Shutting Down "Puntos de Droga"

Mortran

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Today the president announced that next week about 20,000 so called "puntos de droga" will be eradicated.
What sounds pretty positive at first sight, is actually another pretext to establish a totalitarian police state without any respect of the law or civil rights.
Where does the president have this number of 20,000 from?
It is simply the total number of all discotecas, centros cervezeros, car washs etc. in the country.
This means from next week on, the PLD regime will indiscriminately shut down all these establishment under the populist pretext of accusing them to be "puntos de droga".
 

Rocky

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Today the president announced that next week about 20,000 so called "puntos de droga" will be eradicated.
What sounds pretty positive at first sight, is actually another pretext to establish a totalitarian police state without any respect of the law or civil rights.
Where does the president have this number of 20,000 from?
It is simply the total number of all discotecas, centros cervezeros, car washs etc. in the country.
This means from next week on, the PLD regime will indiscriminately shut down all these establishment under the populist pretext of accusing them to be "puntos de droga".
Oh oh.
That doesn't sound good.
I hope your assesment of how he will implement that project is wrong, or we're all in for a rough ride.
 

Mortran

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Since the idea that the DNCD has collected evidence in 20,000 individual cases is unrealistic, the announcement cannot mean anything else but an indiscriminate operation against every single business without exception.
There is no inteligence department in the police that would be able to file such a list of 20,000 puntos de droga. They simply looked the number up in the registers of the "Camera de Industria y Comercio".
There is no way to execute an operation of that scale within a few days going the legal way by filing law suits against the affected businesses.

Thereforew an urgent warning to all owners of any business in the entertainment industry: Close your business immediately for one or two months and store your inventory at a safe place! If you hesitate and don't do this in the next hours, you will certainly suffer a 100% loss of everything you own.
 

Rocky

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Since the idea that the DNCD has collected evidence in 20,000 individual cases is unrealistic, the announcement cannot mean anything else but an indiscriminate operation against every single business without exception.
There is no inteligence department in the police that would be able to file such a list of 20,000 puntos de droga. They simply looked the number up in the registers of the "Camera de Industria y Comercio".
There is no way to execute an operation of that scale within a few days going the legal way by filing law suits against the affected businesses.

Thereforew an urgent warning to all owners of any business in the entertainment industry: Close your business immediately for one or two months and store your inventory at a safe place! If you hesitate and don't do this in the next hours, you will certainly suffer a 100% loss of everything you own.
Would you mind quoting the source of this info before we all start packing up and heading for the hills?
 

Rick Snyder

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Marco,

You need to check out the mans history. He joined in Oct of 2004 made two posts to the "Venus" forum and then went dormant for 2 years. He then joins back in recently and makes 9 more posts all in the "Living" forum and 7 of them crying about the new ordinance and these 2 crying about a new ordinance. Another example of a non-contributing member.

Rick
 

Rocky

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Marco,

You need to check out the mans history. He joined in Oct of 2004 made two posts to the "Venus" forum and then went dormant for 2 years. He then joins back in recently and makes 9 more posts all in the "Living" forum and 7 of them crying about the new ordinance and these 2 crying about a new ordinance. Another example of a non-contributing member.

Rick
I did just that, but always willing to give the benefit of the doubt, and no harm in asking for the source of his post.
Thanks Rick.
Regards.
 

Chris

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Since the idea that the DNCD has collected evidence in 20,000 individual cases is unrealistic, the announcement cannot mean anything else but an indiscriminate operation against every single business without exception.
There is no inteligence department in the police that would be able to file such a list of 20,000 puntos de droga. They simply looked the number up in the registers of the "Camera de Industria y Comercio".
There is no way to execute an operation of that scale within a few days going the legal way by filing law suits against the affected businesses.

Thereforew an urgent warning to all owners of any business in the entertainment industry: Close your business immediately for one or two months and store your inventory at a safe place! If you hesitate and don't do this in the next hours, you will certainly suffer a 100% loss of everything you own.

A note to DR1 readers. This seems to be a post motivated by the poster's personal fears. Please do not take this as real, because you read it on the DR1. I will leave this open a little bit for comments - but take it with a grain of salt!
 

tht

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Oct 10, 2002
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the weather is still nice

Marco,

.....a non-contributing member.

Rick

What's the definition of a "contributing member" on this forum, 50 posts or 100 or perhaps 10 a day over three years? Or is an intellectual challenge a significant part of this "contribution" thing? Just curious, I'm targeting 100 posts in 10 years. Is that okay??

Hasta luego
 

Rocky

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What's the definition of a "contributing member" on this forum, 50 posts or 100 or perhaps 10 a day over three years? Or is an intellectual challenge a significant part of this "contribution" thing? Just curious, I'm targeting 100 posts in 10 years. Is that okay??

Hasta luego
I know this is addressed to Rick, but, if I may.
It has nothing to do with the amount of posts.
Quality is better than quantity.
It doesn't even matter if a person never has any advice to give.
A person who posts only one single post, and asks a good question, that once answered assists others, is in fact contributing.
Those who give good answers also are contributing.
You can't have answers witout questions.
Some people may have only a few posts that are more destructive than constructive, and this person would be considered a non-contributor.
I can't and won't speak for Rick, but I presume he meant that the OP has not been of any help to DR1 or it's members.

I'm just waiting to see if the OP has a newspaper article or document to support his theory.
 

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
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About the subject of that thread, the "puntos de drogas"... I am skeptic as to the willingness of the "jefe de la policia" (local police chief) and the "fiscal" (local judge) to close them, as it is well know that each are being paid 50 000.oo RD$/month to allow the business to go on...
 

MrMike

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It sounds like a logical assumption based on the (recent) past behaviour of this government.

But I think they will most likely target households, and not businesses. I think they will be confiscating vehicles and other goods and also siezing real estate as they have done recently, particularly in one case where the house was rented and the tennants were supposedly dealing drugs there.

The owner was like "what the hell, that's my house" and the police were like "well they were dealing drugs so now we're going to turn it into a police station, go screw yourself".

It is going to be a rough ride for alot of people regardless of how its carried out, the chances of them targteting even 70% real "puntos de drogas" is about 0, since the real ones operate with police involvement and will be warned far in advance.

Sad thing is everyone untouched by this is going to be sitting back going "oh those bad, bad drug dealers" and DR1 moderators and staff are going to downplay it as much as possible so they can keep painting a sunny picture of an increasingly dictatorial country.
 

Ruffino1974

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contributing poster....

Seems like more and more of the usual suspects have been calling people with differeing opinions "not a contributing poster" based of the number of posts. It seems to people like the one who mentioned it here that is is just a numbers game. Others here have lives away from their computer screens and feel that we don't have to post here when we get holes in our socks or when the grabage is not picked up on the right day. I for one don't post just to see my thoughts and opinions in print or because i want to stir the pot or because i am bored. I try to contribute something each time, though the value of it might questioned by some. This may be the first post where i have contributed nothing, but at least i will assend the ladder to contributing poster in some peoples eyes...

Trying for 200 posts in 15 years..

Rich

Ruffino1974, I am not editing your post here. But please let's get off this track and on the correct one.
 
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Chris

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Sad thing is everyone untouched by this is going to be sitting back going "oh those bad, bad drug dealers" and DR1 moderators and staff are going to downplay it as much as possible so they can keep painting a sunny picture of an increasingly dictatorial country.

Someone must have pee-peed in your weaties this morning ;)

Unfair comment MrMike. This thread is open. And this moderator (speaking for myself) has not only started crime threads, but also donned some battle gear and against folks like Nals (no harm intended here Nals, just an example that comes to mind), in order to keep the crime threads open, where people can report what they experience.

There also is no direct or implied policy from DR1 management to 'paint a sunny picture'. So, also unfair comment. As far as the previous crime threads are concerned, not only did the management allow me to moderate them as I saw fit, they supported my decisions in each instance. There are no restrictions on discussions on crime, or dictatorship, excepting those that I use to keep things on track and keep posters from committing cyber murder. I am not trying to speak for DR1 management, simply speaking for my own experience.

OK, now I have that off my chest. It is exactly the issue of the underlying threat of a country 'becoming' more dictatorial that this thread is still open. (besides the poster's name :laugh:

I think it would be an excellent discussion, if we can keep it moderated and on track.

So, we are waiting for some answers from the original poster, but this thread is also open to discussions and viewpoints on the issue of the DR becoming more dictatorial, or not!

I'm adding this ... like you, I think in the lines of the 'logical assumption' and believe these acts and efforts should be watched closely.
 
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MrMike

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There also is no direct or implied policy from DR1 management to 'paint a sunny picture'. So, also unfair comment. As far as the previous crime threads are concerned, not only did the management allow me to moderate them as I saw fit, they supported my decisions in each instance. There are no restrictions on discussions on crime, or dictatorship, excepting those that I use to keep things on track and keep posters from committing cyber murder. I am not trying to speak for DR1 management, simply speaking for my own experience.

I'm not saying there's a policy, Chris, I'm just making a prediction. 2 of them actually, one about the way the police will shut down "puntos de drogas" and the other about the DR1 reaction.

It's obvious there is a crime problem and a drug problem, but it's also obvious that the problem is not so much how the police are handling it as it is the police themselves.

Why in the hell are there 20,000 well known places where drugs are sold openly in the first place? Don't the police have the authority to shut them down without special orders? Shouldn't they rather be under investigation for not having shut them down long ago? Since when does the president have to announce the shutting down of drug dealing spots?

The only way it makes any sense is if it is a ruse for something else, like snatching up vehicles and real estate, and collecting legal bribes in the form of fines paid to avoid extended legal procedures under heavy-handed intervention policies.
 

cobraboy

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What I find interesting is what folks describe as a totalitarian state.

Instead of complaining about the government rounding up members of dissenting political parties, shutting down select media outlets (think Cuba) and the wholesale confiscation of firearms and weapons, totalitarian is now cleaning up the alcohol problem and cracking down hard on drugs.

FTR-I abhor strong government action without due process. Here in the US such actions are quickly resolved in court. But I know the DR is not the US. This does not smell like "totalitarianism" to me. Where I live places are shut down all the time when they are classified as a "Public Nuisance".
 

MrMike

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What I find interesting is what folks describe as a totalitarian state.

Instead of complaining about the government rounding up members of dissenting political parties, shutting down select media outlets (think Cuba) and the wholesale confiscation of firearms and weapons, totalitarian is now cleaning up the alcohol problem and cracking down hard on drugs.

FTR-I abhor strong government action without due process. Here in the US such actions are quickly resolved in court. But I know the DR is not the US. This does not smell like "totalitarianism" to me. Where I live places are shut down all the time when they are classified as a "Public Nuisance".

How would you like it if you had to pass through multiple police roadblocks on your way home from work every day with a chance of being arrested for "further investigation" at each one?

There is no communication between these checkpoints so being searched and hassled at one of them and finally "cleared" is no indication you won't be searched and hassled at each one.

Does that sould like a crackdown on drugs or totalitarianism? My employees leave work at 11:pM and have to deal with this nightly now.
 

cobraboy

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How would you like it if you had to pass through multiple police roadblocks on your way home from work every day with a chance of being arrested for "further investigation" at each one?
Prolly not much any less that when it happens in the states..

There is no communication between these checkpoints so being searched and hassled at one of them and finally "cleared" is no indication you won't be searched and hassled at each one.
OK. Bothersome.

Does that sould like a crackdown on drugs or totalitarianism? My employees leave work at 11:pM and have to deal with this nightly now.
Depends on what they are looking for: drugs, unregistered guns, stolen goods, stolen cars/motos, drunk drivers, open alcohol containers, etc. or the political enemies of the PLD. If they are tossing political enemies in gulags for "subversive activities and literature" at the roadblocks, THEN it gets scary.

FWIW: night roadblocks/checkpoints here in FL (called "Wolfpacks") are not at all uncommon, nor has the ACLU filed complaints. Every time it happens, there are numerous DUI arrests, probation/parole violations, the occasional recovery of a stolen car, firearm violations, possession of drugs arrests, etc. Please explain how this differs from what they are doing in the DR. Granted, they happen on holidays more often than not, but they still happen.

Driving in the states and the DR is a privilege, not a Constitutional Right. That is why drivers have licenses. That license give "implied consent" to the roadblocks and inspections.

Maybe a DR lawyer can weigh in.
 

Rocky

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