NGOs doing a good or bad job?

Do you support the NGOs actions in illicitly helping foreigners get DR citizenship?

  • Yes, I support the NGOs actions.

    Votes: 3 30.0%

  • No, I don't support the NGOs actions.

    Votes: 7 70.0%
  • Total voters
    10
NALs

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,474
3,183
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Today's (Friday, October 6, 2006) DR1 news report included the following:

Illegal Haitians linked to JCE

Diario Libre is reporting the possibility that Central Electoral Board (JCE) workers are involved in the irregular issue of late birth declarations for Haitians illegally residing in the country. Diario Libre says they have received reports of Haitians who were caught with forged documents, and named JCE workers who allegedly helped them to obtain the fakes. Many of the Haitians also claimed that NGOs that defend Haitians had helped them in the process. The JCE offices at La Feria, Los Minas, Ensanche Luperon, Villa Mella and Boca Chica are among those being investigated.

The question for this poll is the following:

Do you support the actions of NGOs helping illegal immigrants gain false documents via corrupt and illicit ways in an attempt to "Dominicanize" Haitian citizens?

A) Yes, I support the NGOs actions.

B) No, I don't support the NGOs actions.

-NALs
 
D

deelt

Bronze
Mar 23, 2004
987
2
0
Please don't think you can frame such questions for a living. This is one of the egregiously biased questions I've ever read.
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Unless the NCO officially (or unofficially) sanctions the actions of individuals acting in a corrupt fashion, the organization has nothing to do with it.

The individuals are the ones who are corrupt.
 
NALs

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,474
3,183
113
deelt said:
Please don't think you can frame such questions for a living. This is one of the egregiously biased questions I've ever read.
Click to expand...

Can you please pin point where exactly does the question becomes "egregiously biased"?

It can't be the "NGOs helping illegal immigrants" part, because NGOs are doing just that.

It can't be the "gain false documents" part, because according to the news report many NGOs are doing that.

And it can't be the "via corrupt and illicit ways in an attempt to "Dominicanize" Haitian citizens" part, because again, many NGOs are doing that as well!

And it can't be the answers available either. Choosing between "Yes, I support the NGOs actions" vs "No, I don't support the NGOs actions" is not biased in any sense of the word.

So, where exactly is the "egregiously bias" with this question?

Sure, corruption within the JCE is the final link between illegals gaining faux citizenship and they should be subjected to the full weight of the law. However, there is a difference between individuals who ignore the laws and organizations that do the same.

And like the Catholic church, one cannot expect the organization to not be aware of the illicit practices some of its members have been commiting just how the head of the church knew of the molestation cases.

So, where is the "bias"?

If anything, this is controversial topic, but bias? Hardly.

-NALs
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
NALs said:
And like the Catholic church, one cannot expect the organization to not be aware of the illicit practices some of its members have been commiting just how the head of the church knew of the molestation cases.

-NALs
Click to expand...
This statement is so wrong. Anyone who has ever run any business or organization of any size knows it is impossible to know what EVERY employee/associate is doing officially or unofficially. In fact, often the guy at the top is the last to know.

IMO, your assertion is too black and white. I couldn't (and didn't) vote either way.
 
NALs

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,474
3,183
113
cobraboy said:
This statement is so wrong. Anyone who has ever run any business or organization of any size knows it is impossible to know what EVERY employee/associate is doing officially or unofficially. In fact, often the guy at the top is the last to know.

IMO, your assertion is too black and white. I couldn't (and didn't) vote either way.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are right cobraboy.

However, the original Diario Libre report regarding this issue states the following:

"... hace m?s de 15 a?os ciudadanos haitianos de diferentes puntos del pa?s son ayudados desde el propio seno de la JCE y mediante la asistencia de ONG a obtener actas de nacimiento y posteriormente la C?dula de Identidad."

In English that would be the following:

" ... for more than 15 years Haitian citizens from different places of the country have received help from employees at the JCE and from NGOs in obtaining [false] birth certificates and afterwards a C?dula."

15 years is plenty of time for at least some information about the irregularities being commited by any member of an NGO to reach "the guy on top.

The original Diario Libre article is right here:

Diario Libre Online

-NALs
 
D

deelt

Bronze
Mar 23, 2004
987
2
0
Since you have all the answers why are you even polling? Why even inquire?

Your response is reflective of your lack of objectivity that is crucial in the framing of ANY poll, if it is ever to be taken seriously. It reinforces the message that the framing is in fact loaded and biased.

NALs said:
Can you please pin point where exactly does the question becomes "egregiously biased"?

It can't be the "NGOs helping illegal immigrants" part, because NGOs are doing just that.

It can't be the "gain false documents" part, because according to the news report many NGOs are doing that.

And it can't be the "via corrupt and illicit ways in an attempt to "Dominicanize" Haitian citizens" part, because again, many NGOs are doing that as well!

And it can't be the answers available either. Choosing between "Yes, I support the NGOs actions" vs "No, I don't support the NGOs actions" is not biased in any sense of the word.

So, where exactly is the "egregiously bias" with this question?

Sure, corruption within the JCE is the final link between illegals gaining faux citizenship and they should be subjected to the full weight of the law. However, there is a difference between individuals who ignore the laws and organizations that do the same.

And like the Catholic church, one cannot expect the organization to not be aware of the illicit practices some of its members have been commiting just how the head of the church knew of the molestation cases.

So, where is the "bias"?

If anything, this is controversial topic, but bias? Hardly.

-NALs
Click to expand...
 
NALs

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,474
3,183
113
deelt said:
Since you have all the answers why are you even polling? Why even inquire?

Your response is reflective of your lack of objectivity that is crucial in the framing of ANY poll, if it is ever to be taken seriously. It reinforces the message that the framing is in fact loaded and biased.
Click to expand...
I don't create polls for my own good, because I don't give a rats what any DR1ers thinks or feel about any topic the polls have covered thus far.

HOWEVER, many DR1ers obviously do and for that reason, I create these poll.

More often than not, the topics and questions are not my own, but rather offered as suggestions by members of this board. In fact, the constant criticism some people give of the polls has created a change in the way DR1ers suggest poll ideas via PM.

They used to send PM's suggesting a poll and they used to write the questions and answer options. Ever since you guys started to criticize a poll which was truly a creation of AnnaC, not only has she begun to change the way she makes suggestions (asking me to come up with the questions while she and others gives the topic), but rather they seem to have been affected by the constant downgrading some of you shamelessly and with no reason attack these polls.

Even though most of you are attacking me and not necessarily the polls, you are using the poll to attack me thinking that I come up with all this stuff when in fact a minority of the polls are actually of my own, the rest were basically suggestions from several members you critics "love" so much and yet, criticized their thoughts and inquires represented through the polls they suggested.

?Mija, a veces usted necesita callarse!

-NALs
 
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