Wave of Expat Murders

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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We've seen three specific ones come across these boards in the last few months. I personally know of another recent home invasion where the owners were threatened at gunpoint (not discussed here). Each of these murders seem to have been written off by blaming the victim.

What is happening? Is the North Coast becoming a magnet for crime?
 
Mar 21, 2002
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In AZB's immortal words, the scum of the DR are attracted to the North Coast. I went once to the North Coast and never returned. The truth is that drugs are ravishing the island. I was speaking to a Coronel from San Jose de Ocoa who told me that Ocoa is the last place where they have been able to draw the line in the sand. He wrote off the rest of the island as drug infested.
 

AnnaC

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Jan 2, 2002
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That is so sad. I remember when I joined this board that people were told not to even say the word "drug" on the street or were warned if they were into recreational drugs to please go visit another Island.

How the world changes in 7 years

So sad indeed. :(
 

Lambada

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Mar 4, 2004
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I would agree about the drug problem. But it isn't helped by offenders being protected by those in uniform who are also complicit. I hope the colonel from Ocoa can keep his patch uncontaminated.
 

Berzin

Banned
Nov 17, 2004
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What these criminals need to do is stop harrassing the expats and start robbing the prostitutes-they're the ones with the most disposable cash in their purses. And they walk around unprotected at all hours of the day and night.
 

CFA123

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May 29, 2004
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I'm now in the category of occasional visitor to DR, but I don't have the same secure feeling as when I lived in Santiago '99-'02.

That's not because I necessarily see anything different or been impacted directly, but hearing my friends (Dominican & expat) in the capital, Santiago, and north coast voice their experience with crime over the last couple of years has had an effect on me. Not that I ever acted frivolously as far as security was concerned, but it's now in the back of my mind almost all the time whether I'm on the street or in my apartment.

As for blaming it on the victim, I think somewhere in the back of our minds we all think "they must have brought it on themselves in some way". It scares us too much to think we could be the victim of a random act of violence. Unfortunately that's what the Dominican population has been living with now for a couple of years. The situation exists in almost every city, it just seems to get our attention when it's an expat. What's that say about our concern for Dominican lives?

As an aside, I don't think Matilda's situation and the recent murder in Juan Dolio qualify as north coast.
 
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Rocky

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Apr 4, 2002
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In the early days when I first moved here, before cellphones, and internet, with only the local jungle drums coco connections to spread the news, we heard of just as many murders as we do now.
We still have to do something about it, but most of it comes down to this.
The two principal reasons are showing too much wealth, and second, but certainly not least, getting into serious conflicts with the locals.
I know it can sometimes be unavoidable, and I've had my share of battles, and came close more than once to biting the big one, but I've been a bit lucky and a bit street wise.
One thing I have learned for sure, is that murders and violent crimes are not exclusively directed at Gringos.
Criminals go where the booty is best, with the least amount of risk, and often, newbie gringos are easy targets.
We need to impress all the newbies we are in contact with, how to go about keeping a lower profile, with regards to their wealth, and convince them that any major conflict they get into with local Dominicans, could be dangerous and/or fatal.
In the event they do get into a major conflict, we need to counsel them, as to how to resolve it.
What else can we do?
 
Mar 21, 2002
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I would agree about the drug problem. But it isn't helped by offenders being protected by those in uniform who are also complicit. I hope the colonel from Ocoa can keep his patch uncontaminated.

Believe me that there are many in the armed forces who are squeaky clean. I myself, commenting with the Coronel , was surprised some of the lower ranking officers didn't think of a coup as in the olden days.

He said its a new world. Such thoughts are anachronistic. If they even succeeded in such a plot the entire world community would cut them off in hours. Thank technology for that. The OEA in their new charter doesn't permit such things. The coup plotters would be condemned instantly unlike Cuba's revolutionaries who weren't. In today's world the only method is through the ballot box.

Look at Movimiento Candelier. In the old days Candelier would have already installed himself through force, the coronel's words and the DR's crime problems would be solved in weeks which I truly believe he would.Even if Candelier wins, his hands are also tied. He won't be able to solve the DR's crime problems like in the old days where his brand of street justice terrorized the thugs into submission. The predator was the prey. It's a legalistic society today worldwide.

The coronel's integrity is beyond reprobation. Besides his family is extremely wealthy in the states and they send him enough money monthly to avoid any temptations. I would suggest Ocoa to any foreigners who feel threatened. The armed forces in place are maintaining the place under lock. The general populace is still not money hungry. I know many foreigners who live there with no problems.

Rocky's words are important to hear. I spend months at a time in NYC, Miami and Europe. I don't see foreigners in their home countries eagerly running to move to Overtown, the South Bronx or any ghetto in Eastern Europe. Yet when they move to the DR they flock to the DR ghettos like flies to meat. WHY? Its the allure of simple living that attracts them. So what's different from the ghettos in their countries?
 

canadian bob

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Jan 16, 2002
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Tourists & "ex-pats" stand out like a sore thumb and are targets for crime. It is an unfortunate fact that tourists/strangers/ are only tolerated because of the money they may have. Because of the obviously lax attitude of the police, even with homicides, it is up to each individual to watch their back. We also watch out for others as much as possible with such things as "neighbourhood watch". Rocky's post really says it all..... Canadian Bob.
 
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Rocky, I have seen the locals on the North Coast. They have an eerie look to them. I wouldn't want to deal with any of them. Why can't you guys pick up and move somewhere else like Ocoa? The populace there is very amicable. Your restaurant would surely thrive there. So why are so many foreigners holding onto the place they live at?
 

shadInToronto

On Vacation....
Nov 16, 2003
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Tempest in a teacup???

Rocky, I have seen the locals on the North Coast. They have an eerie look to them. I wouldn't want to deal with any of them. Why can't you guys pick up and move somewhere else like Ocoa? The populace there is very amicable. Your restaurant would surely thrive there. So why are so many foreigners holding onto the place they live at?
I think so. The North Coast is not Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria, or any other crime ravaged place in the world. One needs to be cautious and not flaunt their wealth like a 'big fish in a little pond'. I spent last Dec. in the North Coast and I was never a victim of violence or approached to purchase drugs. I was discreet at all times and did not try to attract attention to myself.
 

Bear

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Aug 15, 2006
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Why not the North Coast

Rocky, I have seen the locals on the North Coast. They have an eerie look to them. I wouldn't want to deal with any of them. Why can't you guys pick up and move somewhere else like Ocoa? The populace there is very amicable. Your restaurant would surely thrive there. So why are so many foreigners holding onto the place they live at?

As a relatively new comer maybe I can shed a little light on "why the north
coast, and not somewhere else".
First of all I have no idea where Ocoa is but more importantly I looked over
the DR from Santo Domingo to La Romana to Punta Cana to Miches to Las
Terrenas and Samana to Nagua and all the way to Puerto Plata. We liked
the North Coast best in general and the area between Sosua and Cabrera
specifically. We were told that we had to live in a gated community for
security reasons. But this is not our life style. Sea Horse Ranch, El Choce
et al are simply not what we came to look for in the DR. Those kind of
residential areas are plentiful in the southern and south western USA.
So we settled in Sosua, bought a house in the hills overlooking the beautiful
coast line and are surrounded by a mixture of Dominicans, Europeans,
Canadians and some Americans. We love the area with all its institutional
problems (EDENorte.CORAAPPLATA,Verizon DSL etc.) The Dominican
neighbors are mainly the gardeners, maids and watchmen for absentee
home owners from Santiago. The expats are for the most part gainefully
empoyed in the Sosua area and us, a retired couple. We keep a friendly
relationship with those around us and otherwise a low profile. We do not
need a gardener, pool boy or maid so far. If and when this situation changes
we will evaluate very carefully our next steps. Until then we are quite
contend to live on the North Coast with its beauty and laid back life style.

Bear
 

Danny W

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Mar 1, 2003
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The North Coast has many advantages and I'd love to list them, but that is not what this thread is about.

I remember Times Square in the 80s, and there is some similarity in they way the tourists then and the gringos now in the DR are sometimes victimized. Both were obvious marks. But at some point it got so bad for business that the powers that be got smart and cleaned it up.

There is so much development going on in the Sosua/Cabarete area that I can't believe that the same improvement is not in store for that area as well. I know everyone disagrees, but money talks. Crime will always exist, but it will not escalate through the roof as far at the expat areas are concerned.

I do believe that gated communities are necessary for some people. If you don't know the subtleties of a culture, or come from a life where you didn't need "street smarts", or are just an elderly gringo, a gated community might be the place for you. There is nothing wrong with that. The weather is just as good, and you certainly have ample opportunity to interact with the Dominican people. You're just alot safer. - D
 

AZB

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Jan 2, 2002
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Lets face it, life here is not so easy anymore like we had it earlier. The food prices are sky high, the gasoline and electriccosts more than USA. prices of rent, phones and even the doctor's fees have gone up. The rich and poor are both hurting from the crisis. The poor are becoming poorer and more desperate by the day. People are now willing to take actions where in the past they wouldn't have dared to. I am talking about robbing other people who seem an easy target.
Now look at the noth coast as an example. Expats are coming with fresh money to invest, they move right into gated community and set up nice furnished houses. Take a look at las canas apartment complex. Nice clean looking apartments with a huge pool down below the belconies. Every apartment is nicely furnished, cleaned by a maid and luxury everywhere you look. Now look at what types of women go there? Almost every single expat male has a cuero, hooker like girlfriend. Look at the girls who are around the pool and try counting their tattooes on their bodies? Look at the type of guys who acompany the expat women? Look at the dominican women the men are married to? Look at the number of hookers who frequent that apartment complex?
You think all of these women are from well-to-do families? No sir, they are dirt poor women who have kids from other barrio men and broke. These girls only go to sosua to make quick cash. They are almost all dirt poor girls. The girls who work at bars in sosua, the same girls you men dream about going out with, where do you think they are coming from? Most are part time hookers but all are dirt poor.
So they come to your home, see the luxury you live. They become impressed beyond belief. Then the same girls talk about their finding with their friends and family. Some jobless cousin or her chulo hears about some rich old expat who lives alone in his house with lots of cash and a laptop computer.
You are with me so far?
This is how all this starts.
The maids also talk about the wealth of her boss to her family and friends from ghettos. Soon the news reach the ears of some unorthodox fellow and a robbery comes into mind. Sometimes the victim gets killed.

Now folks, anyone who lives anywhere in DR can get robed and killed at anytime but if you take precautions, you can live trouble free for the rest of your life.
I don't bring barrio chicas or jobless guys to my house. I used to do that before but I soon learned my lesson when my camera went missing. Now I am careful, most of my dominican friends are as good as I am financially or better off. They all travel to USA etc and live in nicer houses.
In effect, I have reduced my chances of becoming a victim in DR.
AZB
 

Lambada

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Mar 4, 2004
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Believe me that there are many in the armed forces who are squeaky clean. I myself, commenting with the Coronel , was surprised some of the lower ranking officers didn't think of a coup as in the olden days.............................

Yet when they move to the DR they flock to the DR ghettos like flies to meat. WHY? Its the allure of simple living that attracts them. So what's different from the ghettos in their countries?

Yes I do believe you, we know 'squeaky clean' personnel. But that sort of knowledge does take years to acquire. One of the problems for new expats is knowing who to trust and building up the right contacts in the right places. Sometimes they get it wrong and voila they become a mark.........

I have a slightly different perception on the 'ghettos'. Years ago there was a much smaller number of expats living in the Sosua/Cabarete area. Then development took off and hordes moved in. Social planning wise, that doesn't feel right..........it makes the area 'gringoland' and although many delightful people live there, they will not be perceived as such by those who want to steal. With so many foreigners in one place it is easy to make them the 'anonymous rich' to justify them as targets. At about the same time the drug problem took off, with dealers being paid by substance not cash, so the number of addicts escalated. And the half-crazed crackhead isn't into justifying anything - all he can think of is the next fix.

I know it'll never happen, but somehow I feel if quotas were introduced (no more than so many foreigners in one area) then the issue would be more easily manageable.

I'm glad the colonel has it all under control in Ocoa, but if you promote it too much, O&C, it could become another Sosua...............;)
 
Mar 21, 2002
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I have no idea where Ocoa is but more importantly I looked over
the DR from Santo Domingo to La Romana to Punta Cana to Miches to Las
Terrenas and Samana to Nagua and all the way to Puerto Plata. We liked
the North Coast best in general and the area between Sosua and Cabrera
specifically. So we settled in Sosua, bought a house in the hills overlooking the beautiful
coast line and are surrounded by a mixture of Dominicans, Europeans,
Canadians and some Americans.
Bear

Ocoa is a mountain town in the Southern Cordillera Central area.

Hey Yogi Bear, do you feel at all threatened by the locals in Sosua? Do their shady looks frighten you or it isn't a concern?

Hey AZB, we always complain about the low class DR whores but have you seen some of these ex-pats? They are well matched with some of these barrio scum.
 

Bear

New member
Aug 15, 2006
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Saver in Gated Community

Danny W,
Maybe not. 3 break ins occured within one week just a few days ago
inside one of the gated residencies in Pearla Marina.
True they picked houses where the owners were not there.
Crime will happen any place.
Bear
 

Danny W

Bronze
Mar 1, 2003
999
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Yes I do believe you, we know 'squeaky clean' personnel. But that sort of knowledge does take years to acquire. One of the problems for new expats is knowing who to trust and building up the right contacts in the right places. Sometimes they get it wrong and voila they become a mark.........

I have a slightly different perception on the 'ghettos'. Years ago there was a much smaller number of expats living in the Sosua/Cabarete area. Then development took off and hordes moved in. Social planning wise, that doesn't feel right..........it makes the area 'gringoland' and although many delightful people live there, they will not be perceived as such by those who want to steal. With so many foreigners in one place it is easy to make them the 'anonymous rich' to justify them as targets. At about the same time the drug problem took off, with dealers being paid by substance not cash, so the number of addicts escalated. And the half-crazed crackhead isn't into justifying anything - all he can think of is the next fix.

I know it'll never happen, but somehow I feel if quotas were introduced (no more than so many foreigners in one area) then the issue would be more easily manageable.

I'm glad the colonel has it all under control in Ocoa, but if you promote it too much, O&C, it could become another Sosua...............;)

Quota for foreigers??? Tourism, and in the near future retirement, are the golden egg of the north coast - and most of the country. This problem will work itself out someday. There is a great mixing of races and cultures going on in the Sosua area. Just visit the Garden Kids school in Sosua one morning when the parents are dorpping their kids off - all nationalities, mixes and pleny of 100% Dominicans. This is the future of the area - not going back to the past. - D
 

Berzin

Banned
Nov 17, 2004
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Correct me if I'm wrong, AZB...

but is'nt it true that there is a certain percentage of these exats who were criminals in their own countries and are looking for a place in the sun to run and hide?
And even if they were'nt, is'nt part of the problem the easy availability of hookers that flock to Sosua from all parts DR? What sort of guys do you think are going to come chasing after them when they hear about all the easy money they are making? The chulos and the deliquentes cannot be far behind once the girls leave the barrios for Sosua...
Is'nt part of the problem the high concentration of whores and whoremongers in one small area?

Please do not take this as a judgement-I am just wondering if these things could be part of the problem. Maybe someone like Rocky can correct me if I'm wrong, but could this be the case?