Well as we all know the price of oil has risin to about $70 a barrel. Providing alternative fuels for the DR will elimate roughly 20% of the oil consumption in the DR what type of fuel/energy would most benefit the DR and how could we get these materials out to help power the DR ?
- Thread starter Joshua R
- Start date
The Future Of Dominican Energy
On a less fantastic note...however, nothing cost-effective in the short-medium term...
Fact: The DR has petroleum/gas deposits in its own territory, which have not been developed because of Big Oil interests.
The DR could take the route of other countries and invest heavily to develop their own petroleum resources. Just recently, Brasil inaugurated a deep ocean/off shore platform with their own technology, at a cost of over USD600 million, and successfully drilled to an oil deposit over 6000 meters below the ocean floor. Cuba has just signed a joint venture with the People's Republic of China to exploit oil deposits on its northern shore (Bahamas)....
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Fact: The DR has petroleum/gas deposits in its own territory, which have not been developed because of Big Oil interests.
The DR could take the route of other countries and invest heavily to develop their own petroleum resources. Just recently, Brasil inaugurated a deep ocean/off shore platform with their own technology, at a cost of over USD600 million, and successfully drilled to an oil deposit over 6000 meters below the ocean floor. Cuba has just signed a joint venture with the People's Republic of China to exploit oil deposits on its northern shore (Bahamas)....
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-How about tough gov?policies about enery saving ?
I know it sounds naive... but it is a start... bombillos de bajo consumo... stuff like that..
-Then how about solar/wind generator ?
I heard it is quite expensive, so maybe it won?t be a great idea...
-Nuclear ? down here I wouldn?t risk it...
In a way, the high cost of oil is a filter, because it forces to select the use of oil... people can?t just spend like crazy anymore...
I am not very well informed, but that debate is very interesting...
I know it sounds naive... but it is a start... bombillos de bajo consumo... stuff like that..
-Then how about solar/wind generator ?
I heard it is quite expensive, so maybe it won?t be a great idea...
-Nuclear ? down here I wouldn?t risk it...
In a way, the high cost of oil is a filter, because it forces to select the use of oil... people can?t just spend like crazy anymore...
I am not very well informed, but that debate is very interesting...
Its Amazing and the Answer isnt in "Energy Saving "
Brazil found oil ? Well it will be for sale to the yanks at high return because
"Brazil generates 43.8 percent of its power from renewable energy sources, including hydroelectricity, ethanol Ethanol and biodiesel are already making significant contributions to the nation's trade surplus, boosting the country's economy and reducing its reliance on foreign oil. "
http://www.wired.com/news/planet/0,2782,67523,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_5
And Im sure that all of you DR1'ers saw the article on the Biodiesel refining invention (American Inventors) ........
In My Book 1 +1 = 2
For things to change here , the Demand for Oil has to Cease but it won't.
It will decline slightly and gradually and to make up for declining sales, prices will go up to cover costs. Its Simple business 101
Think about it . 2 Oil men in Power, Prices going through the roof after invading Iraq to keep oil prices "down". The poor Oil companies with their highest profits ever , after a year of natural disasters and rising Crude costs !
What more do Americans need order to stand up and impeach this clown ? Get out of your SUV's and 4 car families and do something. Stop complaining about oil prices that the rest of the world has been paying for a few years .......
Its amazing how American Ingenuity and prowness and high moral standards made this country the power that it is but they allow themselves to be snowed by this guy when it is so obvious to the rest of the world. And Imagine, they impeached Nixon for Moral Standards.?
There, got that off my chest......... In Short, this country should invest in Biodiesel. We have the land, the farming experience and the climate. There are also ways to extend battery life 2 or 3 times the normal that we don't use here so coupled with Biodiesel , solar and wind power we would muddle along just fine and contribute very little pollution to the also declining ozone layer and global warming.........
We keep debating these things. I hope that Oil prices go to 500 A barrel. Then the Other things will become cost effective and necessary. rather than investing in silly projects like Underground Subways here. Invest in Biodiesel, Throw a few hundred thousand Pesos at 500 Farmers and you will have more corn than you can process ! And Profit to boot !
Brazil found oil ? Well it will be for sale to the yanks at high return because
"Brazil generates 43.8 percent of its power from renewable energy sources, including hydroelectricity, ethanol Ethanol and biodiesel are already making significant contributions to the nation's trade surplus, boosting the country's economy and reducing its reliance on foreign oil. "
http://www.wired.com/news/planet/0,2782,67523,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_5
And Im sure that all of you DR1'ers saw the article on the Biodiesel refining invention (American Inventors) ........
In My Book 1 +1 = 2
For things to change here , the Demand for Oil has to Cease but it won't.
It will decline slightly and gradually and to make up for declining sales, prices will go up to cover costs. Its Simple business 101
Think about it . 2 Oil men in Power, Prices going through the roof after invading Iraq to keep oil prices "down". The poor Oil companies with their highest profits ever , after a year of natural disasters and rising Crude costs !
What more do Americans need order to stand up and impeach this clown ? Get out of your SUV's and 4 car families and do something. Stop complaining about oil prices that the rest of the world has been paying for a few years .......
Its amazing how American Ingenuity and prowness and high moral standards made this country the power that it is but they allow themselves to be snowed by this guy when it is so obvious to the rest of the world. And Imagine, they impeached Nixon for Moral Standards.?
There, got that off my chest......... In Short, this country should invest in Biodiesel. We have the land, the farming experience and the climate. There are also ways to extend battery life 2 or 3 times the normal that we don't use here so coupled with Biodiesel , solar and wind power we would muddle along just fine and contribute very little pollution to the also declining ozone layer and global warming.........
We keep debating these things. I hope that Oil prices go to 500 A barrel. Then the Other things will become cost effective and necessary. rather than investing in silly projects like Underground Subways here. Invest in Biodiesel, Throw a few hundred thousand Pesos at 500 Farmers and you will have more corn than you can process ! And Profit to boot !
Ever See that Movie with Bruce Willis where they have to band together to blow the approaching Giant Meteor out of the sky before it collides with earth? So they build a Rocket a tunnelling machine and a nuclear Bomb to blow the Sucker up . Of course Bruce dies heroically in the end.
Can We do this for the Oil crisis ? But Bush will be the Willis character.......
Then we can sell Corn and Cane to the states !
For you that don't know which Movie : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120591/
Can We do this for the Oil crisis ? But Bush will be the Willis character.......
Then we can sell Corn and Cane to the states !
For you that don't know which Movie : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120591/
EXXON-Mobil reported "less than expected profits" but still earned a record breaking (for them) profit of US$8+ billion!!!!
Anyway. Severe restriction must be put in place. Government must use the money it makes on gas sales to provide incentives for re-useable energy.
Total Privatization of energy?? I mean everything from generation to distribution. Get politics out of energy.
I amnot sure that there are sufficient available lands to successfully satisfy the needs for bio diesel crops, but then, maybe there is...Can you make bio-diesel out of sugar cane? Would it be woth while to change from sugar cane to more mechanized crops like corn or grain sorghum and make feeds and bio-diesel? Hum?
Later,
HB
Anyway. Severe restriction must be put in place. Government must use the money it makes on gas sales to provide incentives for re-useable energy.
Total Privatization of energy?? I mean everything from generation to distribution. Get politics out of energy.
I amnot sure that there are sufficient available lands to successfully satisfy the needs for bio diesel crops, but then, maybe there is...Can you make bio-diesel out of sugar cane? Would it be woth while to change from sugar cane to more mechanized crops like corn or grain sorghum and make feeds and bio-diesel? Hum?
Later,
HB
maybe not bio diesel HB but definite ethanol and add 15% to gasoline. Soyabean is an excellent source for making bio diesel, many trucks are switching to this renewable source here in Canada.
http://www.biodiesel.org/
http://www.greenfuels.org/biodiesel/index.htm
Fuels derived from renewable biological resources which are converted into methyl esters for use in diesel engines are known as biodiesel fuels.
Animal fats and virgin and recycled vegetable oils derived from crops such as soybeans, canola, corn and sunflowers can be used in the production of biodiesel fuel.
Vegetable oil was used as a diesel fuel as early as 1900, when Rudolf Diesel demonstrated that a diesel engine could run on peanut oil.
It should be pointed out, however, that today's diesel engines are not designed to run on fuels with such a high viscosity as vegetable oil. Biodiesel is similar in viscosity and other properties to petroleum diesel, which makes its use in today's diesel engines usable without any engine modifications. Biodiesel can either be used in its pure state or can be blended with conventional diesel fuel derived from petroleum.
http://www.biodiesel.org/
http://www.greenfuels.org/biodiesel/index.htm
Fuels derived from renewable biological resources which are converted into methyl esters for use in diesel engines are known as biodiesel fuels.
Animal fats and virgin and recycled vegetable oils derived from crops such as soybeans, canola, corn and sunflowers can be used in the production of biodiesel fuel.
Vegetable oil was used as a diesel fuel as early as 1900, when Rudolf Diesel demonstrated that a diesel engine could run on peanut oil.
It should be pointed out, however, that today's diesel engines are not designed to run on fuels with such a high viscosity as vegetable oil. Biodiesel is similar in viscosity and other properties to petroleum diesel, which makes its use in today's diesel engines usable without any engine modifications. Biodiesel can either be used in its pure state or can be blended with conventional diesel fuel derived from petroleum.
For those who want to follow the Brazilian example on ethanol, namely substituting corn ethanol for petroleum derived fuels, here's some figures from the top of my beret (of course with many asumptions, and rounding out figures....) First, here's a few facts... About 15 bushels of corn are requiered to produce 1 barrel of ethanol. The best agricultural land (1A) can expect an average yield of 150 bushels of corn per acre, which translates to 10 barrels of ethanol per acre. Considering that the DR is currently consuming about 160.000 barrels/day of petroleum products (roughly 60 million barrels/year), and considering that the DR's total arable land is not more that 1 million hectares (2.471.000 acres), the production of 60 million barrels of ethanol would require the cultivation of around 6 million acres of land (only one crop per year), which is almost three times the total arable land of the DR...
Brazil is also engaged in the production of ethanol from sugar cane. In fact, car manufacturers in Brazil (which almost all the major car companies in the world have operations there) produce cars that use sugar cane ethanol as fuel.Mirador said:
Here is an articl from the Washington Post regarding Brazil's sugar cane ethanol success:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/17/AR2005061701440.html
-NALs
It seems to me that ethanol via sugar cane might be a viable alternative. Especially since MIRADOR has put his thumb on just what I was thinking about.
NOW, peanuts, which were eliminated from the
Dominican Agricultural system years ago by Bernardo Vega and his associates at SID (it was a lot cheaper and easier to import cheap, crude, peanut oil from the world commodity market), can make a comeback. NOw, that crop, that still has an technological base (people know how to sow it and harvest it) could well have a comeback.
Plus a subsidiary industry of home and business collection of used cooking oil.
This could work!
HB
NOW, peanuts, which were eliminated from the
Dominican Agricultural system years ago by Bernardo Vega and his associates at SID (it was a lot cheaper and easier to import cheap, crude, peanut oil from the world commodity market), can make a comeback. NOw, that crop, that still has an technological base (people know how to sow it and harvest it) could well have a comeback.
Plus a subsidiary industry of home and business collection of used cooking oil.
This could work!
HB
Maybe we dont
Maybe in the DR there ISNT Enough arable land to fully supply as it stans NOW .But Combined with cut backs in MPG and refining innovations I think that at last there is a possibility for the future. Darn , we "adapt" better here than many places to changes (re:shortages in electricity fluctuating currencies and hurricane destruction) than most places ....(especially westernized nations , not mentioning any names.) You mean that we can't find ways to turn unarable land into arable land via greenhouses , reconstruction or otherwise? Especially while labour costs are low ? We would rather sit, make excuses and toss numbers as to why it WONT work rather than try ? Find ways ? Thats exactly what is happening in America. "Viable = make sufficient profits"
I saw on a documentarty only this week that a biodiesel facility would need an area of 100 Miles by 100 Miles in Size in order to supply electricity for ALL OF AMERICA. 300 Million Heavy Useres versus here 9 Million Light Users
No , I say that it is the answer and we better get the horse hooked up to the wagon before we spend 5 years wondering when we can start our cars again due to no fuels .
Bottom line, It is working in Brazil which is still a relatively emerging country .
But without the defeatest attitude and God bless them that someone had a vision and sold it to the people ..........and now they dont really care about oil shortages or gas prices...........
its ALL IN THE Attitude that we take ..........
Invest in a war but not in the future .Come On
Maybe in the DR there ISNT Enough arable land to fully supply as it stans NOW .But Combined with cut backs in MPG and refining innovations I think that at last there is a possibility for the future. Darn , we "adapt" better here than many places to changes (re:shortages in electricity fluctuating currencies and hurricane destruction) than most places ....(especially westernized nations , not mentioning any names.) You mean that we can't find ways to turn unarable land into arable land via greenhouses , reconstruction or otherwise? Especially while labour costs are low ? We would rather sit, make excuses and toss numbers as to why it WONT work rather than try ? Find ways ? Thats exactly what is happening in America. "Viable = make sufficient profits"
I saw on a documentarty only this week that a biodiesel facility would need an area of 100 Miles by 100 Miles in Size in order to supply electricity for ALL OF AMERICA. 300 Million Heavy Useres versus here 9 Million Light Users
No , I say that it is the answer and we better get the horse hooked up to the wagon before we spend 5 years wondering when we can start our cars again due to no fuels .
Bottom line, It is working in Brazil which is still a relatively emerging country .
But without the defeatest attitude and God bless them that someone had a vision and sold it to the people ..........and now they dont really care about oil shortages or gas prices...........
its ALL IN THE Attitude that we take ..........
Invest in a war but not in the future .Come On
By the way, did you hear the news today where that the United Nation?s Energy Resource Organization (UNERO) has established that the entire world?s hydrocarbon reserves are an inalienable resource of mankind, and from now on will be under the control of the new World Hydrocarbon Energy Authority (UN-WHEA)? That petroleum production will be allocated according to the number of inhabitants of each country?. Say, your country has 5% of the world?s population, so you will be assigned 5% of the world?s hydrocarbon production, not 25%?...
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I posted this link to the environment forum a few months ago. It is a must-read if you are debating bio-fuels. http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/12/06/worse-than-fossil-fuel/
Very interesting.Chris said:
Changing demand for fossil fuels from the current levels means that development must be changed as well. One of the reason why so much fossil fuel is being consumed is due to the car-centric developments that are taking place not just across the US and Canada, but around the world. In order to reduce such demand, the incentive must be there.
Thus, it leaves me with this question: Aside from imposing new development regulation of higher densities in order to make new development more walkable (thus eliminating the need to drive), what will be done with the current infrastructural developments, cities, and suburbs around the world that are already in place and the main fault for such fast gobbling of fossil fuels?
In other words, what are the alternatives?
Any suggestions anyone?
-NALs
Chris said:
Big Oil has conspired to control the supply of oil by promoting the myth of the organic origins of hydrocarbons. Actually, hydrocarbon deposits are much more plentiful than what is officially announced. There are many recent scientific papers indicating the non-organic origins of hydrocarbons, including evidence, like the recent production (over 400 wells and fields worldwide) of oil from igneous rocks, where hydrocarbons have been found by drilling into crystalline basement granitic shield rocks.
http://www.citebase.org/cgi-bin/citations?id=oai:arXiv.org:physics/9610011
http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug25/articles7.htm
http://www.oilempire.us/abiotic.html
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I can certainly agree with NALs and JoJo, they make sense. This is why energy in the DR needs to be taken out of the hands of the politicians and put into private hands. (Yeah, I know, they aren't so good either)
My thinking is that once removed from the political scheme of things, other issues, like profit, responsability and long-term thinking, will come into play. While I do not think that greenhouses dotting the landscape of the desert areas of the DR will be feasible, there are surely underdeveloped areas that can be effectively developed for use in renewable energy production.
MMMMMm,, the DR, with 8+ million has what? Maybe a little more than one tenth of one percent of the world's population, so we get ten barrels of oil a day? HEHEHE (Yeah, I know, it's a lot more than that.)
HB
My thinking is that once removed from the political scheme of things, other issues, like profit, responsability and long-term thinking, will come into play. While I do not think that greenhouses dotting the landscape of the desert areas of the DR will be feasible, there are surely underdeveloped areas that can be effectively developed for use in renewable energy production.
MMMMMm,, the DR, with 8+ million has what? Maybe a little more than one tenth of one percent of the world's population, so we get ten barrels of oil a day? HEHEHE (Yeah, I know, it's a lot more than that.)
HB
The whole landscape is scary, mainly because we do not know who is telling us what. If you listen to the true pessimists, oil has peaked somewhere in the ?70's. If you listen to the governments, oil is going to peak sometime in the future. If you listen to the environmentalists, we should not be using the stuff anyway. If you listing to the other cadre of environmentalists, we're going to use all food sources in order to make bio-fuels and push ourselves a little deeper into the doodoo.
I researched this in order to write some for the Green Team blog, but never finished the research as I could not find sources that I could trust. The best I could come up with, is that bio-fuels are at best a solution for communities, short term travel and local travel.
I researched this in order to write some for the Green Team blog, but never finished the research as I could not find sources that I could trust. The best I could come up with, is that bio-fuels are at best a solution for communities, short term travel and local travel.