Black or white, rich or poor...

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Robert

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Jan 2, 1999
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Consider this a one time offer to get it off your chest :)

If you have something to say about rasicm, chopos, jevitos, Hatians, ricitos, privones, fantamosos, rellambidos, presumidos, dominican yorks etc etc...

Note: This thread will be closed at sometime in the near future, that I'm sure of :)
 
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chuckuindy

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The problem is that every generation believes that it has obliterated discrimanation, yet it still exists.

Chuckuindy
 

dv8

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!

this i find strange, having lived in london, where a word black can be only used in conjunction with "little" and "dress" i was amazed to hear some distant cousin of my novio calling her maids "negra". and they did not mind!
 

planner

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dv8 - for the most part they are just descriptives. For example Rubia - only denotes you are blonde. But then the assumption is rich foreigner looking to part with her money....LOL

When I first got here I would hear lots of flaca or gordo and I used to get upset for other people. Then I realized that is normal here.
 

Robert

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this i find strange, having lived in london, where a word black can be only used in conjunction with "little" and "dress" i was amazed to hear some distant cousin of my novio calling her maids "negra". and they did not mind!

Just like they will call a fat kid, "gordito" or a blonde haired person "rubio" and oriental looking person "chino" etc etc.

I guess they are not hung up on it and had it rammed down their throats by radicals, do gooders etc over the years. What many of us see as racist comments, Dominicans see as normal. Who's right and who's messed up?

All the political correctness BS is one of the reasons this cracker honky white boy could never see himself living back in the UK or similar country.
 

wishingiwasthere

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From one Cracker honky white boy to another you do miss the UK in some ways though Robert - God Bless Hookey Street!

( Sorry to all non Brits - your probably wouldnt understand )
 
Sep 19, 2005
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I think the term Racist is a relatively new ( last 50 years) politically correct catch phase to open a venue for complaining...

While I understand the complaint, and it is neccesary to make all sure all people have equal rights in reguards to citizenship in america.....

I also think that certain political activists have done their dammdest to make sure it lives...so they have a profession.....so as long as there is a microscope available.. they will never comsider "racism" gone

when in fact there will always be people who hate other kinds of people

heck isnt the hatred of americans by iraqi's a kind of racism??

hatred by religion isnt as important as racism by color?

I see no difference...hatred isnt good at all

usually people who claim they are biased against via racism.....just want to vent and pull that racism card way too prematurely.

So many people in the 70's and 80's got so many miles out of that racism card.. that everyone thinks its the goose that laid the golden egg.

i think the Indians were treated 10 times worse than blacks in america....

But that is just my view....

I think I have an open mind and develop thoughts based on information that come sthrough my senses...not something ingrained in my head!

my father went through about 10 years at his company, AT&T..where he worked his butt and was doing great things in the company and was heading up fast... then all of the sudden there was an edict handed down

propmote minorities...blacks and women especially...so if you worked at AT&T and were a black woman, you were a golden choice for promotion for many years there...but My father wasnt bitter...he just worked harder to be one of the fewe white men to get a promotion...and I am not bitter.... I think I am allowed to Note it now and then though .

to me everyone comes to me with an clean slate, even if there is an air of "just watch a little closer".....and if no flags come up...you are treated as the next person...

I hope people can keep their head in this thread...it would be nice to let it ride long enough to let everyone express their opinion........

bob
 

Music

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Iheck isnt the hatred of americans by iraqi's a kind of racism??
I agree!

I think the Indians were treated 10 times worse than blacks in america....

my father went through about 10 years at his company, AT&T..where he worked his butt and was doing great things in the company and was heading up fast... then all of the sudden there was an edict handed down

propmote minorities...blacks and women especially...so if you worked at AT&T and were a black woman, you were a golden choice for promotion for many years there...but My father wasnt bitter...he just worked harder to be one of the fewe white men to get a promotion...and I am not bitter.... I think I am allowed to Note it now and then though .

to me everyone comes to me with an clean slate, even if there is an air of "just watch a little closer".....and if no flags come up...you are treated as the next person...

bob

Any bad treatment of people is bad not one can way out the other in my opinion. Black slavery went way back and went on for a very long time. They were treated horribly I don't see how anyone could not agree with that. I've heard people say it's in the past they need to move on, move on to what there is still so much bad treatment today it's not much different just done in different ways. It exists very much!
I do also think Indians have been treated horribly, just isn't right and not many people even care it's just wrong.
I dont' think it should be compared as treatment of both Indians and Blacks or anyone else as they have all equally been treated horribly.

I understand your fustration and I've been in that position myself, but the reality is if they didn't have this set up to promote minorities the reality is people woud not get the same opportunity for a job.
But the reality is it would be a lot easier for me to get a job.

To be honest I will never no what it's like because I am not black but I now can understand. I have seen many people I love go through many situations all involving racism, from the smallest stuff to more serious things. I was shocked at first being a witness to it myself !
I know really realize how much easier I have it. But it's been so many years and things haven't changed all that much, racism exists just in different ways more hidden.

I'm going to stop now these are just my thoughts and opinions! :)
 

xamaicano

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Apr 16, 2004
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So basically it was fair up until they started promoting blacks and women for no reason, huh?

my father went through about 10 years at his company, AT&T..where he worked his butt and was doing great things in the company and was heading up fast... then all of the sudden there was an edict handed down

propmote minorities...blacks and women especially...so if you worked at AT&T and were a black woman, you were a golden choice for promotion for many years there...but My father wasnt bitter...he just worked harder to be one of the fewe white men to get a promotion...and I am not bitter.... I think I am allowed to Note it now and then though .

to me everyone comes to me with an clean slate, even if there is an air of "just watch a little closer".....and if no flags come up...you are treated as the next person...bob
 

dv8

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few things

as racism-conscious as it may be london is still not as pc as america. after years of being friends with a jamaican girl i finally gathered the courage to ask her "do you wish you were white?" and she answeres "yes"... she told me she feels her life is more difficult because of her color and that she misses good job opportunities ets.
it looks almost ali-g-like "iz it becoz i iz black?" but some people really feel they are being mistreated because of their race.

after london bombing we even had jokes about arabs nervously clinging to their bags on the tube. sure, the more they clinged the more people looked at them, the more crowd looked, the more arabs cliged onto their luggage....

i know that "negra" here is used descriptively but dominicans are racist just like any other nation, i have noticed a common hatred for haitian "monkeys" and whiteness of high society.
and - now we, gringos are racial minority. how does it feel, eh?
 

dv8

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yes, it does suck. but it is as common as a cold. even in this paradise.
maybe here even more, racism does not raise its head much where everyone looks the same...
 

NALs

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It's a little lengthy, but....

As long as someone feels disadvantaged for a reason that is not based on his/her merits, the notion of racism will continue to exist.

Racism is not just a matter of a majority prejudging a minority, well at least not in the conventional sense.

Usually, when people think of majority/minority, we tend to think in terms of pure numbers. However, a minority is simply a group of disadvantaged peoples, regardless what their actual numbers in population may be.

For this reason, women are seen as a minority, despite women outnumbering men in most societies. They are minorities because they often don't have the same rights and/or don't receive the same treatment men receive in similar situations, whatever they may be.

For this reason I don't agree too much with the final question in DV8's post. While whites in the DR are a minority in number, they are in fact a majority in influence and power. The minority would be the disadvantaged masses who collectively have less rights than a handful of whites, whether they are upper class Dominicans or expatriates from elsewhere.

The only way for racism to fully disappear is to have a classless society and under a capitalistic system, that is highly unlikely to occur.

Sometimes, a little racism can actually be constructive and positive. This is the case in the many affirmative action programs imposed in various countries in the world, meant to give an extra advantage to disadvantaged minorities over a more advantageous majority.

Some of the most famous affirmative action programs includes the program giving American minorities and advantage in gaining access to education, employment, etc. Also, in the United Arab Emirates and in Malaysia, each respective government gives plenty of perks and advantages to their native people, who are often a small proportion of the total population of their countries given that their countries have many people who are either from or descended from other places.

In the case of Malaysia, the bumiputra (I believe that's the name of the program) intentionally gives native Malaysians an upstart and advantage in gaining economic and political participation over the rest of the population. In United Arab Emirates (where Emiratis are an extremely small proportion of the population with most of the people living in UAE being immigrants from Pakistan, Africa, and India) Emiratis are given property and grants by the government in order to keep the native Emirati population at a prominent socio-economic level vs. the rest of the population which is not native to UAE.

India has the largest affirmative action program on earth with the attempt to give equal rights to the "untouchables" who form the lowest caste, so low that many Indians believe that to be touched by the shadow of an "untouchable" requires a purification ceremony in order to avert bad luck. Earlier this year I remember seeing on BBC news demonstrations occuring in India by the majority rejecting new rights being given to the untouchables. Visually untouchables are indistinguishable from most Indians, although the Indian upper class tends to be light skin.

To conclude, racism will exist in all societies that are stratified. Stratification implies an inherent difference between people in a given society. This difference could either be ascribed (ie. born into) or can be attained through merit.

The only way to eliminate racism is by elimination stratification and since Capitalism is a system based on stratification and it's the best way to allocate scarce resources (compared to all the other economic theories that have been applied and have failed such as socialism), the persistence of racism will continue.

The only thing that can be done is patch the symptoms of racism via programs aimed at giving advantages to the disadvantageous, but even then it only works up to a certain point. The people who were part of the minority and received the benefit of such program often develop more things in common with the original majority and in fact, begin to act and think like the majority rather than the disadvantaged minority they once were a part of.

A good example would be the African-American community in the United States. Those who have benefited from the affirmative action programs and have moved up the socio-economic latter actually have more things in common with other upper class Americans than they do with the lower class members of their own race. In fact, because of this difference in socio-economic class, the upper class within the African-American community actually looks down to the lower class African-American community in various, among the many blaming the lower class members for staying in the lower class despite the opportunities available. There are many sociological studies affirming this and trying to understand the schism that has occured within the African-American community between those who moved up the latter and those who remained stuck in the lower class.

In the end, racism is closely link to classism. In fact, I'm convinced that racism is simply a racialized version of classism. The belief in being superior to another person due to education level, income, or heritance is rooted in the racialization of such belief when a particular race or ethnic group has been denegraded and kept at a submissive level in a society (ie. blacks who were decendants of slaves - the lowest class).

For this reason, many racist ideas came to be equating either skin color or physical attributes to the "inherent ability of a human to acheive greatness in life". What such ideas or racist theories failed to take into account was the historical realities which trasended via different types of people falling in different socio-economic class levels.

The deep belief in such and the attempt to keep such belief present lead to the racism many people are familiar with around the world, a racism which is nothing more than a racialized version of classism.

However, as the notion of racial superiority wanes and people begin to mingle and see people of other races and combination of races reaching high levels in their societies as professionals or prominent figures, the notion of racialized classism will wane and we will simply be left with pure classism.

It will no longer be a world where light skin people are believed to be better and smarter than non-light skin people, but rather into a world where some people simply take advantage of the opportunities available to them and others don't and that is what will make the difference between who reaches the status of majority and who remains as a minority, not by the virtue of their population but by the virtue of accrued influence and power an individual attains as he/she lives his/her life.

Is the DR a racist country? I think it's not.

Are there racist Dominicans? Yes there are.

Will this always be the case? Things are changing, slowly, but changing and that gives hope that it will not be the case forever.

Is the DR a classist country? Yes it is.

Are there classist Dominicans? Yes there are.

Will the DR always be a classist country? As long as the society functions on an economic system that is based on stratification, the DR will remain classist.

Is the DR less racist than other countries? I think it is less racist.

Why? The DR has a population that mingles and intermarries and mixes to a degree few other places on earth has witnessed this.

My 2 cents.

-NALs
 
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