Culture/Manners/Language??

When I first moved here it bothered me when please was not used. For example, in a store one would say - Give me........not please may I have...

It is cultural and very normal. Nothing wrong with us saying please but it isn't that normal.

Depends, the other day I heard someone use the polite form for requesting something, "de me . . ." You will find that please may not be used so much, but deference will be paid to elders and strangers, "usted" used as a sign of respect. in many situations though, particularly in public with lots of strangers around, it is usually each man for himself. The concept of forming a line and politely waiting one's turn is still to catch on here! and when you are at a colmado or a bar or anywhere expecting service, you have to demand it rather than patiently wait to be served. I still cannot quite get used to that despite many years here.

It might be an idiosyncracy(?)...but I have not noticed it.
I do think I use "Gracias" or "Mil gracias"
"No hay de que" (Thanks)
Por favor, is normal.....I think..

HB

Don't think there's any group more corteous and polite than Canadians and it is not easy to get used to not hearing 'please' and 'thank you'.
Especially is the 'excusa mi' or 'disculpa mi' - hearing that on a guagua is a rare thing.

The colmado thing is funny but after they get to know you and when you do make eye contact with a smile it's all good-kinda fun watching a five year old come up, interupt you, and then acutally get what they want before you do-oh, and they run off without so much as a glance or thanks.

not off topic

a polish friend of mine who's lived in england for 8 years was doing some shopping while staying in poland. at the till, she said "thank you" to the girl serving her and she heard "what do you thank me for?!" shouted at her in a very rude fashion.
i say in poland you will not hear many "thank you" and "please", cultural thing.
so it does not bother me when i do not hear it here.
but years in london have taken their toll, i say "gracias" all the time. :classic:

i agree. i always say permiso, lo siento, perdoname and they say "for what" like i farted or something.....

question is.....

The frist thing you have to ask yourself is:

Are you saying it to look good to the clerk, person in the way, etc.

or

do you say it because it makes you feel good and because of the way you were brought up you would be uncomfortable if you didn't say it!

i am one of those weirdos.....always say please, thank you, open car doors, courteouos etc. but I do it because that is the way I was brought up and it makes me feel good.

Something else you should keep in mind, the store clerk you are nasty to today, could be your customer tomorrow!

2LeftFeet,

That which you are discussing falls under the title of ?etiquette?. As etiquette has been determined to be the rules of acceptable behavior then to decide to use same would require you to have a working knowledge of what is acceptable behavior.

If we are to agree that one definition of culture is the shared beliefs and practices of a group of people that identify the particular place, class, or time to which they belong and if we should agree that culture is a learned thing then it could be said that culture plays a major part in the use of etiquette.

In the time that I have lived here I have traveled rather extensively on the southern coast and the eastern area of the country. As a general rule the words please, thank you and excuse me are not in the average Dominican vocabulary. Nor are other forms of etiquette such as waiting your turn, covering your mouth to sneeze or cough, using a Kleenex or handkerchief to blow your nose, admitting fault, not throwing litter and a host of others.

It has taken me a long time to teach my wife and son to use proper etiquette but through the years I?ve also learned that they only use those ?magic? words when talking to me. When either of them interacts with other Dominicans those ?magic? words are erased from their vocabularies. This also holds true with the Spanish language. It has also been difficult to teach my son that the numbers do, tre, and se don?t exist and with his teachers pronouncing them incorrectly I feel like it?s a never ending battle.

In growing up I was taught etiquette and it was drilled into me to the point that to this day I always use it in my dealings with other people. I don?t do this because it is proper or with any thought. I use it because it is a habit which is what repetition does to you. My 22 years in the military was also a continuous teacher of etiquette.

What I?m trying to say is that the Dominicans have not been taught etiquette and therefore can?t differentiate between what is proper and what is improper behavior as it pertains to the more advanced areas of the world. So what is a person to do? You can either continue to use proper behavior, etiquette, and hope to teach by example or you can disregard it and be like the rest of the natives. Either way you will have to accept the Dominicans for the way they are as it isn?t their fault that they haven?t been taught something that you are knowledgeable in. Darn, here we are right back at that (EDUCATION) topic again.

Ellos aprendan lo que tu les ense?es. (Spelling?)

Rick

OTOH Dominicans (together with other Latin Americans) are more polite when it comes to greetings and introductions. You say 'saludos' or 'buenas', or 'buen d?a' or 'buenas tardes/noches' to complete strangers, upon entering a lift, a bus, a carro p?blico, a shop - even when passing strangers in the street, in certain circumstances. Do that in any big city in Europe and North America and people think you're on day release from a mental facility.

Then there's the whole 'buen provecho'/'a buen tiempo' rituals - non-existent in English-speaking cultures.

When you arrive at a social gathering, even if there are twenty people present, you are expected to greet every single one individually, even if you don't know them, and introduce yourself - fulana, fulano, encantada, igualmente, un placer... In English-speaking countries at least it's often acceptable enough to wave and greet the group vaguely, ignore the people you've never met until introduced, and home in on the ones you do know.

There may be exceptions, I can't speak for the entire English-speaking world, but this is generally speaking.

So, they don't say please, thank you and sorry as much as Brits and other anglos. We think they're rude, but they also think we're rude when we walk into a restaurant and don't say buen provecho to the strangers who are already eating, or greet the people in the lift or in the bus when we get on.

Then there's the whole 'usted' thing, that also doesn't exist in the English-speaking world, although this is not always polite in a respectful way. It can also be a distancing device, and is sometimes even used in a passive-aggressive way.

Chirimoya said:

OTOH Dominicans (together with other Latin Americans) are more polite when it comes to greetings and introductions. You say 'saludos' or 'buenas', or 'buen d?a' or 'buenas tardes/noches' to complete strangers, upon entering a lift, a bus, a carro p?blico, a shop - even when passing strangers in the street, in certain circumstances. Do that in any big city in Europe and North America and people think you're on day release from a mental facility.

Then there's the whole 'buen provecho'/'a buen tiempo' rituals - non-existent in English-speaking cultures.

When you arrive at a social gathering, even if there are twenty people present, you are expected to greet every single one individually, even if you don't know them, and introduce yourself - fulana, fulano, encantada, igualmente, un placer... In English-speaking countries at least it's often acceptable enough to wave and greet the group vaguely, ignore the people you've never met until introduced, and home in on the ones you do know.

There may be exceptions, I can't speak for the entire English-speaking world, but this is generally speaking.

So, they don't say please, thank you and sorry as much as Brits and other anglos. We think they're rude, but they also think we're rude when we walk into a restaurant and don't say buen provecho to the strangers who are already eating, or greet the people in the lift or in the bus when we get on.

Then there's the whole 'usted' thing, that also doesn't exist in the English-speaking world, although this is not always polite in a respectful way. It can also be a distancing device, and is sometimes even used in a passive-aggressive way.

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Well, I guess this proves one thing about Chiri:

She's really aplatanada!

She is able to see the world from the perspective of a Dominican.... can't say that about most non-Dominican DR1ers!

-NALs

So true Chiri!!!! I really like this about the culture. I feel more welcome here.

In business it is all about the social niceties way before you can even get to the business at hand.

Give them gold

My wife never says please or thank you only when you give them GOLD ha ha

Which brings us right back full circle to culture. Those things like ?'saludos' or 'buenas', or 'buen d?a' or 'buenas tardes/noches' to complete strangers? are those aspects of etiquette that the Dominicans have been taught and taught well. They do this with such repetition that I would venture to say that it has become habit. As to the use of ?usted? it must be remembered that this is a part of the Spanish language and is taught in school and must be learned and this isn?t wrong or incorrect. In the same token the English language doesn?t have this form of grammar and because of that it doesn?t make it wrong or incorrect.

If my words had a tendency to upset some of you please don?t take offense as I was not directing any bad accusations at Dominicans for not having been taught a wider range of etiquette. Their past and present culture just doesn?t have the wider range of etiquette teachings that a lot of other nations have.

At this time I wish to correct some misconceptions that have been posted. When I was growing up in the USA I was taught to greet other people and say things like ?good morning, how are you??. The typical response would be ?good morning, I?m fine, and you??. This is one of the things I also teach my Dominican students in English class here. This isn?t done to the extent that it once was in the US but it isn?t dead and did exist a lot. I now have a question to those that have been to the US. Have you ever been in a restaurant, high or low class, and upon having your food delivered had the waitress or waiter say ?enjoy? or ?enjoy your meal?? I?ve had this happen numerous times all over the US. It might not be on the same scale as saying ?bon app?tit? but it means the same as that or 'buen provecho' so to say it doesn?t exist is stretching it a bit.

Having lived in Germany for 8 years I can assure you that they had the habit of greeting anyone and everyone on the street, in restaurants and such with words like ?guten Morgen? and the use of ?guten appetit? was a normal thing said to total strangers in restaurants and in homes. As I haven?t been there in 29 years I have no idea if these forms of etiquette are still used but they were at one time.

Periodically over the years I?ve read articles in the Dominican newspapers concerning etiquette in an attempt to teach the Dominican readers as to the proper things to do and say. These articles are always preceded with an explanation as to how proper etiquette is lacking here. As these articles were written by Dominicans and directed toward Dominicans I would assume that some Dominicans feel that this is an important aspect of their culture that contains a void and needs to be filled.

Please note that I have never said that the Dominicans are ?rude? because they don?t use the etiquette that I use. They don?t use it because it hasn?t been taught and isn?t in their culture.(Yet)

Rick

Great point about the 'saludos' upon entering caro concho or guagua.
Very true and the first few times I heard it I felt great.

Greetings

Rick Snyder said:

...Having lived in Germany for 8 years I can assure you that they had the habit of greeting anyone and everyone on the street, in restaurants and such with words like ?guten Morgen? and the use of ?guten appetit? was a normal thing said to total strangers in restaurants and in homes....

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Strangers are not greeted in the streets.
(It might still occur in a very small village in some remote parts of the country (as a respect to that 'guest')).

In restaurants or small shops one is greeted by the owner, salespersons or staff (thus welcoming a 'guest' or client).

To say 'Guten Appetit' is normal politeness on serving a meal or sharing it with other people, be it at a restaurant or at a private home.

m'frog

I am intrigued as to why things that are correct in OUR culture should be WRONG if not in the Dominican culture. Why do we need to introduce OUR political correctness on to Dominicans?

Having someone mumble "enjoy" through clenched teeth &/or with a bored impassive face is FAR less rewarding to me than the beaming smiles of appreciation given without a word of thanks! Maybe WE should learn to read the unsaid words by looking at the faces & body language used which amply show the good tidings & well wishes or thanks!

I get right 'miffed' by people who are late for appointments, this is something I have prided myself on since I started work (mumble, mumble, mumble) years ago. Will I ever change this 'culture'? Doubtful (although my dentist DOES make appointments with ME now, rather than the other way around!!), but I try to understand that it is a cultural thing that Dominicans don't have the same need to 'Punch In' to a timescale as we Europeans/North Americans do. If I need a Dominican to stay later at work to complete a task for me (as a client - not a boss) 99% of the time it is done without the resentful faces that we have become accustomed to in 'Civilised' countries! Why the heck should I get concerned then if someone I am waiting to see is a few (up to 59) minutes late??? He/she most likely stopped off to say hello to a friend not seen for the past 3 weeks or so - why should I interfere with such a noteworthy practice?

If I got concerned at these things, the missing 'please's', 'Thank You's', & 'terrible time-keeping', then I would be best to pack my bags & leave! It is THEIR culture/etiquette & they have been around a LOT longer as a country than North America, so who is to say that they are wrong in doing things the way they do? Why do 'they' need to adapt OUR forms of etiquette? (I would include Europe in this but we have been around as a culture a bit longer than Hispanola - & we too probably haven't got it right either!!).~ Grahame.