Journalist wants to learn about race relations in the DR

I read your previous article a while back -- perhaps because you posted here previously or it was mentioned on Michele Wucker's forum on Yahoo. I am sorry to say that while the article made a few good points, it was rife with errors, largely due to misinformation or incautious phrasing. Here is an example:

"According to the Christian Science Monitor, between 700,000 and one million Haitians are living illegally in the Dominican Republic. Despite the Republic's 17 percent unemployment rate, most come looking for low-paid, unskilled labor work, mainly in the sugar plantations which line the Haitian-Dominican border."

The figure quoted is often bandied about and it is essentially an imaginary estimate, a million being very dubious. Besides, not all those Haitians are illegal here. There are in fact many legal Haitians in residence (though porportionally their number is not great). secondly the pattern of Haitian migrant labor has changed greatly in the past five years, because the sugar industry (whose plantations do NOT "line the Haitian-Dominican border") is in decline. Besides Colon, Barahona and Porvenir, only the La Romana mill is functioning, and only that latter mill is producing any significant quantities (they provide most of the American sugar quota). So in fact the laborers are not "mainly" working on the plantations.

If you want to discuss these matters seriously, by all means get in touch; but there has been a lot of shoddy reporting on these issues, and that does no one any good. I have been reporting and documenting this material now for six years.

hello hello hello

After reading the first paragraph of your OP I will say the following.

I would suggest some more research concerning Haiti and its constitution. I direct you to Article 11, Article 13 and Article 15. Please read those and place yourself in a Haitians shoes as you cross over to the Dominican side in search of bettering you and your family?s life. At this point please read the First Article .

I would then suggest that you read the Dominican constitution at Article 11 in its entirety. At this point please read Article 3.

If there are no questions as to the definition of the words (sovereignty), (jus sanguinis) and (jus soli) then this should help clear up any misconceptions as presented in your OP with the use of the phrase;
?bringing attention to the plight of Haitian-descended Dominicans in the DR, many of whom are denied birth certificates and citizenship rights and often face deportation to Haiti -despite having been born in or lived in the DR for decades?

At this time I wish to point out that DR1 does not allow race or religion to be discussed on this board. Because of those rules and as to where this thread is sure to go then I will direct anyone reading your OP that should wish to give their opinion to you do so by PM or E-mail.

I am moving this thread to the debates section with a three day re-direct and rather then close it I will allow it to stay open but will also forewarn those that wish to post to this thread to do so with caution as we know what the rules are.

Lastly I will direct you to this link as it may help you.

Rick

Jzakattack said:

Hello --

I am a freelance writer, currently doing a piece on anti-Haitian racism in the DR. I have written before on race relation in the DR (have a look -- Anti-Haitian Bias Rooted in Dominican History - Worldpress.org) and I'm looking to follow up on a previous article. Basically, a woman named Sonia Pierre, leader of el Movimiento de Mujeres Dominico-Haitiana (MUDHA), has just been awarded the RFK Memorial Human Rights Award for her work in bringing attention to the plight of Haitian-descended Dominicans in the DR, many of whom are denied birth certificates and citizenship rights and often face deportation to Haiti -despite having been born in or lived in the DR for decades.

Without getting too heated, as I know this is a controversial topic , I would like to hear your opinions - basically, is this a topic which gets much publicity in the DR? In your view, is this a problem at all? The Dominican government has accused outside NGO's and governments - including the U.S. - of a "conspiracy" to discredit the DR. Do you agree?

Any assistance you can give me with this project would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
JZ

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jzakattack. Haiti doesn't have jus soli. DR shouldn't either, simply because two countries sharing an island is not suitable. Take a look a Cyprus or East Timor. The only reason DR has Jus Soli is because Trujillo wanted to whiten the country back then, but it is obsolete now. DR should get rid of Jus Soli,and that's it.

A book on this subject, Needed but Unwanted - by Bridget Wooding and Richard Moseley Williams, published a couple of years ago, is available from Progressio - home (either to order or as a PDF) and there is information on jrs.net, as well as on MUDHA's own site - El movimiento de Mujeres Dominico-Haitiana (MUDHA).

As I said, contact me and we can discuss these matters, but this board is not a suitable place. I am a documentary photographer by the way; I leave the sociological analysis to others, but I do write on the topic from a cultural vantage.

Jzakattack said:

Hello --

I am a freelance writer, currently doing a piece on anti-Haitian racism in the DR. I have written before on race relation in the DR (have a look -- Anti-Haitian Bias Rooted in Dominican History - Worldpress.org) and I'm looking to follow up on a previous article. Basically, a woman named Sonia Pierre, leader of el Movimiento de Mujeres Dominico-Haitiana (MUDHA), has just been awarded the RFK Memorial Human Rights Award for her work in bringing attention to the plight of Haitian-descended Dominicans in the DR, many of whom are denied birth certificates and citizenship rights and often face deportation to Haiti -despite having been born in or lived in the DR for decades.

Without getting too heated, as I know this is a controversial topic , I would like to hear your opinions - basically, is this a topic which gets much publicity in the DR? In your view, is this a problem at all? The Dominican government has accused outside NGO's and governments - including the U.S. - of a "conspiracy" to discredit the DR. Do you agree?

Any assistance you can give me with this project would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
JZ

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If you are not Dominican you may do not understand this. All foreigner get it wrong with this matter.Is Like the US and all their studies of latin-america can't figure out why those countries are getting left wing governments.

I noticed this article in the paper and thought I?d point it out to you. As it is about Haitians here in the DR and as the ?comments to the editor? seem to be from Dominicans it should give a reference as to how some Dominicans feel about this situation.

Many arguments concerning this subject do in fact seem to revolve around the words ("in transit") as you pointed out.

It seems that the Dominican government in their application of ?sovereign? rights feel that if you should fail to apply for residency, visa or some sort of permit to be in this country permanently then you must in fact be a person ?in transit?. As a person ?in transit? you are in fact able to be ejected from this country as that is in fact their sovereign right.

The blame always seems to be placed on the Dominicans for their supposed lack of failing to bend the rules or they are expected to change their official documents to cater to the whims of others.

Just like in the US, if a person should decide to become a citizen of a foreign country they must in fact apply for same. If they wish to be a resident of a foreign country they must apply for same. If they wish to work in a foreign country legally they must apply for same. The vast majority of the Haitians living here in the DR do not apply for the right to live or work here and are therefore "in transit".

The problem as I see it is that as the Haitian constitution applies jus soli regardless as to which parent is Haitian and does not allow dual citizenship the Haitian is placed into a catch 22 situation. I think, but don?t know, that the usual Haitian that comes to this country, regardless as to legally or illegally, does so without wishing to give up their rights as Haitian citizens nor their Haitian citizenship. The only Haitians that are offered this option per their constitution are those that come to the DR in a legal status and are therefore characterized as ?in transit? both by the DR government and the Haitian government. Those Haitians that come to the DR illegally and do not apply for any status are considered ?in transit? by the DR government and are considered non-citizens by the Haitian government.

Rick

jzakattack,

I would recommend you read this recent article. It has a good explanation of race relations, anti-haitianismo and the DR constitution.

As a Dominican, I'll tell you one thing... the biggest victims of anti-haitianismo are the Dominican people.

-bj

You are so right at so many levels.

bilijou said:

jzakattack,

As a Dominican, I'll tell you one thing... the biggest victims of anti-haitianismo are the Dominican people.

-bj

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bilijou said:

jzakattack,

I would recommend you read this recent article. It has a good explanation of race relations, anti-haitianismo and the DR constitution.

As a Dominican, I'll tell you one thing... the biggest victims of anti-haitianismo are the Dominican people.

-bj

Click to expand...

Dude, why the hell DR still has Jus Soli?? No citizenship by birth to the son of Haitians, Swiss, Chinos, etc. Period.

Jus Soli means that the country will get flooded by the neighbors(Haiti), and that just will defeat the purpose of the Dominican State separate from Haiti in 1844. The genius of Ernesto Sagas never thought of that. I guess it is Ok with him for DR to become a " Haiti part deux" within the next 40 years.

useless deputies of congress, get rid of Jus Soli now ! It is obsolete.

Jzakattack,

Just came across this for your reading pleasure;

"Illegal People":

Rick

Please leave the thread open

While I know racism is not allowed this thread up to now being kept to the point about information and sources. I have not seen in degrade. The three day limit should be extended as long as everything stays civil. I really do not have much to offer this thread but I am learning much from it.
John

The three day re-direct that I posted in my first post and that which you are referring to had to do with where the OP first placed his thread. As he placed it in the "Dominicans Abroad" forum I thought it would receive better exposure here and therefore moved it from that location to the "Debate" forum. In the "Dominicans Abroad" forum I allowed it to remain for three days so those that use that forum more so then the other forums would still continue to see the thread for three days at which time it would automatically be erased from that forum.

It is because of the subject matter and the possibility of the direction it can go that I have been offering links for the OP to refer to in his quest for knowledge on the subject matter.

I think it is very apparent that only a Dominican can offer the type of information that the OP requested as should be apparent by the posts from our Dominican board members. I would assume that they are conferring with the OP by PM to better educate him in those areas concerning the forbidden fruit of this board.

Rick

All I will say is....

jsizemore said:

While I know racism is not allowed this thread up to now being kept to the point about information and sources. I have not seen in degrade. The three day limit should be extended as long as everything stays civil. I really do not have much to offer this thread but I am learning much from it.
John

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to let us know when your new article is published and on what source.

Also, if you will be commenting on anti-haitianism (which I'm sure you will), please make sure you also make a reference to the existence of anti-dominicanism. This is particularly true among the political class of both nations, one exacerbating anti-haitianism while the other does the vice-versa.

One thing is certain, ever since Reve Preval has been in charge (or at least attempted to take charge in Haiti), relations between the two countries have meliorated considerably.

Preval even accepted the responsibility the Haitian government has on giving proper documentation to its people, particularly to those who have emigrated into Dominican territory. Such recognition from their part has lead to an increase in Haitian government efforts to grant Haitian citizenship to all sons and daughters of Haitian citizens who, due to their illegal status which makes them "in transit", their offsprings are not elegible for Dominican citizenship.

That was a positive move from the Haitian government towards helping make Dominico-Haitian relations much more smooth than they had been.

In theory, there should be no stateless children on Hispaniola, given that both government have constitutions that clearly states who is given what citizenship based on each particular circumstances.

While much of the debate regarding stateless children of Haitian citizens in the DR revolves around the definition of "in transit", the fact of the matter remains that those children were stateless because the Haitian government under Aristide refused to recognize the very same people the constitution of that country claims were perfectly elegible to receive Haitian citizenship.

For them to be recognized by the constitutional rights that the Haitian government guarantees all sons and daughters of Haitian parents, regardless where they are born, is the first step in them being able to regularize their illegal status on Dominican soil towards a status that is more in accordance with Dominican laws and regulations regarding migration and such.

Rene Preval has not only been the best thing to have happened to Haiti since the political turmoil erupted concerning the ousting of Aristide from power, but he has also been the best thing to have happened concerning the Dominico-Haitian relations.

Do a little research on anti-dominicanism, mention it along with whatever mentions of anti-haitianism on the article you plan to write, at least in the name of fairness to both sides of the border.

Often times, foreign writers tend to focus on only one side of what is essentially a coin with two sides.

-NALs

One more thing....

I think I should mention that there is a little misunderstanding concerning the estimated amount of Haitians who live on Dominican territory.

The figure that is the most accepted is the claim that the DR is home to around 1 million Haitians.

Some of the highest estimates almost reach the 2 million mark, while some of the lowest puts it at under 500,000.

Those are arbitrary estimates that either have or will encounter as you further your research concerning Haitian citizens on Dominican soil.

Despite all of that, the most recent government estimate (as of 2005) puts the figures in the following categories:

Haitian immigrants: approx. 500,000
Haitians born on Dominican soil: approx. 500,000

It's clear what the first category means, but the second category is a little confusing given that such category could mean Haitians who are not elegible for Dominican citizenship or Dominicans of Haitian decent or both.

What those figures does makes clear is how the assumption that there are 1 million Haitians on Dominican soil comes to be.

For more information on this click on the following sources:

Direccion General de Migracion

Informe Nacional de Desarollo

-NALs