The double standard continues...

Status
Not open for further replies.

RHM

Doctor of Diplomacy
Sep 23, 2002
1,660
30
0
www.thecandidacy.com
I find it interesting how inconsistent many of the people in the DR (and this board) are when it comes to cries of imperialism, exploitation, violations of sovereignty etc. It started with DR-CAFTA and claims that the evil gringos, especially agricultural gringos, will plunge the entire island into worse poverty and hyper-unemployment. Some board members who actually work in the agricultural business were kind enough to point out that the real agricultural threats of DR-CAFTA could come from Central America. Interestingly, there has been silence about similar agreements with Taiwan and the European Union.

Then we had the temporary presence of U.S. military troops on the island this past summer. Claims of invasion, violation of sovereignty and worse were everywhere. This is from today's news:

Operation: Dumas I
Dominican and French troops stormed the beaches of Bani yesterday, launched land to water missiles and evacuated injured citizens. No, it wasn't war or a natural disaster; instead it was practice in case there ever is the need for such action. Both military squads practiced using live ammunition with 12.7mm rounds and 7.62mm precision sniper rifles, as reported in Diario Libre. The Dominican and French troops were practicing land and water tactics as well as rescue missions in case of a natural disaster. The French troops leave the country on 23 November.

Where are the cries of sovereignty? Invasion? Foreign troops have no place in the DR! I would ask...where are the clinics? Bridges? Roads? etc. That's what we got from the Americans and NOT ONE shot was fired. Above it states that the exercise was for potential natural disaster missions. Then why the life fire exercise? Why fire missiles? Man, where are the conspiracy theorists (you all know who you are)? Didn't the French once colonize parts of the island?

This is not a case of me being an "oversensitive American". This doesn't bother me, it just makes me scratch my head and laugh.

Anybody want to enlighten me?

Scandall
 

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
18,948
514
113
Funny you should bring this up. I did: In my History class!! I asked them if they has even heard about the exercises and none of them had! Very slight coverage before DL put it onthe front pages!!

But you wonder what they could have learned from the French? Brit's SAS, okay, the Russian Special Forces, Yeah! The German Elite Forces, sure....he!!, even the Pope's Swiss Guards!!, but the French? Gimme a break......Wasn't their last victory like 200 years ago???? I wonder who gave them the ammo???
 

RHM

Doctor of Diplomacy
Sep 23, 2002
1,660
30
0
www.thecandidacy.com
Interesting, Hillbilly. I brought it up with my history students too. :)

By the way, Hillbilly was the agricultural expert who pointed out the Central American agricultural aspects of DR-CAFTA in the thread I referred to earlier.

Cheers,

Scandall
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
Just because they're not posting about it on DR1, it doesn't mean that people aren't commenting on it.

The ridiculous French "invasion" will get some people's knickers in a knot - the ones who think it's all part of the international complot to reunite the island.

There is some serious lobbying going on around the agreement with the EU, based on concerns that most people in the DR and other countries in the region will not benefit. It's been reported on the DR1 news, and in the local media.

The Taiwan agreement? As with the EU negotiations, I don't think people have enough information to discuss this in detail. Also, it is hardly reported in the media.

Although I don't share the excesses of the conspiracy theorists re the US presence in the SW, you have to appreciate that memories of the mid-1960s US invasion, which was a traumatic time for many Dominicans, are still fresh in some older people's minds. That goes some way to explain why it is still such a sore point for some.
 

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
2,239
168
63
Scandall, I think you just don't get the point...

The opposition to the DR-CAFTA has nothing to do with disliking gringos... I can see that you haven't really read all the posts denouncing the DR-CAFTA...

You simply can't compare a little military exercise with the total destruction of the dominican agriculture...

Then again, you can always make jokes about it if you feel like, but I am not sure it is of such a good taste to laugh about such a tragedy to come...
 

RHM

Doctor of Diplomacy
Sep 23, 2002
1,660
30
0
www.thecandidacy.com
Just because they're not posting about it on DR1, it doesn't mean that people aren't commenting on it.

The ridiculous French "invasion" will get some people's knickers in a knot - the ones who think it's all part of the international complot to reunite the island.

There is some serious lobbying going on around the agreement with the EU, based on concerns that most people in the DR and other countries in the region will not benefit. It's been reported on the DR1 news, and in the local media.

The Taiwan agreement? As with the EU negotiations, I don't think people have enough information to discuss this in detail. Also, it is hardly reported in the media.

Although I don't share the excesses of the conspiracy theorists re the US presence in the SW, you have to appreciate that memories of the mid-1960s US invasion, which was a traumatic time for many Dominicans, are still fresh in some older people's minds. That goes some way to explain why it is still such a sore point for some.

Blah, blah, blah, Chiri! ;)

Any noise about these things pales in comparison. And I am fully aware that DR1 is not the only social barometer...although Robert wants to think it is.

The invasion of the mid-1960s? Sure. But in 2006 not a shot was fired and we can go see the humanitarian works that took place. These other forces were conducting a life fire exercise (which anybody who has been in the military knows is not typical) with small arms fire and missiles. Much different from clinics and bridges, si?

I hear your points but still think the hippocracy is obvious.

Face it...it's just a hell of a lot more fun to hate the gringos up north!

Scandall
 

RHM

Doctor of Diplomacy
Sep 23, 2002
1,660
30
0
www.thecandidacy.com
Scandall, I think you just don't get the point...

The opposition to the DR-CAFTA has nothing to do with disliking gringos... I can see that you haven't really read all the posts denouncing the DR-CAFTA...

You simply can't compare a little military exercise with the total destruction of the dominican agriculture...

Then again, you can always make jokes about it if you feel like, but I am not sure it is of such a good taste to laugh about such a tragedy to come...


Find me a single joke I have made about agricultural failure.

Perhaps, YOU just don't get it.

My point in the original post was laid out pretty clearly. It is about hippocracy and selective criticism. I never meant to imply that farmers and soldiers were related.

PS: Obviously YOU did not read all the posts denouncing DR-CATFA...if you did you would have seen mine...denouncing DR-CAFTA. Get off your horse.

Scandall
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
Squat, I agree - much of the debate on DR1 around DR-CAFTA has been focused on the justifiable fear that the DR, or most of its population, will not benefit.

Scandall - I've posted before that I've seen DR-CAFTA advocates struggle to list more than one or two benefits to the DR, and when they do, it's based on the assumption that those who benefit have some degree of purchasing power. (It might also end up being a double-edged sword for the US - what about all the illegal immigration that will result when all those Dominican farmers lose their livelihoods?)

The EU and Taiwan negotiations are too boring and complex for the media to sensationalise, let alone get their heads round, unlike the presence of US troops - whatever the rights and wrongs. The debate on DR1 just reflected the amount of exposure it got in the DR media.

It's hypocrisy, by the way. ;) I corrected the teacher! :) blah blah blah my arse!
 

RHM

Doctor of Diplomacy
Sep 23, 2002
1,660
30
0
www.thecandidacy.com
Squat, I agree - much of the debate on DR1 around DR-CAFTA has been focused on the justifiable fear that the DR, or most of its population, will not benefit.

Scandall - I've posted before that I've seen DR-CAFTA advocates struggle to list more than one or two benefits to the DR, and when they do, it's based on the assumption that those who benefit have some degree of purchasing power. (It might also end up being a double-edged sword for the US - what about all the illegal immigration that will result when all those Dominican farmers lose their livelihoods?)

The EU and Taiwan negotiations are too boring and complex for the media to sensationalise, let alone get their heads round, unlike the presence of US troops - whatever the rights and wrongs. The debate on DR1 just reflected the amount of exposure it got in the DR media.

It's hypocrisy, by the way. ;) I corrected the teacher! :) blah blah blah my arse!

Man, you and squat must have missed all MY posts criticising DR-CAFTA!

I agree! I agree! God damn...

BTW: nice try...the "hippocracy" is my tribute to our beloved ex-president.
;) ;) ;) ....even though he spells it with one "p".....

Scandall
 
Last edited:

Lambada

Gold
Mar 4, 2004
9,478
410
0
80
www.ginniebedggood.com
Who paid?

My only question about Operation Dumas (cleverly chosen name, what? ;) ) is who paid for it? El Nacional says in a matter of 7 minutes a million pesos went poof! up in smoke.
El Nacional, la voz de todos

Practising for natural disaster evacuation I can understand. Land to sea missiles? Who is going to invade from a seaborn route (apart from those who already are..................)

Chiri, you never told me you were a doctor.............
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,370
3,150
113
Well, since no one else is saying the obvious, I think I will have to:

To put it in simple words (how ironic, no? :eek: ) :

To be anti-American is in style; it's the "in" thing to do.

One interesting thing to note, however, is that NO ONE (except maybe Bin Laden and his crew) hates Americans!!!! People only hate U.S. foreign policy.

In the words of Hillbilly:

That's all folks!

-NALs
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
My only question about Operation Dumas (cleverly chosen name, what? ;) )
I thought so too. I was just reading an article about old Alexandre and his Dominican as well as Haitian connections. All proves it's a sinister plot to reunite the island.:speechles

Chiri, you never told me you were a doctor.............

What are you trying to............:smoke:
 
May 12, 2005
8,564
271
83
Scandall, great topic. I thought the same thing after reading that news item about the French troops. The silence speaks volumes.

"I'd rather have a German army in front of me, than a French army behind me." George S. Patton, U.S. Army general
 
Mar 21, 2002
856
2
0
You simply can't compare a little military exercise with the total destruction of the dominican agriculture

The sky is fallin, the sky is fallin. I used to be a dominican conspiracist theorist alongside Mondongo. But since then the DR economy continues to grow, to prosper. Unemployment is down, tourism is up, reserves are up, bonds are being paid, construction is up, the "moneda" is stable, infrastructure grows steadily, peaceful change of candidates, no coups, no crap, so on and so forth.

The dominican agriculture will not be destroyed. It will just adapt to new circumstances and re-invent itself as have all industries since Trujillo's demise.
 

JOKL

New member
Oct 30, 2006
47
0
0
I find it interesting how inconsistent many of the people in the DR (and this board) are when it comes to cries of imperialism, exploitation, violations of sovereignty etc. It started with DR-CAFTA and claims that the evil gringos, especially agricultural gringos, will plunge the entire island into worse poverty and hyper-unemployment. Some board members who actually work in the agricultural business were kind enough to point out that the real agricultural threats of DR-CAFTA could come from Central America. Interestingly, there has been silence about similar agreements with Taiwan and the European Union.

Then we had the temporary presence of U.S. military troops on the island this past summer. Claims of invasion, violation of sovereignty and worse were everywhere. This is from today's news:

Operation: Dumas I
Dominican and French troops stormed the beaches of Bani yesterday, launched land to water missiles and evacuated injured citizens. No, it wasn't war or a natural disaster; instead it was practice in case there ever is the need for such action. Both military squads practiced using live ammunition with 12.7mm rounds and 7.62mm precision sniper rifles, as reported in Diario Libre. The Dominican and French troops were practicing land and water tactics as well as rescue missions in case of a natural disaster. The French troops leave the country on 23 November.

Where are the cries of sovereignty? Invasion? Foreign troops have no place in the DR! I would ask...where are the clinics? Bridges? Roads? etc. That's what we got from the Americans and NOT ONE shot was fired. Above it states that the exercise was for potential natural disaster missions. Then why the life fire exercise? Why fire missiles? Man, where are the conspiracy theorists (you all know who you are)? Didn't the French once colonize parts of the island?

This is not a case of me being an "oversensitive American". This doesn't bother me, it just makes me scratch my head and laugh.

Anybody want to enlighten me?

Scandall

With the DR-CAFTA issue is tha DR have 85% of their import and export bussines with US, 85 dollars of every 100 , that is with custom taxes.the remaining 15 % is for EU, Japan, Latin america , Taiwan etc. I think DR-CAFTA will be good for both countries . For the troops! nahh don not worry, check who took care on putting an end to the Balkan war in european soil,!. French troops missed the oportunity of "Real Training" when they give us the back with Irak.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.