I witnessed something horrible in Moca...

Inhumane

Larry said:

.... I do know that few people who witnessed the scene cared.

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How come the girl's body was not searched for valuables?





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I am appalled by people in this country how they shun away from their responsibilites as citizens and drivers.

m'frog

Liability.

It takes balls to take a perso to a hospital.

HB

If You Take Someone To The Hospital,You Are Acepting Responsibility

Thats "ONE" reason Dominicans just leave injured ,and dead people, where they fall! If people don't accept responsibility for themselves,what makes you think they will accept responsibility for others???
These can't be the same Dominicans that the people who come and spend a week at an "AI" find so "kind,gentle,loving,and charming" are they??? :cheeky:
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"Buy A Car Larry?

Jungle Behaviour

Criss Colon said:

...These can't be the same Dominicans that the people who come and spend a week at an "AI" find so "kind,gentle,loving,and charming" are they???

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Same people.
Depends on location.
Inside or outside civilization, i.e. AI or DR.

m'frog

I get the impression that 25% of the severe accidents in this country, involve guaguas.
Motoconchos are always in the limelight, but these guaguas are worse. They're usually fleet vehicles, driven by young delinquent maniacs.
They would rather have a head on collision, than lose a fare to another guagua.

Larry said:

I had to spend the day in Moca yesterday and in the middile of the day, I had a few hours to kill.....so I went for a walk.......


For those familiar with the area, I will try to describe where I was so you can visualize the spot. If you were to drive from the north coast over the mountain towards Moca, at the bottom of the mountain, you would take a left. Then, after about another mile, you would come to an intersection. At this intersection, you either turn right towards Santiago or left into Moca. This is where I was.

There is a colmado on the corner here. I crossed the intersection, went into the colmado for a water and crossed back over. Maybe 10 seconds later, about 100 feet behing me in the intersection I heard the screech of brakes and the "smack" of two vehicles crashing.

A gua gua had crashed into a pasola and the young girl (about 16 years old) who was on the pasola (no helmet) was in the middle of the street and was bleeding profusely from her head and mouth. I would guess that she probably lived but she very well may have died from the injuries.

Now, instinctively, I ran back to try to help her. As I arrived, a bunch of guys from the colmado got to her. They picked her unconscious, bleeding body out of the intersection and carried her to the side of the road out of harms way.

The shocking thing to me was that the driver of the gua gua was trying to pull away. A couple of guys from the colmado got in front of his gua gua and refused to let him go. He still kept trying to pull away. There was a lot of yelling back and forth and the driver showed no remorse and absolutely no concern for the girl. Even worse were the passengers who yelled out the windows of the gua gua to let the driver go. They yelled out that it was the girls fault and that they all had to get where they were going. They showed no concern for the girl at all.

People coming the other way through the intersection kept yelling and beeping because they could not get through. As each vehicle approached the scene, it had to be obvious to them that there had been a serious accident and the poor bleeding girl was right there in plain view. However, everyone just yelled and cursed about the hold up and few people even glanced down at the poor girl as they passed.

Finally, after about 5 minutes, a pick-up truck came through the intersection, stopped, and a guy got into the back with the girl and they sped off to a hospital (towards Moca).

Like I said before. I have no idea if the young girl lived or died but I do know that few people who witnessed the scene cared.



Larry

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A similar situation happened to my wife Altagracia when she was a child of about thirteen. While walking on the side of the road close to her native village near Bani, she was hit by a speeding bus (voladora). The bus didn't stop, and a passer-by, assuming she was dead, covered her mangled body with an old tarp. An hour went by before the news travelled to her home. Her older sister (now my sister-in-law) rushed to the road and discovered she was still alive. She stood in the middle of the road and managed to stop a pickup whose driver at first resisted helping her, but ended up carting Altagracia to the back of the pickup and driving her to Hospital Darío Contreras in Santo Domingo, where Altagracia had extensive reconstructive surgery and spent almost a month in traction.

I walk away from these situations. Learnt in the US to do so. The Good Samaritan Law does not exist, so, if you do something wrong in an effort to be kind or do something right, you become liable.

Until we fix our humanity and our compassion, so that the laws reflect a compassionate attitude, I walk (or drive) away.

Unfortunately I get more and more discouraged about living in the DR some day when I hear this stuff. Especially when I live in a great caring country and city.

A few weeks ago I fell on the sidewalk NOT road and two cars stopped and two young men rushed over to help me up.

I think that it's very clear Larry has had a very nasty shock in seeing what he saw. I would class coming across some poor girl all bleeding badly and not knowing whether that girl "made it or not" quite a psychologically traumatic scenario. I hope you're okay Larry! Accidents happen but it's NOT GOOD if you witness one and not know the outcome. I really feel for you having to remember those images and not have a "happy ending" in your head to "even" the negative...just focus on the fact that she was (finally!) taken to hospital and there was nothing more you could do for her. WHAT a horrible thing to witness indeed - but focus on the positive. All the very best to you, Emma :-(

mountainfrog said:

How come the girl's body was not searched for valuables?





.
I am appalled by people in this country how they shun away from their responsibilites as citizens and drivers.

m'frog

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When I was ran over by a motoconcho, the first thing the crowd did was search for valuables. They took my watch and wallet. Wallet later recovered.

See Photo:http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/cwlafara/detail?.dir=5975re2&.dnm=63ccre2.jpg&.src=ph

Chuckuindy

Vehicle Accidents Anna ... not someone who stumbles or trips. I would never ever walk by someone who has a stumble, without lending a hand. And no decent Dominican would either. I was in La Sirena in Santiago a few days ago, heading to the escalator on the way up... with a cart. A family was heading the same way ... the kids cut in, in front of me (Now remember, I look like an abuela....). The Papa called them back, and said to them, Now Kids! You let the lady go first. And chastised them and taught them some manners.

The Papa eventually got done with teaching his kids, the kids hung back and the Papa and I had a delightful conversation. Somehow, walking in the street and driving in the street in the DR, is a very different thing.

The folks here are wonderful. In the 'real Dominican Republic', I get just the greatest respect and impeccable manners. But I do not want to be in a vehicle accident in the DR. The rules change.

Chris said:

The folks here are wonderful. In the 'real Dominican Republic', I get just the greatest respect and impeccable manners. But I do not want to be in a vehicle accident in the DR. The rules change.

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I agree with you, 100%, but was never able to put it into words, as you just did.
Something happens to these people, once they have control of a motorized vehicle.

So the trick is don't drive (wouldn't even think of it in DR) and watch the motoconchos when crossing the street.

Criss Colon said:

These can't be the same Dominicans that the people who come and spend a week at an "AI" find so "kind,gentle,loving,and charming" are they??? :cheeky:
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Don't you read DR1 news!!!

If so, you must have read a couple of days ago the news story about 80% of resort workers in POP and PC being HAITIANOS!

Dominicans simply get the credit/reputation of the Sankies.... :surprised

On a serious note: This is a perfect example of social validation. This is nothing more than the simple human reaction when we don't know the norm, we look around and find it. Social validation compels people to change theri behaviors, attitudes, and actions, even when what they observe doesn't really match their true feelings or thoughts. People go against their better judgement because they want to be liked, accepted, and found in agreement with everyone else. When people are part of a crowd, they no longer feel individually responsible for their emotions or actions. People can allow themselves to do ridiculous or harmful things without temperament imposed by personal responsibility.

Since MOST humans will do what the crowd does, this very well explains the situation Larry witnessed.

It has nothing to do with Dominicans being "bad" or "irresponsible" or anything of the sort, but rather social validation of not helping that girl and anyone who objected to that (especially if it was someone inside the guagua or cars passing by) then they would have been outcast and shuned by the majority in that situation.

The negative part of social validation is what's called "bystander apathy". This is when someone is in trouble or in need of help, but as the number of bystanders increases, the number of people who actually helps decreases. This occurs because the more people are present at the site, the more people feel a diffusion of responsibility. You always think that with so many bystanders, someone will go to the rescue the person in need, but that someone is not going to be you. Why should you go out of your way when someone else will do it? This is the mindset that every human (yes, even you reading this right now) goes through under this circumstances.

This reminds me of the classic example of bystander apathy of the woman who, while returning home from work, was stabed in NYC in the 1980s or early 1990s. This attack was a loud, drawn-out, public event not something that occured in some lonely dark alley. As her attacker chased her down and stabbed her three separate times in a 35-minute period, 38 neighbors watched from their apartment windows and NOT ONE bothered to even call the police!

Why? Each and every single one of the neighbors believed someone would have called the police, so each and every single one of them decided they were not going to do that. So, they simply watched an innocent women being killed right in front of their eyes.

This could very well be what occured in Moca.

Dominicans are people and as such they are subject to everything everybody else is, including bystander apathy. It has nothing to do with whether a person is good or bad.

However, it has everything to do with being a human and the human desire of be liked/accepted by the crowd.

-NALs

Heard about your vehicle Larry. Nice purchase! Just be very very careful. Drive for all the other drivers on the road and never ever let road rage, or anger get the better of you. Don't ever ever push ... Let it go... let them go. Develop 8 sets if eyes like a spider. Remember the Kenny Rodgers song -- you gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to rock and roll, know when to run .... Anyway, safety first, even if you have to stick your ego right back into your sock!

Many people say you have to drive agressively here. I don't agree -- extremely defensive. You may have to speed up to be defensive, or do agressive things to get out of a situation, but defensively.

I've never hit anything and nothing has ever hit me .. and I drive daily. But it is a different level of 'being present'.... I never get out on the other side without being sweaty... and saying a small prayer.

Shut up Nals --- we're not talking about Haitians --- we're talking about driving safely in the insanity of the roads in the DR, and what you see and experience on the roads. Larry is not alone in what he witnessed. Just let some agressive motochoncho driver or guagua drive up your ass or be totally agressive just 'cause you're a gringo, or just because they can ... and try and bash you to pieces. Then you can talk. Up to then, shut up. And yes, I've done my fair share of driving in Connecticut, New York, Los Angeles and during the height of the Boston Big Dig! Social Apathy, my butt. I've never seen 'social apathy' here ... folks are too inquisitive.

Chris said:

Just let some agressive motochoncho driver or guagua drive up your ass or be totally agressive just 'cause you're a gringo, or just because they can ...

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I never let anyone do that, but when I'm in the DR they do just that and I'm Dominican, not Gringo...

I'm not talking about Haitians either --- some people can't take a joke!

Virgen de la Altagracia!!

-NALs

Life is cheap

Sometime ago same thing happened outside of Sosua near the car wash but this time it was a gringo and a gringa laying in the roadway bleeding from their heads. Someone slammed into them on their pasola and kept going. Meanwhile, passers by drove within inches of their heads and never even bothered to stop. This is life here!

Now, have a flat tire or an overheated car and the help comes out of the woodwork. People do want to help and they will if they know it will not put them in jail or harms way. People are scared to death to get involved in anything serious as these draconian laws place the person at the scene as the one responsible.

As has been posted, they will not claim responsibility for themself. What makes anyone think they will claim resonsibility for someone else? I feel horrible for this young girl!

NALs said:

This reminds me of the classic example of bystander apathy of the woman who, while returning home from work, was stabed in NYC in the 1980s or early 1990s. This attack was a loud, drawn-out, public event not something that occured in some lonely dark alley. As her attacker chased her down and stabbed her three separate times in a 35-minute period, 38 neighbors watched from their apartment windows and NOT ONE bothered to even call the police!
-NALs

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That was the murder of Kitty Genovese in 1964.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese