Dominicans--striving community

CarpeDReam

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Feb 17, 2006
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This is just for a member who once claimed dominicans are the poorest of hispanics; I too read that article and was surprised and at disbelief. But then I found this article:

"NEW YORK- Dominicans are not New York?s poorest, on the contrary, that community is leader in the area of businesses and professional practice and is recognized for its solid contributions to the general development, said the director of the Political Press Office of Adriano Espaillat, Manhattan?s district 72 State assemblyman.

Disraeli Guill?n who spoke with journalists in response to a report that describes Dominicans as New York State?s poorest, discarding credibility to the work presented by university professor Ramona Hernandez.

Guill?n affirmed that Hernandez heads in New York "the failed Dominican Republic-New York Strategic Alliance project,? which president Leonel Fernandez seeks to implement and which has a committee of 162 members.

"The project has failed, due to ineptitude and governmental affiliation, which prevails in its structures," he said, adding that the Dominicans "must be aware that the community which we are part of and that has been fortified in the last 50 years, is now a structure of renewed population in which the Dominico-Americans predominate, leaving behind the original Dominicans, which indicates that they are well prepared young men and women adapted to all work, production and social behavior standards of the American nation,, which Hernandez discards to justify her confused appreciations," he said.

He said that "each home has three and up to five who have been born in the United States, who have been moving the authentic Quisqueyan community" and affirmed that he is willing to participate in debates on the important topic which gathering current and historical elements, establishes the real immigration indices, its establishment and development in the United States.

He cited the report "Dominicans prevail where others don?t dare," published be the newspaper Wall Street Journal to analyze how Dominican men and women, had entered New York?s businesses sectors, where others were not as bold, providing services, creating jobs and sparking development.

"If we stop to analyze that social phenomenon in our community of immigrants and its strong tradition deny the hoisting of that flag of poverty. We find a commercial structure of 29,637 average, large and small businesses, including 236 supermarkets with a annual selling power of $16 billion dollars and 4,254 warehouses, 2,365 restaurants and one immense diversity of businesses and professional service offices," he said.

In addition, Guillen said that Dominicans own and operate specialized professional services in different areas, from medicine, to installations of multiple scientific assistance centers to treat diseases.

?There are health care centers, at the highest treatment level, but, in the report given by professor Hernandez an exceptional aspect exists, that is concentrated in ignoring, typical method that experts puts into practice to create specific motivations, reason why, I allow myself to consider that to attribute to him to the Dominicans in New York, a high rate of poverty, is an interested personal report and directed to get attention.? He said.

?Attributing to a high rate of poverty to Dominicans in New York, is not strange and it does not surprise us, because in other occasions Hernandez has entered into contradiction with the Puerto Rican Fund for Legal and Educative Defense, a prestigious organization that assists the poorest Puerto Ricans in New York," Guill?n added." "

Now me:
In addition to this, although the most wealthy hispanics are Cubans; we are likely to become in close second (lets not forget however, which Cubans came to the US). And the fact that of all hispanics born in the US, dominicans are the ones who attend college the most--this would likely change our situation greatly. Despite the lack of education of the generations before us, dominican parents overall place strong emphasis on their children being educated here in the US; they don't need a diploma to understand the importance of a solid education. I have never seen a dominican asking for money in the streets...not even selling water on
Amsterdam ave or batteries in the train---it is their pride that drives them to want more; they may not have the greatest of jobs, but in NY, when you think of Lincoln cab drivers, beauty salons, auto mechanics, hispanic restaurants, latin dance clubs, latino supermarkets, bodegas, travel agencies, western unions in latino barrios, and many more--u often think of dominicans--even in neighborhoods where most are of other hispanic origins. This is impressive considering the rant of many ppl on this board often highlighting their lack of education of preparedness--and nothing else.
 

A.Hidalgo

Silver
Apr 28, 2006
3,268
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This is just for a member who once claimed dominicans are the poorest of hispanics; I too read that article and was surprised and at disbelief. But then I found this article:

"NEW YORK- Dominicans are not New York?s poorest, on the contrary, that community is leader in the area of businesses and professional practice and is recognized for its solid contributions to the general development, said the director of the Political Press Office of Adriano Espaillat, Manhattan?s district 72 State assemblyman.

Disraeli Guill?n who spoke with journalists in response to a report that describes Dominicans as New York State?s poorest, discarding credibility to the work presented by university professor Ramona Hernandez.

Guill?n affirmed that Hernandez heads in New York "the failed Dominican Republic-New York Strategic Alliance project,? which president Leonel Fernandez seeks to implement and which has a committee of 162 members.

"The project has failed, due to ineptitude and governmental affiliation, which prevails in its structures," he said, adding that the Dominicans "must be aware that the community which we are part of and that has been fortified in the last 50 years, is now a structure of renewed population in which the Dominico-Americans predominate, leaving behind the original Dominicans, which indicates that they are well prepared young men and women adapted to all work, production and social behavior standards of the American nation,, which Hernandez discards to justify her confused appreciations," he said.

He said that "each home has three and up to five who have been born in the United States, who have been moving the authentic Quisqueyan community" and affirmed that he is willing to participate in debates on the important topic which gathering current and historical elements, establishes the real immigration indices, its establishment and development in the United States.

He cited the report "Dominicans prevail where others don?t dare," published be the newspaper Wall Street Journal to analyze how Dominican men and women, had entered New York?s businesses sectors, where others were not as bold, providing services, creating jobs and sparking development.

"If we stop to analyze that social phenomenon in our community of immigrants and its strong tradition deny the hoisting of that flag of poverty. We find a commercial structure of 29,637 average, large and small businesses, including 236 supermarkets with a annual selling power of $16 billion dollars and 4,254 warehouses, 2,365 restaurants and one immense diversity of businesses and professional service offices," he said.

In addition, Guillen said that Dominicans own and operate specialized professional services in different areas, from medicine, to installations of multiple scientific assistance centers to treat diseases.

?There are health care centers, at the highest treatment level, but, in the report given by professor Hernandez an exceptional aspect exists, that is concentrated in ignoring, typical method that experts puts into practice to create specific motivations, reason why, I allow myself to consider that to attribute to him to the Dominicans in New York, a high rate of poverty, is an interested personal report and directed to get attention.? He said.

?Attributing to a high rate of poverty to Dominicans in New York, is not strange and it does not surprise us, because in other occasions Hernandez has entered into contradiction with the Puerto Rican Fund for Legal and Educative Defense, a prestigious organization that assists the poorest Puerto Ricans in New York," Guill?n added." "

Now me:
In addition to this, although the most wealthy hispanics are Cubans; we are likely to become in close second (lets not forget however, which Cubans came to the US). And the fact that of all hispanics born in the US, dominicans are the ones who attend college the most--this would likely change our situation greatly. Despite the lack of education of the generations before us, dominican parents overall place strong emphasis on their children being educated here in the US; they don't need a diploma to understand the importance of a solid education. I have never seen a dominican asking for money in the streets...not even selling water on
Amsterdam ave or batteries in the train---it is their pride that drives them to want more; they may not have the greatest of jobs, but in NY, when you think of Lincoln cab drivers, beauty salons, auto mechanics, hispanic restaurants, latin dance clubs, latino supermarkets, bodegas, travel agencies, western unions in latino barrios, and many more--u often think of dominicans--even in neighborhoods where most are of other hispanic origins. This is impressive considering the rant of many ppl on this board often highlighting their lack of education of preparedness--and nothing else.

I agree with you. If I am not mistaken you might be referring to our fellow member Don Omar. He has some ideas but mainly he rants with a racist angle, only to his detriment. Good research.
 

2dlight

Bronze
Jun 3, 2004
970
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I've recently met several Dominicans living in the Los Angeles area; many are business owners(I have a stack of business cards), others are gainfully employed and doing well.Others are seeking higher education, raising families and taking advantage of the opportunities available here. My limited perception is that the Dominican community is thriving here too.

P.S. The Dominican consul mentioned the possibility of direct flights from LAX to SDQ; keeping my fingers crossed!
 

bilijou

New member
Jun 13, 2006
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I took a class with Mrs. Hernandez a long time ago. To be honest with you, she struck me as being a little bit crazy (I didn?t get along with her). One thing is for sure, I would trust her study (an established sociologist) over Disraeli Guillen (a journalist). I know that she has been doing research on this for more than a decade, while Guillen is pulling on news reports.

Hernandez?s ?The Mobility of Workers Under Advanced Capitalism? is, in my opinion, the one of the most extensive works about Dominicans living in NY. It explains the push (which goes into the politics) and pull factors in Dominican migration. And the fact is that Dominicans are marginalized in NY society (mostly not because of themselves, but because of the structure of this city), they have difficulty assimilating. In another newspaper article, she cites the fact that Dominicans that move to Miami are better off since it?s a bilingual city. You hear the same about Puerto Ricans; if they would?ve gone to any city other than New York, they could?ve avoided so much poverty. Ever heard, ?if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere??

The evidence is there. Dominicans experience a high level of poverty in NY. You can argue that a few Dominicans did this or that, but it doesn?t change the fact that the rest are unemployed.
You never seen Dominicans selling water in the streets?
Go to Amsterdam and 181st street in Washington Heights. Or 207th street bridge, Inwood by the Pathmark. They sell flowers too. Oh and how can you forget Mr. Frio Frio Man?
If you think Dominicans are going to be second to Cubans in wealth in the US any time soon, you are dead wrong. The figures show that Dominicans underperform when compared to other nationalities. Now? when it comes to politics, NOBODY and I mean NOBODY beats Dominicans. They?re calling us the ?new Irish? for the way the community has gained political influence.

To hear that Dominicans are among the poorest in NY hurts, but once I put my nationalist pride aside and look at the facts, I can do nothing but accept it. When I see how uneducated Dominicans are in this city, I can?t do anything but accept it. Guillen is unwilling to accept it. However, he doesn?t have an empirical basis for his counter-arguments.
 

deelt

Bronze
Mar 23, 2004
987
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And exactly what are Disraeli Guillén credentials? Last I checked he was a political office director who is trying to be somebody.

While I will acknowledge that I do not agree with aligning this type of reseach with any kind of political afiliation, as a person who has seen and even crunched the numbers I stand by Dr. Hernandez's reported findings.

Lastly, most Dominicans live and die by appearances leaving an empty bank account. As a people we have to learn how to manage money.

Invest well.
 

A.Hidalgo

Silver
Apr 28, 2006
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Bilijou after reading your post I looked up some of the writings by Pro.Ramona Hernandez and I must agree with you that she has been researching for a long time. Her research is thorough and in depth. AS you said we need to put nationalism aside an accept these stubborn facts. Reminds me of a quote

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored"
Aldoux Huxley
 

bilijou

New member
Jun 13, 2006
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thanatos,

On one hand, her report might threaten the Dominican community's morale. This is why you see these journalists standing up. On the other, Dominicans have long suffered from the omition and twisting of facts for the sake of pride, both in the island and in the states. Many of the elites in the island were in denial as to the poverty level and other social problems in the country until violence exploded in their face in recent years. What Guillen is doing is no different. A few weeks ago the artist community in DR announced the exhibit "La Otra Feria", with the purpose of showing "the other face" of DR, i.e., the poverty. This shows how not all are fooled by the projections.

I honestly think that if more Dominicans knew the undistorted facts, it would prompt them to get involved with their own. As long as they think we're OK, we won't be.
 

A.Hidalgo

Silver
Apr 28, 2006
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thanatos,

On one hand, her report might threaten the Dominican community's morale. This is why you see these journalists standing up. On the other, Dominicans have long suffered from the omition and twisting of facts for the sake of pride, both in the island and in the states. Many of the elites in the island were in denial as to the poverty level and other social problems in the country until violence exploded in their face in recent years. What Guillen is doing is no different. A few weeks ago the artist community in DR announced the exhibit "La Otra Feria", with the purpose of showing "the other face" of DR, i.e., the poverty. This shows how not all are fooled by the projections.

I honestly think that if more Dominicans knew the undistorted facts, it would prompt them to get involved with their own. As long as they think we're OK, we won't be.


AMEN!!!!!!!
 

Don Polo.

Brain Donor
May 9, 2006
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:tired: ...where are the facts?

Last time i checked our poverty rate and unemployment rate was among the highest of all latinos and in among minorties in general.

Like I said,stop sending 200-300 dollars back home every month when you only make 1,000 and you'll eventually be able to live okay.

Some english classes and GED,Workforce,Jobcore,etc..

I know for a fact that US born dominicans are doing better than our other hispanic counterparts because we assimilate better(being seen as black or prican,people tend to see you as american).

I see more dominican kids in college more than any other nationality,very true from experience.Eventually that will pay off.

No only if our parents and grandparents can get there heads out of there asses..:tired:
 

Don Polo.

Brain Donor
May 9, 2006
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I think the main problems is the remittances & thd drug trade mostly.

That is what's holding us back.
 

bilijou

New member
Jun 13, 2006
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No mention of facts... but one thing is for sure... "remittances are what hold Dominicans back".
The solution to the poverty level of Dominicans in NY: ?stop sending 200-300 dollars back home every month when you only make 1,000 and you'll eventually be able to live okay.?-Don Polo

Eventually? things will fall right in place.
You just get more interesting by the day? hehehe
 

CarpeDReam

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Feb 17, 2006
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It is true that, be it as it may, dominicans need to improve their social status. I certainly do not think the solution is to stop sending remittances--I know you do not care Mr. Polo, but this is helping our people back home tremendously--you may not care bc your family lives in "Arroyo Hondo, Naco, bla bla bla" but for those dominicans that have families who cannot find good enough jobs to survive from, it's a big deal.

I do agree that the best way to improve the status is to educate ourselves as much as possible. This is our biggest disadvantage.

I still think that,the fact that there is a higher percentage of dominican americans in college compared to all other hispanic groups, our situation will change and if the trend continues, we would likely be the most prepared.

Oh and from my experience, the people selling water on 181st and Amsterdam are not dominicans--look closely. I've actually done studies on these people years back in school. Most are south american/mexican.

The point to my previous post was the fact that, yes, we're not the most striving community, but at least when it comes to small business in NYC, the amount of businesses dominicans run is impressive considering their background.
 

Don Polo.

Brain Donor
May 9, 2006
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^Not really that just means we can find work doing anything else.

Imagine if we had the small business,proffesional practices,and office jobs.Just like the chinese,the indians and jews?

I think the US born/raised/naturalized are probably making 2-3x more than the rest of the Dominicans.They speak english,they have they're HS or at least a GED,some college education,they're legal and they refuse to take ****ty jobs that pay crap.

That speaks for all latinos?

Maybe,but we can all see it's not as large as an income gap between them as with us,though.:tired:

Like I said looking black or puerto rican to white employers works out in our favor in one sense.
 

Don Polo.

Brain Donor
May 9, 2006
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About remittances.

First off the issue is the amount of remittances not the actual pratice itself.

I think the figures we send back is ridiclous,I read somewhere we send back almost a third of what the country makes.

That's crazy.

I would be better to help relatives over here than to constantly send money back that can be invested in real estate & small business.

Wouldn't you agree?

Also...,how many times have we heard of someone sending cash down every week only to have them leave her at the house for 2 weeks straight when she visits them?

:tired:

If you don't have any immediate family members there you should really focus on your life here.
 

CarpeDReam

New member
Feb 17, 2006
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"Imagine if we had the small business,proffesional practices,and office jobs.Just like the chinese,the indians and jews?"

My point was, we do, just not to their level bc they are generally more educated than us and have a better business understanding from back home.

"Like I said looking black or puerto rican to white employers works out in our favor in one sense."

You continue putting a race issue into this but I don't see how it directly relates.

"I think the figures we send back is ridiclous,I read somewhere we send back almost a third of what the country makes."

It may be a third of the country's economy, but individually, dominicans send as much as they can bare. And just about all of them DO send it to an immediate family: a child, parent, sibling, sometimes an entire immediate family. Few actually send to cousins, aunts, and uncles, and if they do, they could probably afford to do so. Most dominicans come here with the intention to better their life while helping their family's life back home. Even if it takes them longer to get the "american dream," they will do so, but the last thing they would do is have their family starve back home out of selfishness. What good is investing in real estate if you have a sibling, parent, or child back home depending on the chelitos you send them?
 
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deelt

Bronze
Mar 23, 2004
987
2
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Dominicans being considered or confused with Black or Puerto Ricans is not saying much in terms of economic standing. In NYC, Puerto Ricans are economically the 2nd most poorest and African-Americans are the 3rd most poorest. That's the statistical truth.

As for assimilating, everyone assimilates. It's the natural occurence of being from poor immigrant stock.

What some posters fail to see that compared to how folks lived back in DR, regardless of their poverty level, they are better off in the US. Thus, these people feeling able to sent $200-300 back ever few months is actually a motion of their magnanimity and generosity of how better off they feel.

The challenge is how do we change the point of relativity for these Dominicans to show folks how better off they could be. However, the fact is that folks are too busy trying to gain that access by adquiring mangos bajitos, taking the easy money making route that isn't lasting.

Here is a fact of life: Money made with no integrity, never lasts.
 
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Don Polo.

Brain Donor
May 9, 2006
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Not terms of better economic standing..okay.

Yet employeers do (when they hire them that is) assume we can speak english,handle ourselves within an american work enviorment,less legal hassle to hire us,know how the system works,etc..

That and the ease the US born show at taking on the US system at work and school,the legal system ...leads me to belive that brighter days are ahead for dominican americans...Native dominicans in america though are usually S.O.L.
 

Stodgord

Bronze
Nov 19, 2004
668
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The challenge is how do we change the point of relativity for these Dominicans to show folks how better off they could be. However, the fact is that folks are too busy trying to gain that access by adquiring mangos bajitos, taking the easy money making route that isn't lasting.

Here is a fact of life: Money made with no integrity, never lasts.

I cringe everytime April comes around. In our community, all you hear is "tengo que buscarme a alguien que me venda un muchacho para los taxes". Once they get their refund (el grande (for federal) y el chiquito (for state)), they are on the next plane to DR to spend it all.


Another thing I see in our community is the abuse that goes on by those who have the education, the knowledge and the ability to help, towards their fellow countryman. For instance, I have heard of people paying in excess of one thousand dollars for having their immigration and naturalization forms filled out. But then again many Dominicans who need a form filled out don't care to learn how to, they just want it filled out. Lawyers charging a lot for a misdemenor case and not even doing anything. How can we as a community advance when we cut each other's throat at every chance we get and don't have the will to educate ourselves by following simple instruction. It is survival of the fittest at it best.
 

Don Polo.

Brain Donor
May 9, 2006
62
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That refund money should be invested in real estate or CD's not going on some lame trip to DR to visit people that are jealous of you.

As for dominican proffesionals taking advantadge of uneducated dominicans,well that's the breaks and dominicans aren't the only immigrant group that does that..