No Price, No Shame A Lil Accident

jojo2130

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So, I am in La Romana , after a week of work. Sunday morning (around 10:30 AM) and my wife and i hit the road to come back to the North coast.

Still in La Romana I come to a major intersection, and I enter the left turn lane with my signal flashing and I stop. The squeegee boys clean the windshield and we wait for the light. There is a Jeepeta in the lane next to me.

The light turns and I look both ways . And start to proceed into the intersection. I don't move 3 feet when suddenly in my front bumper is a Lunatic Moto . He is racing AGAINST the light , on the WRONG side of the road and in the pedestrian sidewalk and a ridiculous speed.

There was NO WAY to see him with the jeepeta beside me. I Bump him.

There are 2 Amet officers and one comes running to the "scene"

There is minor damage. the "chico" is running around and getting his bike up then he sees me getting out of the car and starts to limp ! LOL

I of course am worried but then he starts yelling how I should be watching where I am going !

I smile, said , hear me well. I pay NOTHING , you are in the wrong.
And I sat on the fender. My wife comes out , the Amet officer is sympathetic to me.

Another Amet officer comes over and we move off to the side of the road.

The Arguement begins! I sat there and smiled. The first Amet officer is smiling and I think amazed too but the second officer tries to convince me that , that is the way it is here !

I pointed to the "ding" on my front bumper and said , Okay I will pay for the ding on his bike and he pays for the ding on my bumper. Seemed like a good deal for HIM since he was clearly in the wrong ! And it is witnessed by the Amet officer. He says no deal, I said CALL THE POLICE.
Amet checked all my Docs and with my up to date Current insurance in hand, looked at the Expired card and tried to say I had none ! LOL
They tried every angle ! It was hilarious !
That about ended it.

it is amazing the nerve that they have. Another man "claiming" to be his father acted aggressive towards me. If it was me I would be booting my son's butt all the way home and telling him how lucky he is to be alive.

It will never cease to amaze me how they put money over all else. How they have no sense of pride or dignity. How they will try to convince you !

He got away with it ! But not the payment ! He would be in jail today in a country with civilized highways .

I thank goodness that it was not worse.........
 

Larry

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Mar 22, 2002
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It will never cease to amaze me how they put money over all else. How they have no sense of pride or dignity. How they will try to convince you !


Very true. That is the biggest cultural hurdle I have had to get over living here. Lie, cheat, swindle and steal and then blame YOU! Absoluelty no shame, pride or dignity.

The attitude is that it is not the person who does the swindlings fault for doing it, rather, it is the fault of the person who got swindled for allowing it to happen.

Larry
 

DominicanScotty

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Well said

Very true. That is the biggest cultural hurdle I have had to get over living here. Lie, cheat, swindle and steal and then blame YOU! Absoluelty no shame, pride or dignity.

The attitude is that it is not the person who does the swindlings fault for doing it, rather, it is the fault of the person who got swindled for allowing it to happen.

Larry


It is a major obstacle to overcome while here. Something somewhat similar happened to me while I was in Puerto Plata. A moto bumped into me and started screaming bloody murder once he saw my white face. This was a bad scene except there was a colonel in the jeepeta with me. While this was all unfolding the colonel sat back and listened. He winked at me and told me to wait. Once it was obvious that this was out of control the colonel got out of he jeepeta and identified himself. It was clearly the motos fault and the stupid cop who was playing ino the moto's story was now clearly in trouble. Then you should have seen the apologies. I know I am more fortunate then most.

Good for the OP to stand his ground. This has to be done more often to back up Larry's observation that this crazy behavior should not/will not be tolerated.
 
Another example of two worlds colliding. Here we have one person perceived to possibly have endless about of wealth and the other perceived to be dirt poor. One a local and another an expat. hmmm who are they going to defend? I think pride, shame, and dignity would be a bad way to measure this episode and would only apply if all things were equal between the two parties but perceptions changed all that. I wonder if you were another local, would the outcome be the same. Probably not. You were the odd one in the mix. No insult intended. You represented an opportunity for someone possible less fortunate than you. You were a lottery ticket.

Just like the states. How many times have you seen when a city bus gets in an accident and over the half the passengers on the bus come crawling out the bus claiming they got a neck injury. Same point. The bus system is perceived to have endless amount of money that the bus riders beleived they could cash in on and these are middle to lower income American citizens and would probably win a settlement in a CIVIL court. LEGALLY.

Basically, bad luck for you but it was neat how you interacted with them.
 

DominicanScotty

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You bring up a very good point...but

Another example of two worlds colliding. Here we have one person perceived to possibly have endless about of wealth and the other perceived to be dirt poor. One a local and another an expat. hmmm who are they going to defend? I think pride, shame, and dignity would be a bad way to measure this episode and would only apply if all things were equal between the two parties but perceptions changed all that. I wonder if you were another local, would the outcome be the same. Probably not. You were the odd one in the mix. No insult intended. You represented an opportunity for someone possible less fortunate than you. You were a lottery ticket.

Just like the states. How many times have you seen when a city bus gets in an accident and over the half the passengers on the bus come crawling out the bus claiming they got a neck injury. Same point. The bus system is perceived to have endless amount of money that the bus riders beleived they could cash in on and these are middle to lower income American citizens and would probably win a settlement in a CIVIL court. LEGALLY.

Basically, bad luck for you but it was neat how you interacted with them.

I acknowledge your point as well. I understand that this is considered a lottery ticket for the moto. However, the behavior of the police is what is at question here not the moto who is probably a poor fellow seeking an opportunity to "cash in". The daggone police is at fault and it was un professional as to one of these Amet officer's actions. They both witnessed it and one of them goes off on a tangent that the OP was at fault when it was obviously the moto's fault. Police are supossed to be impartial. If not then they should be relieved of their duties.

Same crap happened to me however I was lucky to have a colonel in my jeepeta with me otherwise I would have been in trouble (for a short time anyway). Once the cop realized he was messing with a colonel he started attacking the moto. Strange...very strange indeed.
 

Larry

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Mar 22, 2002
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Sancochojoe brings up a good point. I, of course, cannot see it from the other side and don't consider that view. I do believe, however, that if the shoe was on the other foot I would think differently. In saying that, I am making that statement purely based on the accident that the OP described and not other potential scenarios.

My comment on the attitude toward cheating, swindling, etc. was not made with the idea that one party would be Dominican and the other a foreigner but I feel it applies to the culture in general. Dominicans try to swindle each other all the time and it is not a matter of being poor because the guy with the nice clothes and the jeppeta will screw you the hardest if he sees opportunity and will do so with no remorse or conscience. Additionally, he dosen't care who knows it. Thats why I said that the general attitude is that it is the persons fault for allowing himself to be swindled and not the fault of the swindler for being a scumbag (for lack of a better term).

I apoligize to Dominicans reading this because I know it sounds like I am painting with a broad brush. Obviously, this does not apply to all Dominicans, however, it permeates the culture and is something that we as ex-pats need to be aware of.

Larry
 

trina

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Dominicans try to swindle each other all the time and it is not a matter of being poor because the guy with the nice clothes and the jeppeta will screw you the hardest if he sees opportunity and will do so with no remorse or conscience. Additionally, he dosen't care who knows it. Thats why I said that the general attitude is that it is the persons fault for allowing himself to be swindled and not the fault of the swindler for being a scumbag (for lack of a better term).

I apoligize to Dominicans reading this because I know it sounds like I am painting with a broad brush. Obviously, this does not apply to all Dominicans, however, it permeates the culture and is something that we as ex-pats need to be aware of.

Larry


I hate to agree on this, because like you said, I don't want to paint everyone with the same brush, and I think the majority of Dominicans are very good people. However. My husband has been fixing up the family house in the DR. When he went back the last time, he built a new bathroom and shower, a new roof, and replaced the doors and windows. The man who was building and replacing the doors put the doors on and was going to paint them after they'd been put on. A little backwards? Well, Angel came back to Canada, and the only thing left to do was apply the paint to the doors. Two weeks, the doors hadn't been touched. Two weeks turned into 5 months, and Angel calling about a dozen times and threatening this man. Finally, after 5 months of chasing this installer, it was done. Had it not been for the persistence of my husband, the doors never would have been painted. There were only 2 doors. Stuff like this, I just don't get.
 
I hate to agree on this, because like you said, I don't want to paint everyone with the same brush, and I think the majority of Dominicans are very good people. However. My husband has been fixing up the family house in the DR. When he went back the last time, he built a new bathroom and shower, a new roof, and replaced the doors and windows. The man who was building and replacing the doors put the doors on and was going to paint them after they'd been put on. A little backwards? Well, Angel came back to Canada, and the only thing left to do was apply the paint to the doors. Two weeks, the doors hadn't been touched. Two weeks turned into 5 months, and Angel calling about a dozen times and threatening this man. Finally, after 5 months of chasing this installer, it was done. Had it not been for the persistence of my husband, the doors never would have been painted. There were only 2 doors. Stuff like this, I just don't get.

Sounds like your average General Home Contracter here in the States I always have to deal with. God I hate people like that. I had to go through 3 contractors to get my heating duc work done. Thats simple work ethic. That has to be taught.

The only lesson for stuff like that is, DONT PAY UNTIL AFTER THE WORK IS DONE.
 

trina

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Sounds like your average General Home Contracter here in the States I always have to deal with. God I hate people like that. I had to go through 3 contractors to get my heating duc work done. Thats simple work ethic. That has to be taught.

The only lesson for stuff like that is, DONT PAY UNTIL AFTER THE WORK IS DONE.

Totally agreed. I'm sure I could find many stories like this where I live, too. My husband always wants to be the 'nice guy', and that's why he paid upfront...his mistake...what he did learn as well was not to ever recommend this contractor to anyone, or to ever use this same contractor again.
 

Lambada

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Similar story to jojo but no police........

Last Friday I reversed out of Tropical, Puerto Plata parking lot into a completely empty street, no traffic either side. Just as I had reversed a concho pulled up very close to my rear, could see him in rear view mirror, but we didn't touch. He then drove alongside me mouthing displeasure. I asked what his problem was since HE had driven up behind me (I hadn't reversed into him & our vehicles didn't touch in any event). He drove ahead of me, I think expecting me to pull over. There was nothing to pull over for, nor any pedestrians in sight, so I proceeded, slowly, on my way. He then follows me and once again drives ahead of me & picks up a rather large stone. By this time I'm in a street with street repairs of cars going on, plenty of stationary people. I am in the car on my own, by the way. So now it is safer to stop, I do.
According to him, I'm responsible for his buckled front mudguard! He obviously had had some sort of a crunch, but not with me. I parked right in the middle of an intersection so would get other people's attention. I got out of my car - inspected the rear, no marks, nothing. His story was his front wheel had gone UNDER the rear of my car. So I told him to bring his bike round & we'd measure it. Of course his wheel was too high to fit under my rear - had his wheel been under my rear the bike would have been on its side & he would have been horizontal.
The 'audience' were terrific ;) - all shouting their insights, diagnosing his problem etc etc On their bidding he put the stone down, safely, and they all concurred that no way could the 'accident' have happened in the way he described. Slowly he climbed down from his indignantly self-righteous position. One of the older street repairers said quietly to me to get on my way and they would keep the guy talking until I was out of sight. So off I went, choosing a route which had a lot of traffic.
This was a try on by someone who had probably had an accident minutes before & took off because he was at fault; then needed to find a 'target' to fund his repairs. Middle-aged gringa travelling alone looked to be a suitable target. But she wasn't. I looked for him today in the same area, but no joy. I had lined up a couple of people to 'have a chat' with him........;)
But as far as labelling people is concerned, all I'll probably remember by next month, is how helpful the audience was.
 

jojo2130

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While I empathize with what you are saying, people DO either extrapalate all possible or take advantages of the laws , especially in America, frivolous lawsuits and the like but that is more a problem with the SYSTEM. When someone is in the wrong they want the wrongdoer to pay. The court system is designed to try and weed these out.

What was different in my case was that i was clearly NOT in the wrong and they still wanted me to pay . Because I was non-native. If something like that happened on more civilized highways, the moto driver would have been forced to pay, ticketed , if not arrested, and his father would most likely have been trying to swat him in the head for being so stupid !

If it was Dominican vs Dominican, moto vs jeepeta, I would surmise that the moto boy would have been begging forgiveness before the jeepeta owner popped him. According to my Dominican wife , that is exactly what would have happened.

Also, I do not condone nor agree with your statement "You represented an opportunity for someone possible less fortunate than you. You were a lottery ticket.. Does that mean that if I see a person , white or Dominican, I have to right to try and take advantage of him via lies? Maybe ram his jeepeta with my cheapy little car and claim it was his fault ? There would be pandamonium if that was to be accepted behavior.

AS some of you know , I accept and roll with alot of the "cultural" aspects of my adopted home but I will NOT be taken advantage of in this way. Contrary to THAT , if I WAS in the wrong I would have been only too willing to make it right.



Another example of two worlds colliding. Here we have one person perceived to possibly have endless about of wealth and the other perceived to be dirt poor. One a local and another an expat. hmmm who are they going to defend? I think pride, shame, and dignity would be a bad way to measure this episode and would only apply if all things were equal between the two parties but perceptions changed all that. I wonder if you were another local, would the outcome be the same. Probably not. You were the odd one in the mix. No insult intended. You represented an opportunity for someone possible less fortunate than you. You were a lottery ticket.

Just like the states. How many times have you seen when a city bus gets in an accident and over the half the passengers on the bus come crawling out the bus claiming they got a neck injury. Same point. The bus system is perceived to have endless amount of money that the bus riders beleived they could cash in on and these are middle to lower income American citizens and would probably win a settlement in a CIVIL court. LEGALLY.

Basically, bad luck for you but it was neat how you interacted with them.
 

bob saunders

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Do you really think it would be any different than if say: you were a New Yorker in some little town in the southern states and had an accident with Billy-Bob or Bubba. The local sheriff would probably side with the good old boy.
Good decision not to pay.
 

jojo2130

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I am Canadian, but I would think that the good ole billy bob days are over in the south arent they ? Even so, when something is somewhat ambiguous then there is always 3 sides to the story.
But mine was blatant, witnessed by "police" (Amet) and dozens of other people but STILL there was a demand and my Dominican wife was taken aside buy one chico and told "Thats the way it is here , you know that ! Just Pay! " He bit off more than he could chew with my Fran , who protects me like a tigress ! hehehehe ! He soon left the scene rather than to get a further earful from her with her hands on her hips and her head rolling on her neck ! Those of you married to Dominicanas know what I mean ! LOL




Do you really think it would be any different than if say: you were a New Yorker in some little town in the southern states and had an accident with Billy-Bob or Bubba. The local sheriff would probably side with the good old boy.
Good decision not to pay.
 

AZB

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funny how people still make a mountian out of nothing. I once hit a pasola and even a standing Amet cop. yes, I hit amet cop once because I was looking through the side window and not looking ahead where I should be..
Am I jail, did I pay anything? Not a dime. You just play it smart and as long as people are not hurt, no one gets into trouble. I really Had to BS with the angry amet cop to get myself out of trouble.
The bottom line in this: If you act like a victim, you will become a victim. learn dominican language and learn the tigraje. Then make friends with powerful people in this country and you will be trouble free for a good length of time here.
 

jojo2130

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funny how people still make a mountian out of nothing. I once hit a pasola and even a standing Amet cop. yes, I hit amet cop once because I was looking through the side window and not looking ahead where I should be..
Am I jail, did I pay anything? Not a dime. You just play it smart and as long as people are not hurt, no one gets into trouble. I really Had to BS with the angry amet cop to get myself out of trouble.
The bottom line in this: If you act like a victim, you will become a victim. learn dominican language and learn the tigraje. Then make friends with powerful people in this country and you will be trouble free for a good length of time here.


Do you think, that somehow WE cultivate this attitude and behavior?
 

Danny W

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There is no doubt that we gringos are perceived as marks by many Dominicans, and to some extent it is like a tax we pay for being rich (comparatively) people living in a foreign country. As long as it remains on a petty level, it's annoying, to be avoided if possible.. but tolerable. The problem is when it goes beyond petty.

I hope as the years go by and I live more less permanently in the house I am building, that it doesn't become too much to tolerate. I know that if there is real danger, I'm out of there. I have no intention of spending my golden years as a frontiersman. I just hope the petty day to day bull**it of the motoscammers and the like doesn't wear me down. I've certainly had my share of it.

I think it's up to me to weigh the good against the bad. The petty crap will always be there.
 

DominicanScotty

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Hmmmmmmmmmmmm no....

I am Canadian, but I would think that the good ole billy bob days are over in the south arent they ? Even so, when something is somewhat ambiguous then there is always 3 sides to the story.
But mine was blatant, witnessed by "police" (Amet) and dozens of other people but STILL there was a demand and my Dominican wife was taken aside buy one chico and told "Thats the way it is here , you know that ! Just Pay! " He bit off more than he could chew with my Fran , who protects me like a tigress ! hehehehe ! He soon left the scene rather than to get a further earful from her with her hands on her hips and her head rolling on her neck ! Those of you married to Dominicanas know what I mean ! LOL

Things are still like that down yonder. They look out for their own good ole boys and don't like those folks from up yonder, Yankees....ahhh and that includes Canadians.

But I am glad that you stood up to these guys. Good for you, good for us all.
 

Larry

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Things are still like that down yonder. They look out for their own good ole boys and don't like those folks from up yonder, Yankees....ahhh and that includes Canadians.

But I am glad that you stood up to these guys. Good for you, good for us all.


If you are driving around the southern states with a NY license plate on your car, I can GUARANTEE you you will be pulled over a disproportionate number of times. I am not just talking about Texas, Louisiana, etc., I am talking anywhere south of New Jersey.

Larry
 
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jojo2130

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I spent alot of time in the southern US With Quebec plates !
Never once pulled over but then again maybe they thought I spoke only french !
Having European plates and all !

heheheheh


If you are driving around the southern states with a NY license plate on your car, I can GUARANTEE you you will be pulled over a disproportionate number of times. I am not just talking about Texas, Louisiana, etc., I am talking anywhere south of New Jersey.

Larry