macocael said:
NALs, you know I respect you and I Like your posts becuase you think about them, but that has got to be one of the worst statements you have ever posted. Procreate at alarming Rates? What on earth are you talking about!? What, the voodoo-besotted "African devils" cant control their urges so they procreate like rabbits? Do you realize how racist that is? Millions of Haitians in DR? There is not even a million. There are maybe 800,000. Consult FLACSO. Dont get carried away. YOu who are normally so careful of your facts and figures should be especially cautious here because this is a volatile subject and should be handled diplomatically. This kind of exaggerated generalizing just fuels the demagogic rhetoric of Castillo and his Nationalist gang, who have really made a mess of things vis a vis the handling of this grave problem. DR is the victim of a huge influx of Haitians as a result of many factors: the ineptitude of the international community in helping Haiti overcome its problems; the fallout from the expulsion of Aristide and the economic spiralling down of the Haitian economy; the collusion of the army and other sectors such as the agriculturalists, ingenios, and construction in human trafficking of migrant laborers; and also the fact that DOminicans refuse to work as peons, or swing hammers in the construction of the new skyscrapers, or swing machetes para tumbar la ca?a. They instead prefer to pull up stakes and move to the cities or abroad (where they are often treated with the same prejudice and misunderstanding that Haitians experience here. IN Florida, Dominicans cut cane).
Secondly, those of you who wish to safeguard Dominican culture and society against the incursions of the Haitians overlook the fact that the culture of this island is very much a blend of the two nations, and this blending continues apace. Down to the very use of the word Tiguere, which would not be pronounced that way were it not for the Haitians (see Lipe Callado's book), we are living in the midst of a constantly changing and blending, vivid, transformative culture. Haitians and Dominicans have far more in common than, say, a Dominican and a Gallego from Spain, or an Argentinian, or Bolivian, or Mexican, or C0lombian, or Venezuelan. We are Caribbean brothers, we share a small island. We need to help each other, not hate each other.
Vis a vis the hospital stats: those are extremely suspect. First of all the new social security law, which went into effect in October, makes it much harder for these people to get service inthe country's hospitals. They have no papers and there is no provision for them to pay for the services; they are routinely denied service. Secondly this is the second report from a hospital alleging the same basic problem (the first was here in the capital) and these findings are not examined, they are just reported as though they were self evident: they are not in fact. The doctors who make these charges are speaking on their own behalf and do so because they do not want to treat these people, despite the hippocratic oath that should govern their practice (I have been involved in various programs to sensitize these doctors and discuss the problems openly, so I know whereof I speak). The fact is these are just stories, they are exaggerated and they have not ever been scrutinized properly. This is propaganda, not statistical truth.
Ya no hables mas tonter?as.
(sorry NALs, dont wish to be harsh, I should tone it down, but this problem requires diplomacy, sympathy and humanity. Let's all try to be a little more understanding, a little more reflective, and a little more skeptical of the politically motivated statements of a few people who present themselves as authorities but never back their claims up properly. We need to cooperate, not militate.)
Maco, I will break this response into several chuncks:
1. The rate the Haitian population is growing in Haiti is alarming. Currently it's at 2.60% annually, where as the DR is at 1.73%. For comparison, Panama is at 1.60% and Puerto Rico at 0.4%.
The global average is 1.14%, so yes, I think it's alarming.
How is Haiti going to feed those extra mouths? Haiti already has the 3rd highest rate of hunger in the world, the highest anywhere outside of Africa according to the United Nations, where are they going to feed those extra mouth from?
Haiti's population growth rate is as alarming as is its infant mortality rate at 71.65 death per 1,000 live births. This is use as an indicator of health in any given country. By comparison, DR's infant mortality rate is 28.25 death per 1,000 live births and the global average is 48.87 death per 1,000 live births.
Haiti's life expectancy is 53 years, whereas the DR is 72, Venezuela is 75, the US is 78 and the world average is 65. Yes, Haiti's low life expectancy is alarming.
What's the definition of alarming? To fill with fear. To give warning to.
Those figures are fearsome by the sheer nature of what will happen?
It is alarming and something must be done to curve this for the sake of Haiti and the Haitians themselves. If nothing is done, Haiti will self implode beyond what it has already and the Haitians in the DR will become even more marginalized as the amount of resources that reaches them will not be enough to supply the mere basics.
This sounds alarming to me. And no, it has nothing to do with their race, it's just the facts available that creates fear in the minds of those who worry of what will happen to Haiti and it's people if they don't get into the development trayectory soon. Personally, I don't think Haiti can withstand another 50 years of explosive population growth, miserable life expectancy, and all the other problems they have many times worst than in the DR and sometimes, they have problems in their country that are unkown in the DR.
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2. I agree Haiti needs help, but the DR is already helping Haiti the most it possibly can. The DR has trade agreements with Haiti, flow of goods is unhindered at the border. Despite the illegality, the DR manages to support the presence of millions of Haitians (we can dispute the actual number into oblivion, I'm going by what the official data states, not speculation) which helps alleviate some of the pressures in Haiti, the DR has been asking for help for Haiti at international organizations such as the UN, what else do people want?
The DR is Haiti's best friend, despite the tomoultous history between the two nations. Now, if every other North American, Central American, and Caribbean nations would have been as generous and patient as the DR has been, maybe Haiti would have been out of it's downward spiral along time ago. The DR cannot help Haiti by itself, a strong country needs to take a lead in this since the DR also needs help, albeit much less help than Haiti does.
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3. Compare any two country on earth and you are bound to find similarity, after all, all nations are filled with people. However, the differences is what makes each country the unique society that it is.
Having said this, there are many differences between DR and Haiti as there are similarities.
Haiti's masses speak Creole, the elites French and English. In the DR, it's all Spanish, different dialects, of course, but Spanish is Spanish.
Haiti's recognized religions are Catholicism and Vodu, DR is only Catholicism, albeit all religions are tolerated and a segment of the population believes in brujeria.
Haiti is a much more homogenous country than the DR is.
Haiti has a different array of flora, mostly altered by intensive human activity, whereas in the DR there are vast areas of forest, some of which is still virgin.
Haiti is one of the least visited countries on earth, tomoultous at the moment, with an economy that is extremely fragile and not growing by much. DR is one of the most visited countries in the Caribbean, politically stable, economically growing and strengthening.
I can go on and on pin pointing why there is a border and why the two countries exist.
Then there is the question of why did you chose to live in the DR instead of Haiti? If they are both similar, why was Haiti not your choice?
Obviously, there is something different about the DR that inclined you towards choosing her over Haiti as a place to live. What was it?
These two countries are only similar in the sense that all countries of the world are similar, but they are NOT the same much in the way the US is NOT the same as Canada or Angola is NOT the same a The Congo.
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4. Economics is the one thing that influences people more than anything else. Once this is settled, other things take priority but until this has not been fulfilled, this will dominate the thoughts and decision of a person.
First one must think of what is economically sound for a country, a community, a people and then comes everything else.
I'm sure at the end of the day, you make sure your personal finances are in check. You will never dare become reckless with your finances, because without that there is nothing. No time or means of entertainment, or enjoying art, or traveling, or eating, or anything.
So too must a nation and for this reason, economics comes above all else, at least in my book.
Protect your economy and things will begin to work the way they should, don't protect your economy and watch anarchy and breakdowns occur.
Protecting is not always shutting the borders or anything, it's making decisions that are economically sound at the time. If a country is in need of cheaper labor because labor has gotten too expensive, then open the border. If labor has gotten so cheap the rich can get their coats so cheap that the one who made it starves in the process, despite working like a mule, then close the border, encourage economic growth and watch the wages rise.
Obviously, it's not as simple as that and I can get extremely detailed in this department but for the sake of discussion I'll end it here.
Oh, and please, don't use the race card with me. The only people I see using that are those who assume that just because I'm Dominican or anything and I say something that may not be "politically correct" at the time that it must mean I'm a racist or a sexist or whatever. I'm not!
If I've said something, then there are many many others who have thought it! Somebody needs the guts to say what others are only thinking and refuse to say anything out of fear of repercussions.
Haiti's population growth rate is alarming. To say otherwise is to agree that the future and young generations of Haiti deserve to starve and live a life of misery.
I'm sorry, but I am not of that mindset. I cannot look in the eyes of a defenseless little child and tell him, I want you and your future generations to starve to death by not caring of the relation between available resources and population growth.
I'm sorry, I can't do that.
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5. Regarding culture, I recognize cultures need to change and evolve, it's the nature of things. That's how Dominican culture came to be, anyways.
This is not what worries me, but everything else here is.
-NALs
