Status of Santo Domingo

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Snuffy

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May 3, 2002
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I was just in Santo Domingo. Haven't been there in some time. I was surprised to find it to be more of a mess than in the past. I saw zero growth. The roads were in worse condition. Coming in on the freeway there is that huge hole in the ground where they were going to build a large building. It appears to have been abandoned. What is the status of the metro? People I talk to say they have cut back on building it. I didn't notice much progress on what I was able to see. I did see a lot of nice new police vehicles cruising the highways with lights flashing.

So I am curious to know what is actually going on in Santo Domingo. Have they slowed down the metro project? Just seems like a complete waste if they can't complete this project. They could have taken that money and invested in the roads and made the place so much more nicer.
 

monster

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Oct 16, 2005
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The Metro seems to be the only thing that's getting done in DR. At the rate they're working on it I wouldnt be surprise if they finish ahead of schedule.
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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The headline in one of the papers today 'Investment in Metro exceeds health, education and public works'

Inversión en Metro supera salud, educación y OP
El gobierno destinó en agosto pasado más recursos a la construcción del Metro de Santo Domingo que a tres secretarias en conjunto en gastos de capital: Educación, Salud Pública y Obras Públicas. La Oficina Para el Reordenamiento del Transporte (OPRET), que construye el Metro, recibió en agosto RD$697 millones, según la Oficina Nacional de Presupuesto (ONAPRES). Mientras las tres carteras recibieron RD$685 millones.

In August, the government allocated more funds to the Metro (RD$697 million) than the other three departments combined (RD$685 million).

"What a country!"
 

qgrande

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Jul 27, 2005
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The headline in one of the papers today 'Investment in Metro exceeds health, education and public works'

Inversi?n en Metro supera salud, educaci?n y OP


In August, the government allocated more funds to the Metro (RD$697 million) than the other three departments combined (RD$685 million).

"What a country!"

That seems outrageous and pretty unbelievable, but it appears that the running costs of schools and hospitals and teacher and doctor's salaries are not included. In the article the allocated funds named for the other three departments are only those for construction and maintenance of school and hospital buildings and such. It could of course be that that is all the government does and it didn't spend any money on doctors, medicine, teachers, and equipment, but it could also be that those costs are left out and the figures mentioned are only those for investment in construction, not everything the government spends on education and public health. Than the headline that more is spend on the metro than on health, education and public works is somewhat of a distortion. Nevertheless, that more is being spend on the construction of a metro than on the construction of schools and hospitals is already bad enough.
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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Many more people will see the headline than read the article. ::guilty as charged::
 

CFA123

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May 29, 2004
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My first reaction to the Metro was "WHAT!?".

Then I had to go back and think about other large projects that I've seen in DR.

First, the Pto Plata airport... my first trips to the island were landing there when there was little more than a small building. The new airport facility has enabled the processing of more flights and will allow for continuing growth of the north coast tourist industry. I was not aware of conversations on the topic, but I suspect many questioned the money being spent there at the time.

Second, Santiago airport (privately built). I couldn't see how Santiago would have a lot of flights since it wasn't a tourist hub. Well, I've since become aware of the high % of the DR population that have Santiago as their closest airport. So, while many questioned the wisdom at the time... look at the number of flights daily and how it facilitates doing business in the city. (and you don't have to worry so much about running off the old short runway on landing or hitting cerros de gurabo on takeoff!).

The 'flyover' in Santiago on Estrella Sadhalla or the flyovers in the capital also had their detractors - but boy do they come in handy today!

Now, the Metro. My first reaction was "oh yeah, brilliant :ermm: ". But, when you're doing 'big things' you have to look to the impact on the future. Drive around the capital today during rush hour. It's heavily congested and will just get worse. Consider those who can't afford to live in the heart of the city but need to get there for their jobs and don't have cars or direct bus routes (more buses clog streets). It should over the long term make much more of the city accessible to those who couldn't reasonably commute for jobs today due to distance or cost.

Think of New York City without its subway. How would it function today? Could it even be the city that it's become?

Large public works stand out much more in DR than they do in the U.S., but there are some good minds at work in DR with an eye to the future. I hope they prove the detractors wrong and the Metro is great for the city.
 

Robert

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Jan 2, 1999
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CFA123, the only people that think the Metro is a good idea are the people making a ton of cash from building it. I have yet to hear a Dominican or urban transit specialist say the Metro is good for Santo Domingo. This thing is eating up cash faster than Ramoncito (Baninter) and that's saying something.

The middle class and up will not use the Metro, just like they don't use carro publicos or OMSA buses, but it looks like they will be the only ones able to afford to ride it.

Carro publico = RD$15
Metro = RD$65-75 (projected cost)
 

suarezn

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Feb 3, 2002
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Coming in on the freeway there is that huge hole in the ground where they were going to build a large building. It appears to have been abandoned.

The story on that huge hole is that supposedly they started building and then the real owner of the land showed up (supposedly a rich haitian guy)...and they are still on litigation. All hearsay...
 

CFA123

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May 29, 2004
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Robert,
I appreciate the response. I knew I would be swimming upstream on this one, but decided to jump in anyway. I don't want to appear naive, I have my doubts about the validity of the project, too. I've just learned that sometimes the general public (myself included) doesn't think long term and prefers to knock a project. Lord knows it's a lot more fun.

I'm hoping Leonel's vision of the benefits for the city are on target. My personal belief is he does have the best interest of the country and its people in mind as opposed to his own personal wealth. Unfortunately the same can't be said for the rest of the government.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Robert,
I appreciate the response. I knew I would be swimming upstream on this one, but decided to jump in anyway. I don't want to appear naive, I have my doubts about the validity of the project, too. I've just learned that sometimes the general public (myself included) doesn't think long term and prefers to knock a project. Lord knows it's a lot more fun.

I'm hoping Leonel's vision of the benefits for the city are on target. My personal belief is he does have the best interest of the country and its people in mind as opposed to his own personal wealth. Unfortunately the same can't be said for the rest of the government.

On your other post you mention whether NY would have become the city that it has if it's metro was never constructed. The answer is NO.

The metro (or subway) is the most efficient way to travel across that metropolis. Of course, the upper classes don't use the metro, but then again it's the lower classes who can't afford to live in the core of the city and yet, are the one's filling the menial job positions which exist in the core of such city.

Another thing that helped the NYC metro area become what it has become was the expansion of its commuter rail lines into long island, northern New Jersey and into Westchester County as well as far into Fairfield County in Connecticut. Every morning commuters stuck on bumper to bumper traffic on I-95 southbound heading towards NYC have to "suffer" the misery of seeing several Metro North rail trains bypass them on the rail lines adjacent to the highway.

Drive time into the city (midtown Manhattan) from Fairfield County, CT: Around 60 minutes without traffic (hardly the case). Often it easily becomes a 2 hour ride for a plus/minus 30 mile stretch oneway. And once in Manhattan, it could take hours to reach your destination, pay exortibant parking fees, do your business/personal matter, and drive back to Connecticut!

Yet, train ride into Manhattan from CT: 30 minutes on the express train which goes straight to Grand Central. From there, can hop into the subway and the time it takes to arrive to your destination is cut tremendously. Only flying by helicopter will be quicker!

Now, referring to Santo Domingo; the city is going to need a metro. Many may not see the need or may not have faith in the project, but it's obvious the city will need a fast and efficient transit project that will not burden the roadways that already are clogged in rush hour.

Santo Domingo is growing fast, it's changing fast. It's already a major city and half the country's population still lives in the COUNTRYSIDE. Not to mention that 80% of Haiti's population still lives in the country and with the current rate of illegal migration from Haiti to DR, it may not be too far fetched to believe that a good chunck of Haiti's rural population (certainly many of the children who will grow up to become working age adults) might just end up in Santo Domingo anyway.

So, today Santo Domingo has especially horrible traffic during rush hour, but tomorrow it could be at all hours.

Remember the complaints about the tunnels and expressways? Hard to imagine traveling through Santo Domingo without them, eh?

-NALs
 

Tallman1680

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Oct 7, 2006
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I agree with you NALs, Santo Domingo will not be able to be develop into a major city without this Metro, during the construction of the tunnels and the elevated expressway there was a lot complaints from people that did not have faith on this kind of mega project or just never seen such idea for DR, by the fact is that Santo Domingo residence need a major transportation system.
The same kind of complains are being say about the "Big Dig" construction on Boston going on right now, "too much money", "not a priority"; but those same people will get to see the benefit in another 10 year when the city gets more crower.
 

Larry

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Mar 22, 2002
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I dont see the point of the metro other than the fact that people are making money developing it as Robert said.

Sano Domingo is so class conscious that people who believe they are or want to project the impression that they are middle class or higher will not use it. The poor will continue using the cheapest mode of transpitation they have which is carros publicos or gua guas. To there people, 75 rd is a lot of money. Why would they pay 75 pesos to get where they are going when they have been and can continue to pay 10 pesos using a publico.

I am also curious to see how they plan to police the metro. The cops here do not have the training to police a huge underground system such as this. They dont have radios that will work underground and subway systems are a haven for criminals if they are not policed properly because of the ability to quickly disappear within the system. It took a looooong time for the NYC subway system to become as safe as it is today. Twenty years ago, NYC transit cops didn't have proper radios to communicate which each other and the subways were a dangerous place. Now, compare the average Dominican cop with a NYC transit cop after his intense training and after years of experience.

I bet that 6 months after the metro is opened, it will be nothing more than a garbage littered, crime infested disaster. It wont generate any revenue but rather, will drink up money that should be allocated towards more important areas out of necessity to sustain its operating costs.

Larry
 
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dv8

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Sep 27, 2006
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underground gua gua

when i have heard about metro project i imagined a string of rusty gua guas branded with hardly decipherable RUTA F or RUTA D labels, squeezing through the tunnels, drivers honking their horns.
since then i have seen santo domingo and i know that it is in a desperate need of a transport reform.
i am pretty sure that middle or upper class will still drive ther SUVs (one per person in a family) and despise underground like any other form of public transport (nobody in my novio's family ever uses public transport even if their lives depended on it).
maybe a "big dig santo domingo", similar to the boston one, would be a better solution...
as to projected prices - london's tube is very pricey too but londoners have different attitudes and they CAN afford it.
i wish dominican good luck with their metro, maybe it will be next generation who will appreciate it more?
 

Tallman1680

On Vacation
Oct 7, 2006
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The Santo Domingo Metro is the begining of the new transit organization in Republica Dominicana, futhure Dominicans will get the benefits of what must people today belive to be a huge mistake and waste of money, is something that is need it, and what will follow such as a rail way to the north and east of the island will take Republica Dominicana to the next economic level.
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
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How can you compare the tunnels and expressways to the Metro, what a ridiculous comment. This is a typical comment from someone that doesn't live here and has no real understanding of day to day life in the DR, how things work, how people think etc etc.

When was the last time you drove in Santo Domingo? NAL's, please tell me what condition the tunnels are in right now? Of course you can't, so let me tell you. They are falling apart, no wall tiles, dirty, bad lighting. Forget exhaust fume extraction or fire prevention, they stole all that stuff a long time ago. If you want to see the future of the Metro, look no further than todays tunnels and expressways or better still, OMSA buses.

Preventative maintenance, project longevity or sustainability are not in the culture here. This country is not capable of maintaining a Metro, this is the problem.

What are they capable of doing? Spending massive amounts of tax payers money, taking on a huge amount of debt and at the same time line their own pockets. They couldn't careless about the longevity of the project or if it's still capable of functioning in 4 years. It's about the graft of the few, not the benefit of the many.

NAL's, please leave you utopic BS mentality at the door, this is the Dominican Republic!
 

suarezn

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Feb 3, 2002
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While the Metro construction goes on at an accelerated pace, The DR continues to lag every country (except Haiti) in Latin America in spending on education, healthcare, and other basic needs. How do we ever expect to make it out of the third world if we don't spend on education?

The money already spent in Metro construction is nothing compared to the yearly outlays (subsidies) the government will have to spend just to keep this thing running. It will never turn a profit and as long as there are cheaper ways to get around town, people won't use it. To make it "affordable" the government will have subsidize it heavily with tax dollars that again could be spent on real development.
 

castleburger

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Sep 4, 2006
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excuse me for being a realist. new york grew and became what it is because of a subway "system". one single line wont solve anything. espescially in an area that didnt suffer a traffic problem. when in the capitol i would use maximo gomez when possible because the traffic always flowed. so lets look at the average customer. ride a motoconcho or in a public car....get on the metro.....take a motoconcho or public car to their final destination. the problem with the traffic in the capitol is caused by a single problem.... public cars and guaguas stopping at will in the middle of the street to take on or let off passengers. the metro will not solve this problem. however, a real bus system with marked stops. discontinue the use of the guaguas, and public cars, giving those drivers jobs within the bus system, and make passengers illegal on motorcycles less than 500 cc, and the transportation problem is solved.
a single line subway....please....que ridiculoso....
 
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