Gold or Child?

Snuffy

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May 3, 2002
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First let me say that the reason for this post is that I want to understand the dominican mind...help me on this one. I can't comprehend.

I have run across this several times here where a mother has an opportunity to go to the USA or Europe and leaves her child behind to be cared for by a family member. Now in all the instances that I am familar with...the mother and her family lived a pretty decent life here in the DR. Recently this wonderful little boy is going to be abandoned by his mom...he has no father. He is the nicest little boy and I just feel terrible for him when she starts talking about going to USA soon...in front of him. He knows what is going on and he looks so sad.

I want to tell her and her new husband that life does not stand still for this little boy while mom is away. She will cut out his heart in the process. All the gold in the world is not worth the time she will be away from him. Be true to your children first. Tell the husband that he will have to deal with the situation but that she is not abandoning her son.

Another one is a darling little girl. The mom went to Europe. Came back three years later. The child did not want to be around her for a few days. The child is forced to live with the mom. Then the mom leaves again for Europe. The child is sent back to the grandmother. If that does not screw with the childs mind...what will.

So tell me...is money that big of a deal. If you have a small home, a job, food, clothing....why do you always need more. Why sell your soul to the devil?
 

aegap

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Mar 19, 2005
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A question for thee

. abandoned
. selling soul to the devil
- a tad bit over dramatical?
 

suarezn

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Feb 3, 2002
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One of the things that's occurred in The DR over the last 15 years or so is a major disintegration of the family unit due to people immigrating to other countries. I have seen it first hand in my own family. Once a person immigrates the interaction between family members just changes and often not for the better. Unfortunately there's not much that can be done. People will always leave to look for a "better" life for themselves and their families. When they are about to migrate for the first time all they can see is how much "better" off they will be and the family themselves see it as a needed sacrifice for the sake of the whole family.

The end result is that a large portion of these families end up divorced, the kids end up growing up with the grandparents, etc...
 

miguel

I didn't last long...
Jul 2, 2003
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Si y no!

suarezn said:
One of the things that's occurred in The DR over the last 15 years or so is a major disintegration of the family unit due to people immigrating to other countries. I have seen it first hand in my own family. Once a person immigrates the interaction between family members just changes and often not for the better. Unfortunately there's not much that can be done. People will always leave to look for a "better" life for themselves and their families. When they are about to migrate for the first time all they can see is how much "better" off they will be and the family themselves see it as a needed sacrifice for the sake of the whole family.

The end result is that a large portion of these families end up divorced, the kids end up growing up with the grandparents, etc...
I understand exactly what you are saying and I can understand the OP's frustration but:

We need not forget that parents are known to make any sacrifice needed to provide their kids a better life.

Some calls it selfishness, I, as many others, calls it trying to give your kids a better life, a life that them (the parents) never had.

We seem to forget that there are people risking their lives, just about every single day, getting on a yola not even caring if they will make it dead or alive, in search of a better life. It's called desperation. Let's not forget that we are talking about a third world country where, to many, ANY way out is better than staying.

My 7 brothers and sisters, as I, are products of the love of my life, MOM's (RIP) sacrifice. Ok, she left us with our father, a "zero to the left" who sent for his mother to come take care of us. We ALL turned out pretty normal and when mom passed, she was full aware that we understood why she made the sacrifice she made and that we loved her much more just for the fact that she did it becuse she wanted to give us a better life. AND THAT SHE DID, BIG TIME!!.

I guess that it all depends on the kids and how well they deal with such situation. Educating them on why she is leaving will make a big difference.

Btw, in my book, a parent IS supposed to try whatever is necessary to give their kids a better life. If that means leaving the kids behind with a grandparent, so be it!.
 
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macocael

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It's called desperation.

And even the not so desperate, which takes in a whole bunch of people who are just plain tired of pinching pennies, tired of barely covering the bills (or not), tired of the lack of work, tired of looking into a big empty hole they call their future, and tired of stagnating with no foreseeable change. I see this all the time in the marginally poor -- that is, the group of people who exist just above the level of dire poverty, but are still quite poor, struggling on anywhere between 6000 and 18,000 pesos monthly. Do you have any idea how hard it is to live like this? The pressure wears you down, it chafes at your soul, it pinches your heart.

I agree though the consequences for the family are sometimes disastrous. We have a good friend from a poor family in Haina who, after years of fishing the tourist zones, finally landed a husband and moved to Italy. But her two boys remain behind. while the family in Haina is a large one -- lots of uncles, aunts, grandparents, etc to care for the boys -- it is still a hard thing to bear. The plan is to return, arrange the paperwork, and take the children to Italy --but when?

it is not as though Dominicans are not aware of these problems. Listen to Frank Reyes' beautiful and very sad bachata, Extra?o mi Pueblo, about a guy forced to leave his family to find work:


mi familia piensa que la olvid? pero no, no es as?
yo quisiera regresar pero no puedo, tengo metas que cumplir
Sufro mucho a no estar con ellos, pero es que yo quiero hacerles feliz
Ay mis hijos aseguro que volver?, . . . .
Es que quiero para ustedes construir muchas cosas que en mi vida yo he so?ado
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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Since I am raising my daughter's son at the present time--she is studying in the States--I can hear each and every one of the above posters.

Pretty good thoughts, all the way through.

HB :ermm:
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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Some of us have 'extended family' values and take our family responsibility seriously, even to sharing child raising. There is probably as much value if not more value in this approach as there is in a microfamily approach. I don't know if Hillary Clinton ever said anything else valuable, but, it does take a village...
 

jrf

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Jan 9, 2005
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Spot on...

aegap said:
. abandoned
. selling soul to the devil
- a tad bit over dramatical?

aegap,

I hope that your pointing this out didn't make you stop and see what the Snuffy was originally stating. Snuffy is relating his feelings as he sees/feels it and I concur.

We in N.A. (I don't know where Snuffy is originally from) but we all have problems whether in the RD or in N.A. but they are different problems.
I myself see what the family unit means to the majority of Dominicanos and see it as "golden". I agree with Snuffy as to why, having most of what is needed to survive someone would entertain leaving a child behind but also see most definitely why someone would want to search out something better.

There are cases where it just doesn't really matter to those that are leaving for a better life that their family/children are left behind and I am sure that the money sent back home to help out dwindles or becomes infrequent. But also, being so poor, the fact that someone can receive an extra 5 or 6000 pesos does make life very different there.

What do you do? I am always amazed at how they (Dominicanos) can keep smiling but I also know that behind the smile there is some deep pain and fear about what is going on or may happen. All you need is one person in the family to need some medication or an operation and the real fear and pain you see is quite close to the surface.

So, overdramatic? I don't think so. It shows that Snuffy has a big heart and a love and concern about this situation.
 

DRPAWA

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Sep 3, 2004
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It's not all bad Snuffy

Snuffy, your concerns sounds genuine and shows how much the DR has become a part of you. However, rest assured that it's not all bad. The Dominican Republic is not a country of abandoned children like China, North Korea or other eastern European countries from the former Soviet Bloc. In fact, there may be more good than harm done when a parent leaves a child behind. Everyone involved can benefit - the parent, the child and the caretakers.

If the caretaker is a capable and loving family member she may take better care of the child than the actual parent because financial support usually makes its way back to DR from the parent. The child also gets more options for a potentially better future by having the possibility of legally making his way to the USA. In many instances, the entire caretakers' family is also better off because of the remittances. For example, if the parent sends $200US monthly, this isn't eaten only by the child left behind but rather is also used by the cousins and others in the household.

Let's say that child eventually makes his way to the USA. He then has at his disposal all the potential for a much better life that the US offers - not to mention the close ties he made with the extended family members with whom he lived. These relationships are really priceless and those memories will last a lifetime. It is almost certain that this child will go back to DR and see his cousins and friends who stayed behind and be astounded at the difference in life, education and socioeconomic circumstances that exists between them. The mother will always be the mother even if he only sees her every 2 years for 10 years. Imagine the pleasure a child feels living with his mother again for the first time in 10 years but in much, much better circumstances. While those 10 years are gone, they are easily made up.
 

DominiRican

Member
Apr 7, 2004
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The Dominican mind? I'm sorry, but if you understood the "Dominican mind" than you understand why she is doing this? How about understading HER mind? If that's a legitimate question than I have one too.

Please help me understand the white american mind, why did John Wayne Gacy kill all those people? Maybe if I understood white people, I would understand why he committed such a travesty. :p

My mother left the DR and later brought the kids that were born there over to the US, now they have a lot of money from real estate investments, and when they return to the DR to retire they will have a lifestyle that will leave them very comfortable... how dare she, I wonder what went on in her mind.
 

AnnaC

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Jan 2, 2002
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Yes I think being with your children is extremely important especially while they are young, I believe and know that many are not well informed about what is out there. I'm sure some leave thinking that in a year or two they will return to the DR with a barrel full of money so it's worth the sacrifice.

I don't think most would do it if they really knew what awaits them especially with no skills and no legal visa they will end up being away for most of the children's lives.
 

Snuffy

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May 3, 2002
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Your mothers situation is not the norm. Most are not successful. You think that all dominicans that go to USA return wealthy? If you leave your 4 year old child for three years in search of gold then in my book you lack something in your brain and heart. Most end up in Bronx sitting at night in a small apartment thinking about their child back home. I am sure a lot of it is pain and I am sure the child often in the middle of the night when he lays his head down to sleep thinks of mom and cries. And something happens. It is a slow process but it changes both the mother and the child. And I don't think all the money in the world is worth it. That is just my opinion. You live your life the way you want to. All I would like to see is that before making such a decision you are aware of the odds. I think the downside is much more than the upside and I would not want to make the bet. I won't even take my daughter to the USA for a week and separate her from her mother. I have been offered job positions in the USA that would allow us to see our dreams to fruition much faster. I won't take one and leave my daughter. It isn't worth the money. Leave a child at 4 and come back at 7. No thank you. Another thing. Most people don't know what happiness is much less how to obtain it. I am of the belief that if you give a child ten good first years of happiness and emotional stability...you will probably see that child become a happy and emotionally stable adult. Those odds I would bet on. Here in the DR I am costantly amazed at how Dominicans allow pride to get in the way of doing what is in their best interest. You just gotta have that pair of jeans, don't you.
 

trina

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Jan 3, 2002
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miguel said:
Btw, in my book, a parent IS supposed to try whatever is necessary to give their kids a better life. If that means leaving the kids behind with a grandparent, so be it!.


If they are truly making a sacrifice for the children, wouldn't it make sense to take the child with them to the US, where the child could actually have a better life, and be better educated? To me, it's plain selfishness to leave the child behind. I married Angel, and therefore married his child from another relationship. If you cannot accept the children as part of the marriage, you shouldn't be married. Why would I not want to bring Angel's child here, and give him a better life and better opportunities? If I were the Dominican living in the DR, and fell in love with a foreigner, and he wanted to bring me to the Promised Land, but not my child, guess what? SCREW U. You would have to cut my arms and legs off to take one of my three children from me. I don't understand this whole mentality of improving the child's life by leaving him behind. You are doing severe mental damage to the child by abandoning him for a better life for YOURSELF, NOT for your child.

ETA:
You have a heart of gold, Snuffy.
 
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aegap

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Mar 19, 2005
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An All Too Tipical Dominican Plan

Move abroad (to the U.S tipically) Move river and mountains get your childrens, get your parents, other family members too...move back home in old age...


P.S. Snuffy, I love you. would you marry me?
 

Snuffy

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May 3, 2002
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Ole Snuffy blushing over here....Geeez. Anyway, trina I am not convinced that a child has a better life in the USA. There is a rich life offered here.

If a mother is poor and lives in a barrio and does not have a job and does not have an education...I am more understanding. She is betting she can go to USA for a few years and return with enough money to make a life for her family. She is hoping that she may be able to take all of her children one day. The sees no way out other than to try this. Still even under those conditions I find it difficult to fathom leaving a child behind.

But a mother who has a job, has a house, is lower middle to middle class....I don't understand it. Because her family has a decent life. In fact their life is very rich in ways that they will not find in the USA. I know what happens to lots of these people. I have friends in the Bronx. I call them....what are you doing today...."jus working, same thing" They have lost something. The carefree attitude, the interaction with lots of neighbors and family. My friends in Bronx live in apartment and don't know their neighbors across the hall....who are also Dominican.

HB....your daughters situation...is not what I am talking about. Your family is very very large, wealthy, doctors, lawyers, dentist. She is in school for a specific period. She probably has the money to come and go as she pleases. She can call everyday and talk to her son. The boy is surrounded by very intelligent family members who are keeping a close eye on him and who keep him close.

I am talking about mothers who leave behind a child in search of a long shot. My position is that it is just not worth it.

I do want you dominicans out there to know that I did not intend this to sound racist...but I do live in your country...and so I can look at what you do and make analysis. I'm not in China or Russia. I'm here. And let me tell you, if you sit down with me and talk....you will find that I can find much fault with the American lifestyle also. I don't like the fact that some American parents find it okay to both work and put their child in daycare from a very early age on. So they can "afford a lifestyle". Shouldn't your lifestyle start with the goodwill of your children. A simple house, a simple car, but the ability to double or triple the time you spend with your children. What is wrong with that. Sacrifice their early years so they can have a better life later on. That does not make any sense. You want to fill their early years with attention, love, warmth so that later they have the mental, emotional, and spiritual ability to go on with their life creating a happy life for themselves. Take my sisters children...simply neglected emotionally and spirtually. Father and mother thought....give them a nice home, school, nice clothes, money to spend....they will be fine. Didn't work that way. Boys are now 21 and 23 and still dependent on daddys money and without a clue. Just partying and doing drugs. And daddy still dishes out the money. So in the father and mother' s later years...they have to very depressed still boys who cannot find their way in life. The future does not look good for them.

Enough said, your world here in the DR is okay and full of richness if you will only learn to tap into it and be happy with it.
 

suarezn

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Feb 3, 2002
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I would say the vast majority of people leave with the good intention of returning and petitioning for their children. They also think they will be able to return in a short period of time...once they get here then reality sets in. The pressures of "making it" start and in many instances it takes the person 5+ years to return. If they were married they are most likely divorced by then...The children they left behind barely recognize them and they have gotten used to live a life free of kids and with no responsibility other than sending some money at the end of the month.

There's really nobody to blame here other than life itself. Those of you who say that you wouldn't leave weren't born in The DR and have not spent a life with little or no hope. It's always easy to talk about other people when you're not in the situation yourself. Like I said before, I've seen it happen in my own family and I can't say that my sister is a bad mother, but she had an opportunity and took it. We've never touched the subject, but I'm sure she has some regrets as any mother would, but I would think she'd say she would do it again if she had to.
 

Snuffy

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Yea sure sweep it under the rug and never talk about it. That is really the way things are here. So, no one ever questions...."Hey, was it really worth it?" Wouldn't it be nice if you could save a family member from making a possible bad choice in life by simply talking about it. And what exactly is it in the USA that you are chasing...what is "little or no hope"....what exactly do you think is the life of a lower middle to middle class dominican. What do they lack? Have you ever seen the movie Sophia's Choice. If not rent it.

Here is a question for you. Mother goes to USA and six months later child dies in an accident. She never see him alive again. So tell me....what value do you then place on the six months? Here is another one for those who's mothers and fathers are no longer with us. If you have the chance to spend one day with your mother.....what value would you place on that? My answer is that it is priceless. One day, one hour, one minute.

Again, your life is rich here....it is in your families and friends and the land and the sea...the excellent fruits and vegetables....cerveza on the corner watching the people go by....etc. ...etc...