the rich must pay more....bull$h!t

billyidol

Banned
Feb 9, 2004
334
10
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Ive had many personal conversations with friends and co-workers about the following!

im somehow abusing the dom rep people because i obtained cheap DR labor to build my house! The premise to my co-workers argument is that because I HAVE MORE MONEY i should PAY MORE!
My response is that it; is my fault that ive worked hard in the countries ive worked in...and it is my fault that ive accrued a fair level of wealth and it is my fault that i have chosen to build and spend my wealth in the DR .It is however NOT MY FAULT that the DR economy is so weak, and that my house was infact constructed off of the blood sweat and plantana of DR nationals (my DR contractor pays them their lowly wage in accordance with government rules)..a wage that i would NEVER work for.i also signed a contract stating the price i would pay ect ect. So many people have attacked me for 'building and occupying a mansion with big huge gates whilst the others (DR nationals)rot outside' in their 4 metre *6 metre hovels.
Must i hand over my wealth simply because im richer than they are...?????These people to my understanding have been surviving for generations on peas rice and plantane (sic)and nowhere in the world would anybody willingly accept being asked to pay more, simply because they have more in the bank. what about the money ive brought to this country and intend to spend at DR shops.....???????...every week $1000-1500 p/mth into the dominican economy ...plus bank investments!
This is a market not unlike any other...people should think about what this means and stop being such do-gooders
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,316
3,122
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billyidol said:
Ive had many personal conversations with friends and co-workers about the following!

im somehow abusing the dom rep people because i obtained cheap DR labor to build my house! The premise to my co-workers argument is that because I HAVE MORE MONEY i should PAY MORE!
My response is that it; is my fault that ive worked hard in the countries ive worked in...and it is my fault that ive accrued a fair level of wealth and it is my fault that i have chosen to build and spend my wealth in the DR .It is however NOT MY FAULT that the DR economy is so weak, and that my house was infact constructed off of the blood sweat and plantana of DR nationals (my DR contractor pays them their lowly wage in accordance with government rules)..a wage that i would NEVER work for.i also signed a contract stating the price i would pay ect ect. So many people have attacked me for 'building and occupying a mansion with big huge gates whilst the others (DR nationals)rot outside' in their 4 metre *6 metre hovels.
Must i hand over my wealth simply because im richer than they are...?????These people to my understanding have been surviving for generations on peas rice and plantane (sic)and nowhere in the world would anybody willingly accept being asked to pay more, simply because they have more in the bank. what about the money ive brought to this country and intend to spend at DR shops.....???????...every week $1000-1500 p/mth into the dominican economy ...plus bank investments!
This is a market not unlike any other...people should think about what this means and stop being such do-gooders
Billyidol,

You know what is the problem in all of this?

MANY people don't want to accept the fact that the DR IS a poor country BECAUSE it's development stalled for many years, PERIOD!!!

Ordinary people always want to blame someone for their wrong doings or problems, well that is someone other than themselves.

They are quick to blame the rich for problems and almost always fail to THANK the rich for the jobs created, the money spent in the economy, etc etc.

The problem of the DR has always been the problem of the poor. They created their own problems by having too many children, not planning their finances, protesting for electricity they are NOT entitled to and NOT protesting for more education or public health.

They are the one's stealing electricity because they want things even when they can't afford it. They are the one's having too many kids and then finding themselves not having enough money to feed the mouths they created. They are the one's spending money on beer and prostitutes when it was suppose to go to fix their homes or pay for their kids school books. They are the one's failing their kids by ALLOWING them to drop out of school before they even reach the secondary. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM.

Despite all this, many of the poor always have money available for beer and rum and hookers.

Oh, but the poor are so "nice". They smile at the foreigners with so much grace and they are so nice. Never mind that they know the foreigner has a pocket full of Jacksons and Benjamins. Oh, that had nothing to do with the so nice attitude....

Here is a quick reality check:

The rich and middle class are the only one's being taxed. The poor don't pay a dime because the government which is controlled by the "elites" decided to give poor Dominicans a break from the drudgery of paying taxes when they have other things to worry about.

The government controlled by the "elites" has gone through plenty of pain and aches to secure foreign investment in tourism and free trade zone, so the poor can have a means of making money. This so called "elitist" government has invested in the infrastructure of the country as best it can, building ports and expanding highways and new airports to support the growing economy, so the poor don't have to continue starving.

This so called "elitist" government has done quite a lot for the poor masses. Look at what other governments such as Haiti's has done for their people, with similar resources as the DR. MANY people don't see that.

To them, the rich are all evil and corrupt. They complain that politicians don't do nothing for the Dominican public. They complain while they are riding on a newly resurfaced and expanded highway which cut a once 3 hour ride down to 1.5 hours. Oh, but to them that highway means nothing.

They complain if the "elite" controlled government builds something and they complain if nothing is built. They complain when the government want to attract foreign investment and complain when it loses some. They complain when things are good and complain when they are bad.

That's all they do, complain regardless of what. They protest for free electricity and NOT for education or health care. They ignore the hundreds of thousands of jobs created because of government initiative in attracting foreign investment. They ignore all of that.

Now they want to tax the rich into oblivion. Oh, I guess that will solve everything now! :ermm:

-NALs:tired:
 
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Chris

Gold
Oct 21, 2002
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I agree fully! Give 'em cake!

Btw, Nals, I've taken a quick copy of your post before you can edit it to profess love for the Haitianos or something equally abhorrent. If nothing else told us where you stand, this post does. Btw, you're talking about a highway... which one is that? I've not seen that one here in this country.

Sometimes I really miss Cccccccc! and tomorrow I'll pay for this post because I'll have to clean up the junk. Goodnight!
 
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NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,316
3,122
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Chris said:
I agree fully! Give 'em cake!

Btw, Nals, I've taken a quick copy of your post before you can edit it to profess love for the Haitianos or something equally abhorrent. If nothing else told us where you stand, this post does. Btw, you're talking about a highway... which one is that? I've not seen that one here in this country.

Sometimes I really miss Cccccccc!
Were you around on the days when the Duarte highway was a mere carreterita of 2 lanes????

Maybe you have, maybe not. But if you have, you should know well what I was referring to.

Regarding where I stand, I think it has been obvious way before this post.

-NALs
 

billyidol

Banned
Feb 9, 2004
334
10
18
NALs said:
Billyidol,

You know what is the problem in all of this?

MANY people don't want to accept the fact that the DR IS a poor country BECAUSE it's development stalled for many years, PERIOD!!!

Ordinary people always want to blame someone for their wrong doings or problems, well that is someone other than themselves.

They are quick to blame the rich for problems and almost always fail to THANK the rich for the jobs created, the money spent in the economy, etc etc.

The problem of the DR has always been the problem of the poor. They created their own problems by having too many children, not planning their finances, protesting for electricity they are NOT entitled to and NOT protesting for more education or public health.

They are the one's stealing electricity because they want things even when they can't afford it. They are the one's having too many kids and then finding themselves not having enough money to feed the mouths they created. They are the one's spending money on beer and prostitutes when it was suppose to go to fix their homes or pay for their kids school books. They are the one's failing their kids by ALLOWING them to drop out of school before they even reach the secondary. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM.

Despite all this, many of the poor always have money available for beer and rum and hookers.

Oh, but the poor are so "nice". They smile at the foreigners with so much grace and they are so nice. Never mind that they know the foreigner has a pocket full of Jacksons and Benjamins. Oh, that had nothing to do with the so nice attitude....

Here is a quick reality check:

The rich and middle class are the only one's being taxed. The poor don't pay a dime because the government which is controlled by the "elites" decided to give poor Dominicans a break from the drudgery of paying taxes when they have other things to worry about.

The government controlled by the "elites" has gone through plenty of pain and aches to secure foreign investment in tourism and free trade zone, so the poor can have a means of making money. This so called "elitist" government has invested in the infrastructure of the country as best it can, building ports and expanding highways and new airports to support the growing economy, so the poor don't have to continue starving.

This so called "elitist" government has done quite a lot for the poor masses. Look at what other governments such as Haiti's has done for their people, with similar resources as the DR. MANY people don't see that.

To them, the rich are all evil and corrupt. They complain that politicians don't do nothing for the Dominican public. They complain while they are riding on a newly resurfaced and expanded highway which cut a once 3 hour ride down to 1.5 hours. Oh, but to them that highway means nothing.

They complain if the "elite" controlled government builds something and they complain if nothing is built. They complain when the government want to attract foreign investment and complain when it loses some. They complain when things are good and complain when they are bad.

That's all they do, complain regardless of what. They protest for free electricity and NOT for education or health care. They ignore the hundreds of thousands of jobs created because of government initiative in attracting foreign investment. They ignore all of that.

Now they want to tax the rich into oblivion. Oh, I guess that will solve everything now! :ermm:

-NALs:tired:



yes i agree, within the country i live in (of which i am not a national) i have to listen to
spliff smokin' JAH worshippers talk about how the SYSTEM DONE THEM WRONG.
....BULL$h!t
education will save you, and it is available in this particular country...but no all they wanna do is hit the 'grass' and blame the rich. i have learnt; get into life as best as you can, stop blaming others ect ect!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

fightingirish

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Dec 8, 2005
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For all the poor-bashing and touting of education that is being done by Mr. Billy Idol in this thread, one might think he would have learned to spell "etc."
 

jrf

Bronze
Jan 9, 2005
1,020
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38
Chris said:
I agree fully! Give 'em cake!

Btw, Nals, I've taken a quick copy of your post before you can edit it to profess love for the Haitianos or something equally abhorrent. If nothing else told us where you stand, this post does. Btw, you're talking about a highway... which one is that? I've not seen that one here in this country.

Sometimes I really miss Cccccccc! and tomorrow I'll pay for this post because I'll have to clean up the junk. Goodnight!


What the he** is that? Racism at it's best and the best indication of ignorance.

ddddddddddddduh
 

mrmagic

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Nov 25, 2003
115
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fightingirish said:
For all the poor-bashing and touting of education that is being done by Mr. Billy Idol in this thread, one might think he would have learned to spell "etc."


by the way ...IS THAT HOW YOU SPELL 'ETC'... I BELIEVE THE CORRECT WAY TO SPELL IT IS 'etcetera'....you my friend NEED TO BRUSH UP ON YOUR SPELLING...'ETC' IS AN ABBREVIATION AND IT IS NOT THE WAY TO SPELL 'ETC' AS YOU CLAIM.....SEE YOU IN CLASS
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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jrf said:
What the he** is that? Racism at it's best and the best indication of ignorance.

ddddddddddddduh
I'm sorry jrf. That was a very cynical and kneejerk comment and I guess you need to know the history of the posters and their values to understand it. I tried to illustrate the ludicrousness of the previous two posts, by being even more ludicrous and over the top. Most people who know me, or have read my posts in the past, would understand that in context.

It obviously did not work for you - so, I'll try again.

The 'give em cake' comment is an illustration and comes from the beginning days of the French Revolution. Marie Antoinette, the leader at the time, was told that the 3rd class had no bread to eat, there was hunger, poverty and despair in the country while the leaders lived in excessive luxury and taxed the poor into desperate straits to maintain the excessive lifestyle. So, she was singularly unconcerned with the happenings of the day and with the state of the people that she was leading. She said: "If they have no more bread to eat, then give them cake." (My words, I did not consult the history books to be historically correct). Marie Antoinette's head rolled under the guillotine - the hungry masses that had no food, chopped it off!

You'll find the parallels with the DR in that story.

The Haitiano comment was an illustration as well - it is well known that our poster Nals seems to think that Haiti is fully to blame for their own misfortunes. I am of a different and more moderate opinion - so let me rephrase my sentence "equally abhorrent to Nals".

The moral of the story is that the poor is not the blame for their poverty. People do not choose to be born into poverty. They do not choose to be born into a state of having no capacity or education or anyone to emulate to change their lifestyle. They simply do not know how as they have never seen a different lifestyle.

The original poster says that he has managed to amass some money to live a luxurious lifestyle, and more power to him ... His money does not detract from the fact that he completely disregards the poorer people around him, and he goes further, to disrespect the Dominican Republic's poorer people, despite how much or how little he wants to pay for services.

Our poster Nals supports this stance all the way, and both of them blame the poor for being poor. That is like blaming the blind for being blind. This illustrates a serious lack of education and a more serious lack of even simple reading to even attempt to understand our world today. The gap between rich and poor is indeed becoming wider worldwide and the original poster and the poster Nals says: "Give 'em cake and be sure that they use it sparingly and just a little of it mind - and make sure my tax dollars does not pay for that cake... ".

I hope this puts it in perspective for you. I just saw this thread of yours and I wish to invite the original poster and Nals to read it. They may learn something about compassion and lending a helping hand.

http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51682
 
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miguel

I didn't last long...
Jul 2, 2003
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Let me explain...

Chris said:
I'm sorry jrf. That was a very cynical and kneejerk comment and I guess you need to know the history of the posters and their values to understand it. I tried to illustrate the ludicrousness of the previous two posts, by being even more ludicrous and over the top. Most people who know me, or have read my posts in the past, would understand that in context.

The original poster says that he has managed to amass some money to live a luxurious lifestyle, and more power to him ... His money does not detract from the fact that he completely disregards the poorer people around him, and he goes further, to disrespect the Dominican Republic's poorer people, despite how much or how little he wants to pay for services.
jrf, in case you did not understand her explanation, maybe you can understand mine:

The OP is an axx who likes to throw his "riches" all over the place but lack the common sense to understand that when you come to a public site and start saying " I am rich, I have 100k in the bank, it's not my fault they are poor and I am rich, I am building a 5000 rooms mansion, blah blah blah....", that MANY would think that he is a prick.

In time he will find out that NO MATTER how rich he is, MANY here are NOT IMPRESSED. I am more than sure that there are hundreds of members that have much more money than him and are not "throwing" their riches to the "four winds"

He should get some of that money and put it to good use. Getting a tutor would be nice.

Rich+Humble= A person who is liked.
Rich+obnoxious= An axx.

Moderator, feel free to delete. I just needed some "fresh air".
 

jrf

Bronze
Jan 9, 2005
1,020
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Chris, first off I do believe my reaction was a 'kneejerk' one as well. I have read many of your posts and have learned a great deal and do realize that you are quite intelligent. I do applaud you also that you, even with your education and level of intelligence that you have not lost your sense of humour. It is always the next day that I realize that I should have seen the bigger picture.
I will admit I really did not understand the 'let them eat cake' reference which will tell you that I am a little less well read than you.
I appreciate the response. I am glad that you pointed it out and in seeing the big picture I see exactly what you mean and it was very well done.
Thanks.

note: I have posted some pretty stupid threads/responses in the past so thanks for pulling up a good one :)

Miguel, I see what you mean as well. Those that boast that they have usually don't.
Cuidate
 

Chris

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miguel said:
Moderator, feel free to delete. I just needed some "fresh air".

Thanks miguel, for the 'fresh' air.... I get altogether too serious about these things.. And jrf, really, it is not intelligence, it is just my mouth. My mouth has brought me into bigger trouble that all the intelligence put together. I must really learn to close it sometimes. :laugh::laugh:
 

trina

Silver
Jan 3, 2002
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Anybody wonder how this "topic of conversation" between "billy" and his co-workers came up? Seems to me that the only reason why his co-workers would have reason to defend the people of the DR is if "billy" was bragging about his riches again, and bragging about taking advantage of the cheap labour in the DR. In fact, seems to me the only motive behind this post is to tell us, once again how much "wealth" he claims to have...in case some of us missed it his first 163 posts.

I second Miguel's post...pssssssttttt....billy....I'll fill you in on a little secret: we don't care.
 

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
18,948
514
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Sort of strange. i got a different take on the PO's initial post.

He was feeling persecuted by his fellow workers because he did not pay the workers who built his house more than the going wages. His phrasing might not have been that precise, but that is essentially what he said.

And, i am affraid he is right. None of the fabulously wealthy people I know would do it any differently. They make a deal with the builder, pay the builder, and that's that!

Remember, with the 2003-2004 inflation, workers got 30-40 % wage increases. Now the dollar is 40% lower (+/-), but wages have stayed the same or even increased a bit.

Nobody, not even if all of the wealthy were to pay double for their construction jobs, will do away with poverty in one fell swoop.

One of the things i have really liked about Elena Brineman's going away blasts, is that she is telling it like we all know it is!! Education: sucks inthe public schools, inspite of the millions poured into the system...for what you gotta ask. Corruption: Gee, yuh think? This has been the Aquilles heel of the DR since the death of Trujillo. The successful people just know how to go about it better than the wanna be rich. for newcomers or investors, as Brineman says, this is a major turn off, even more than the electricity.

End of rant: the OP feels put upon by his fellow workers for his new house. He shouldn't have to feel this way. He can ask his critics if they want to do something about it. Then we'll see if they put their money where their mouths are...

HB :ermm:
 

Chris

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Hillbilly, I don't think it is only this post that elicits the reaction. There has been a few others. I think trina's post sums it up - that is why this poster gets none of the sympathy that he wants while playing the 'poor little rich guy' violin for all it is worth.

Of course you are right about paying the going rate and of course the rich should not pay more for some reason.

trina said:
Anybody wonder how this "topic of conversation" between "billy" and his co-workers came up? Seems to me that the only reason why his co-workers would have reason to defend the people of the DR is if "billy" was bragging about his riches again, and bragging about taking advantage of the cheap labour in the DR. In fact, seems to me the only motive behind this post is to tell us, once again how much "wealth" he claims to have...in case some of us missed it his first 163 posts.

I second Miguel's post...pssssssttttt....billy....I'll fill you in on a little secret: we don't care.
 

trina

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Besides all this, the guy is full of BS - here's a previous post of his, detailling his "DR budget", http://www.dr1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=400002&postcount=5 - which is a 'little different' from his post here, claiming

what about the money ive brought to this country and intend to spend at DR shops.....???????...every week $1000-1500 p/mth into the dominican economy ...plus bank investments!

he's all talk...busted...
 

twhitehead

Bronze
Nov 1, 2003
618
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poor ol billy

Trina: I think you forgot that good ol billy ain't too bright in math...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Criss Colon
Go read the DR1 "Daily News" for today.
Only 50% make it to the 4th. grade,
22% finish "Grade School",
and only 10% are still around at the end of "High School"!

No wonder no one ever seems to "Get It" when you try to explan some basic ideas to them!

I guess that is why they make such a big deal out of anyone with a college degree,calling them "Licenciado" and all! They must be only a few percentage points of the total population!

CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC CCCCCCCC




did it say what happened to the remaining 18%.....those numbers add up to 82%. maybe the original writer of this article skipped the maths part in school
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#167 11-26-2005, 07:18 AM
twhitehead
Silver Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 195
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyidol
did it say what happened to the remaining 18%.....those numbers add up to 82%. maybe the original writer of this article skipped the maths part in school

Too funny. I knew someone would eventually post this. Shows education is lacking everywhere. P.S Billy Idol - the numbers will never add up to 100
 

trina

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omg...you're right...i'd forgotten that was him...the things that make you go "hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnph"....

if...no IF...he is rich, he inherited it...too bad the smarts weren't handed down instead of the cash.