For as long as i can remember i have had everyone tell me the same thing DR and PR are are so similar you can barely tell the difference. Now I've never been to Puerto Rico but do have family there as well as Dominican Rep. a few days ago i saw a program called "Visions of Puerto Rico" and was surprised to see how well kept the island is. All the towns have a town square that is most often than not named Plaza Colon and many of the houses have preserved that old spanish feeling that tells of its history. Now i know DR does not look like this which is why i felt so bad as i watch the program. Dominicans here in the US are often saying how DR is better than PR and even i thought this true but now i see is not. Unlike Puerto Ricans who love their history and are proud to upkeep it Dominicans could care less if they live in a house that looks beautifully vintage because they are obsess with modernization. They want DR to look like New York and other big foreign cities but this is impossible. They should know that tourist go to DR for its rich history not to find and brokedown version of New York. As i sat there and watch Puerto Rico being displayed in all its glory i thought more of my country. How its own people are dragging it dow in everyway possible its as if they live in their own world and nothing exist outside of it. By the end of "Visions of Puerto Rico" i was so frustrated with DR that i could not sleep and have thought of all this for days which is why i'm here. Am i the only one who feels this way?
- Thread starter mfebs
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Are DR and PR really the same?
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In brief my opinion is go to Puerto Rico and see the island for yourself before you come to any conclusions. The rich cultural history is one aspect but Puerto Rico has a mystic feel that is undescribable which is why it's in one my favorite places in Latin America. Until you visit PR, make your own observations and explore the island you will never be satisfied or able to make a fair comparison to the DR in my opinion until you go there.
If you do visit PR my suggestion is to start with Old San Juan and then move through key areas of the capital for example Santurce, Río Piedras, Hato Rey (the dowtown core) and compare and contrast. There are big disparities all over the island. Go to other cities such as Ponce, Bayamón, Mayagüez etc.
Just like many places in Latin America there are similarities and differences however, DR is not PR and PR is not DR. The comparisons people make are usually very broad in nature and not often specific enough.
-LDG.
If you do visit PR my suggestion is to start with Old San Juan and then move through key areas of the capital for example Santurce, Río Piedras, Hato Rey (the dowtown core) and compare and contrast. There are big disparities all over the island. Go to other cities such as Ponce, Bayamón, Mayagüez etc.
Just like many places in Latin America there are similarities and differences however, DR is not PR and PR is not DR. The comparisons people make are usually very broad in nature and not often specific enough.
-LDG.
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Lesley D is right. I would add too that before you fear for the total capitulation of Dominican character to North American influence, globalization etc, let me add a few points. Old San juan is nicely cleaned up, but it doesnt have the same community feel that the Colonial Zone has. The Colonial Zone, for all its flaws, is still very much a vibrant Dominican barrio, and I thank the stars that Unesco's recent involvement hasnt changed that. I actually do NOT want them to clean it up too much, becuase then it becomes a museum rather than a quirky living village. Second of all, one could argue just as easily that Puerto Ricans have capitulated almost entirely to Big Brother in the north. What is that island legally and politically? It belongs to the States. I have seen neighborhoods there laid out exactly as if it were a suburban transplant from Long Island. Many of my Puerto Rican friends spend sleepless nights mulling over the very themes you yourself have mentioned. The situation on both ends is not as simple as the one you describe.
I agree with you however, that DOminicans, for all their pride in their Dominicanness, take very little time to consider the responsibility that maintaining a culture entails, and all too often they are willing to throw away their patrimony for the sake of a quick buck. Americans are often blamed for being too materialistic and obsessed with money; but Dominicans are much more so, to their everlasting detriment.
I agree with you however, that DOminicans, for all their pride in their Dominicanness, take very little time to consider the responsibility that maintaining a culture entails, and all too often they are willing to throw away their patrimony for the sake of a quick buck. Americans are often blamed for being too materialistic and obsessed with money; but Dominicans are much more so, to their everlasting detriment.
Macocael may I ask you for a favor? (this goes to every one that comments on such topics as well).
Can you please put the word SOME before Dominicans when making comments. By you saying Dominicans that means ALL, the entire race and that throws me in there. I am very proud of being Dominican and try really hard to keep my culture alive. I know lots of people that do the same as well.
As far as making a quick buck - in my own opinion - not just some Dominicans and some Americans fit into this category. This happens in all races all over the world.
Oh pleaaaaaaaaase
It's clear from the context that the guy's talking in general (not absolute) terms. When he says 'Dominicans' it doesn't necessarily mean ALL. This is his opinion,based on what he has experienced and perceived; he has the licence to speak in general terms.
It's clear from the context that the guy's talking in general (not absolute) terms. When he says 'Dominicans' it doesn't necessarily mean ALL. This is his opinion,based on what he has experienced and perceived; he has the licence to speak in general terms.
Macocael-
You raise an interesting point about Old San Juan. Estoy totalmente de acuerdo. Old San Juan is truly a tourist attraction and the shops and prices are indicative of this fact. Although history has been preserved it's a money making attraction and correctly stated it's no comparison to the Zona Colonial in SD which is very vibrant and lively. I also agree that parts of San Juan or PR look like some of the finest neighborhoods in the USA but the same holds true for other places in Latin America. I have seen this phenomenon in Panama too. It's an interesting blend of cultures and concepts. One not dominating the other but yet differentiating adequately one area from another.
To the OP you must keep in mind programs like what you saw on TV have an objective which is to glorify and show only the best of the best. That's why I suggest you go to PR if you want to see the island for yourself to determine how similar these islands are or not. Visions of Puerto Rico is not going to show a run down neighborhood in PR. It would defeat the purpose. In spite of everything though I love Puerto Rico. It's a very nice island to visit.
-LDG.
You raise an interesting point about Old San Juan. Estoy totalmente de acuerdo. Old San Juan is truly a tourist attraction and the shops and prices are indicative of this fact. Although history has been preserved it's a money making attraction and correctly stated it's no comparison to the Zona Colonial in SD which is very vibrant and lively. I also agree that parts of San Juan or PR look like some of the finest neighborhoods in the USA but the same holds true for other places in Latin America. I have seen this phenomenon in Panama too. It's an interesting blend of cultures and concepts. One not dominating the other but yet differentiating adequately one area from another.
To the OP you must keep in mind programs like what you saw on TV have an objective which is to glorify and show only the best of the best. That's why I suggest you go to PR if you want to see the island for yourself to determine how similar these islands are or not. Visions of Puerto Rico is not going to show a run down neighborhood in PR. It would defeat the purpose. In spite of everything though I love Puerto Rico. It's a very nice island to visit.
-LDG.
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I went to PR last fall to view a property on the south coast for a potential healing center/spa. We stayed in San Juan and at the property.
We visited Old San Juan and walked a lot.
It's a great place, and we really felt like it is the isla del encanto. We were totally enchanted by the property, and could have spent a few more days in PR soaking up the sun and culture which is similar to the DR.
Topographically, it's pretty much like the DR. The weather, is also similar. As are the people. They have Taino ancestry, and drop syllables when speaking, just like in the DR. The range in people's skin tones are also similar to the DR.
They have local stores, etc. and up-scale shopping, ...
What was different to me is that they had more of the services Americans are used to like electricity, for example. But you still had to watch it with the toilet paper.
And, I'm sure many things are foreign owned, but the per-capita income near the spa is higher. $300 a week is an average day laborer salary. There are race tracks for people who like auto sports, etc.
I didn't buy the spa property, but my friend did. She was born in PR, and I know I have a place to stay whenever I go there.
It will never replace my feelings for the DR, but I felt equally at home there.
mkohn
We visited Old San Juan and walked a lot.
It's a great place, and we really felt like it is the isla del encanto. We were totally enchanted by the property, and could have spent a few more days in PR soaking up the sun and culture which is similar to the DR.
Topographically, it's pretty much like the DR. The weather, is also similar. As are the people. They have Taino ancestry, and drop syllables when speaking, just like in the DR. The range in people's skin tones are also similar to the DR.
They have local stores, etc. and up-scale shopping, ...
What was different to me is that they had more of the services Americans are used to like electricity, for example. But you still had to watch it with the toilet paper.
And, I'm sure many things are foreign owned, but the per-capita income near the spa is higher. $300 a week is an average day laborer salary. There are race tracks for people who like auto sports, etc.
I didn't buy the spa property, but my friend did. She was born in PR, and I know I have a place to stay whenever I go there.
It will never replace my feelings for the DR, but I felt equally at home there.
mkohn
Listen to Lesely D!
I actually saw the show (was on PBS, part of their Visions series. They already have done Visions of Italy, Greece, Southern France, and a few other places. For those of you in NJ, NY, or CT, it will be on this coming Saturday at 12pm on PBS NY's station. If you have the channel, check it out).
The sole purpose of the Visions series is the show the positive and nice views of each country or region they have done. For example, in San Juan (right in the old section of town) facing towards the Atlantic is one of the poorest and most dangerous neighborhoods in all of Puerto Rico called La Perla. The place looks like a slum, because it is a slum. I notice that on the show when they were showing aerial views of Old San Juan they also showed the cemetery which is snuggle by one of the forts (can't remember if its San Cristobal or el Morro) but they quickly change the to another scene when the camera was beginning to show bits of La Perla on the lower left corner of the screen.
Overall Puerto Rico is better kept than the DR, but keep in mind that the DR does not has $2 billion in subsidies and grants to play with every year.
Regarding culturally, as has been stated here it's very much alike with a few minor differences which is what makes Boricuas Boricuas and Dominicans Dominicans. These are the samething with other cultures in the region when one does a comparison with the DR. Even in driving, while they drive a little better than in the DR, at night red lights are often seen as suggestion, a stop sign is sometimes ignored at intersections, and when the traffic gets heavy on the super highways even the emergency lane becomes just another traffic lane with people trying to exit the highway as soon as possible.
PR is what the DR would had been if it would had become a commonwealth of the US and DR is probably what PR would had been if it would had gone on its own.
-NALs
Reminder: The show will air again on WLIW channel 21 from PBS at 12pm on Saturday. It's a very nice show.
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Apology!
While I was in fact talking loosely, and not absolutely, you are still right. I am always the first to jump on people for making loose generalizations, it smacks of sloppy thinking, so I officially amend that to some or many dominicans it is also true that Americans specialize in overdevelopment. Read the hilarious novels of Carl Hiassen.
Actually I work with many Dominicans who are very active in keeping the culture alive: several of the museum people, various art and aid organizations, the press, etc. And it is very true that many Dominicans are very active in keeping things going. Also I am often heartened by the various programs I see on TV that promote the culture and society and history. I used to be glued to Huellas de la historia and I tune in regularly to the State channel Quisqueya. But I also do see terrible crimes against the patrimony, with the Tourist Ministry sending people in to cut down trees in our national parks,a nd Leonel giving land away to developers, etc. Plus our education system is in serious need of overhaul and history for one thing needs to be taught as something more than an arm of the state's propaganda. I tell you another thing I would love to see here: Dominican produced telenovelas that capitalize on the same model as Xica da Silva, which proved that one could make use of a country's history to provide great plots and riveting drama. Dominican history and culture is so rich, imagine the possibilities! Finally we are seeing the emergence of a film industry; I hope that the TV industry begins to profit from that, and we see better trained actors and actresses, more capable and imaginative directors and script writers, etc. There is talent here, but it needs support and developing.
While I was in fact talking loosely, and not absolutely, you are still right. I am always the first to jump on people for making loose generalizations, it smacks of sloppy thinking, so I officially amend that to some or many dominicans
it is also true that Americans specialize in overdevelopment. Read the hilarious novels of Carl Hiassen.Actually I work with many Dominicans who are very active in keeping the culture alive: several of the museum people, various art and aid organizations, the press, etc. And it is very true that many Dominicans are very active in keeping things going. Also I am often heartened by the various programs I see on TV that promote the culture and society and history. I used to be glued to Huellas de la historia and I tune in regularly to the State channel Quisqueya. But I also do see terrible crimes against the patrimony, with the Tourist Ministry sending people in to cut down trees in our national parks,a nd Leonel giving land away to developers, etc. Plus our education system is in serious need of overhaul and history for one thing needs to be taught as something more than an arm of the state's propaganda. I tell you another thing I would love to see here: Dominican produced telenovelas that capitalize on the same model as Xica da Silva, which proved that one could make use of a country's history to provide great plots and riveting drama. Dominican history and culture is so rich, imagine the possibilities! Finally we are seeing the emergence of a film industry; I hope that the TV industry begins to profit from that, and we see better trained actors and actresses, more capable and imaginative directors and script writers, etc. There is talent here, but it needs support and developing.
To follow up on this: I guarantee I could make a tv show that would blow people away with the beauty and cleanliness of this island. that is how TV works, and there is so much telegenic stuff here to record that the footage would just go on and on. IN fact I wouldnt mind the chance to work on such a project. I am already working on some still photography that more or less works along the same lines, for travel magazines and the like.
I love puerto Rico, dont get me wrong,a nd I love Puerto Ricans. Grew up with them in NYC, grew up on salsa and all the rest. But I think DR and the Colonial zone here are very special, very unique. I just love walking the colonial streets, I never ever get tired of it. I photograph there day in and day out and never ever fail to find something new and interesting. And the different people that live there: the bohemian artists, the cueros and their expat boyfriends, the lowlifes from san Miguel, the working people, my local baker, my local barber, the family who runs the tourist shop next to la Cafetera, La Cafetera itself (my favorite all time place to hang out), the old guys who gather to talk politics there, the various people who have spent time and money on renovating the old colonial homes (oh please somebody buy me one too!), and the children playing stickball in the streets, or the old nuns shuffling from one building to another, the "guides" with their hotly whispered come-ons, the red as a beet tourists, the incredible churches -- the whole shebang. It is a lively place, as interesting and varied as the village in NYC. Old San Juan by comparison is more a showcase than a real village or town. It is too prettied up, too much a tourist attraction to suit me. and it doesnt have the variety of architecture and people. Just not the same.
I love puerto Rico, dont get me wrong,a nd I love Puerto Ricans. Grew up with them in NYC, grew up on salsa and all the rest. But I think DR and the Colonial zone here are very special, very unique. I just love walking the colonial streets, I never ever get tired of it. I photograph there day in and day out and never ever fail to find something new and interesting. And the different people that live there: the bohemian artists, the cueros and their expat boyfriends, the lowlifes from san Miguel, the working people, my local baker, my local barber, the family who runs the tourist shop next to la Cafetera, La Cafetera itself (my favorite all time place to hang out), the old guys who gather to talk politics there, the various people who have spent time and money on renovating the old colonial homes (oh please somebody buy me one too!), and the children playing stickball in the streets, or the old nuns shuffling from one building to another, the "guides" with their hotly whispered come-ons, the red as a beet tourists, the incredible churches -- the whole shebang. It is a lively place, as interesting and varied as the village in NYC. Old San Juan by comparison is more a showcase than a real village or town. It is too prettied up, too much a tourist attraction to suit me. and it doesnt have the variety of architecture and people. Just not the same.
There is an area similar to the Zona Colonial in PR-
Maco your description of the Colonial Zone is so on target but I just want to add that San Juan does have an area similar to the Zona Colonial where you will see everything that you just described, the name slips my mind right now but it's outside of Hato Rey. There are restaurants, barber shops, arts and crafts shops, people standing around chatting, playing dominoes etc. I would call it the typical 'day in the life of PR'. That strip is very representative of PR culture IMO.
In general:
History plays an important role in the similarities and differences but the uniqueness as well is definitely unmistakable between the two islands. The linguistic similarities are also noteworthy from a lexical and syntactical point of view. One aspect that is interesting in this regard is the accent and intonation of speakers from the South of both islands. It is strikingly identical and only certain features of language identify and differentiate one speaker from another. Again history played a role on how the Spanish language evolved in both islands.
Could it be that PR preserves its buildings, monuments etc. because its tourist industry is not as developed as the DR's? Meaning resorts, vacation packages etc. therefore, Old San Juan and the tourist zone of Santurce are well kept because tourists frequent those areas of San Juan most? Just food for thought.
-LDG.
Maco your description of the Colonial Zone is so on target but I just want to add that San Juan does have an area similar to the Zona Colonial where you will see everything that you just described, the name slips my mind right now but it's outside of Hato Rey. There are restaurants, barber shops, arts and crafts shops, people standing around chatting, playing dominoes etc. I would call it the typical 'day in the life of PR'. That strip is very representative of PR culture IMO.
In general:
History plays an important role in the similarities and differences but the uniqueness as well is definitely unmistakable between the two islands. The linguistic similarities are also noteworthy from a lexical and syntactical point of view. One aspect that is interesting in this regard is the accent and intonation of speakers from the South of both islands. It is strikingly identical and only certain features of language identify and differentiate one speaker from another. Again history played a role on how the Spanish language evolved in both islands.
Could it be that PR preserves its buildings, monuments etc. because its tourist industry is not as developed as the DR's? Meaning resorts, vacation packages etc. therefore, Old San Juan and the tourist zone of Santurce are well kept because tourists frequent those areas of San Juan most? Just food for thought.
-LDG.
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While I was in fact talking loosely, and not absolutely, you are still right. I am always the first to jump on people for making loose generalizations, it smacks of sloppy thinking, so I officially amend that to some or many dominicans
Actually I work with many Dominicans who are very active in keeping the culture alive: several of the museum people, various art and aid organizations, the press, etc. And it is very true that many Dominicans are very active in keeping things going. Also I am often heartened by the various programs I see on TV that promote the culture and society and history. I used to be glued to Huellas de la historia and I tune in regularly to the State channel Quisqueya. But I also do see terrible crimes against the patrimony, with the Tourist Ministry sending people in to cut down trees in our national parks,a nd Leonel giving land away to developers, etc. Plus our education system is in serious need of overhaul and history for one thing needs to be taught as something more than an arm of the state's propaganda. I tell you another thing I would love to see here: Dominican produced telenovelas that capitalize on the same model as Xica da Silva, which proved that one could make use of a country's history to provide great plots and riveting drama. Dominican history and culture is so rich, imagine the possibilities! Finally we are seeing the emergence of a film industry; I hope that the TV industry begins to profit from that, and we see better trained actors and actresses, more capable and imaginative directors and script writers, etc. There is talent here, but it needs support and developing.
Hey that show (huellas de la historia) comes on here (NYC) on Sunday mornings. I have watched it a couple of times. Although I must admit I don't know as much as you do of the Dominican history. The show became boring at times as I didn't know what they were talking about.
To answer to the original poster one can say that the DR is similar to PR in climate and some of the customs. Do what others have recommended - visit both islands and make your own comparison.
Maybe a little off topic but not by much. Many moons ago I travelled to PR with my ex wife who is Puerto Rican. We stayed in about 4 or 5 different cities. San Juan, San German,Aguadilla, Ponce can't remember the last.
We stayed in small motels called Posadas. They are government run. Not fancy but clean, comfortable and cheap. The Posadas are found all over the island and offer you a feel of the town you stay in. I think if something like the Posadas could be duplicated in the DR it would serve to spread the culture of the country. Unfortunately that would be asking too much of the government.
I was impressed by the beauty and the people of PR.
We stayed in small motels called Posadas. They are government run. Not fancy but clean, comfortable and cheap. The Posadas are found all over the island and offer you a feel of the town you stay in. I think if something like the Posadas could be duplicated in the DR it would serve to spread the culture of the country. Unfortunately that would be asking too much of the government.
I was impressed by the beauty and the people of PR.
I had had the gratifying experience of growing up with people from both DR and PR. On either side, you can find very fine individuals that are friendly, generous, trust worthy and just a lot fun to associate with. And I dare to say that among all the other nations in Latin America, DR and PR people seem to have the greatest degree compatibility. Just look at the number of marriages between DR and PR people. But at the same time I found out that these two groups are different and that each has its own unique history, culture, idiosyncrasy, language, music, political orientantion and chosen road toward economic development.
Que viva Puerto Rico!!!!!
Y La Republica Dominicana!!!!!
Que viva los latinos.
Mike, PR from The Bronx!!!!!!
Y La Republica Dominicana!!!!!
Que viva los latinos.
Mike, PR from The Bronx!!!!!!
macocael I am Puerto Rican and I have to remind you that Puerto Rico was invaded by the US and annexed (manifest destiny) after the Spanish American war. Spain left that island in shambles, taking all its resources and didn't do anything for its people. The Puerto Rican's made that island what it is now through hard work, it came from the people not from "Big Brother" from the north as you put it. I read a tourist article once and they compared PR to DR, and it read "once we got to DR you could immediately see it was a 3rd world country compared to PR". There is nothing wrong with being clean; you can still keep the culture alive. I fail to see how being dirty is part of anyone?s culture, I am not saying that Dominicans are dirty but that is what is being implied here and on several other threads on this forum. I have read on this forum that Dominicans are together and imply that we PR's aren't together, that is not true. I am 49 years old and I was around in the 60's in New York City, when young PR's got together and formed the Young Lords. We became activist to stop the discrimination of Puerto Rican's and now those efforts have expanded to other Latinos. Again there is nothing wrong with cleaning up your environment and not losing anything. There is nothing wrong with wanting the big bucks that is why PR's spearheaded the Bodega in New York City. Not saying that having a Bodega is big bucks but it was a start.
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