, but not right now. DQ him, let him rot and see if you can get more at the trading deadline. No sense in making your opponents any stronger by selling short on the dollar.

Soriano is nuts. He's losing service time which will just cause him to take longer to reach the level of a free agent.

He needs some guidance.
 
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