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  1. #11
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    Conchman, you have explained it beautifully, and you and I understand it.
    The problem is that, the tour operators should make a better effort to deliver that message. Conveniently, it's too complicated, so... it's better to leave it at that.... It's dangerous, stay here.
    Sorry, I can't accept that answer, and I believe that anybody living in DR or with some experience of the island, cant' either.
    They must come with a better answer. One that does not satisfy the lawyers and their associates. Simply one, like you just described, that tells the truth.
    Anybody living in a developed country will understand the risks of walking any street in any country, without any added suspense and or sensationalism

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael Rothschild View Post
    Conchman, you have explained it beautifully, and you and I understand it.
    The problem is that, the tour operators should make a better effort to deliver that message. Conveniently, it's too complicated, so... it's better to leave it at that.... It's dangerous, stay here.
    Sorry, I can't accept that answer, and I believe that anybody living in DR or with some experience of the island, cant' either.
    They must come with a better answer. One that does not satisfy the lawyers and their associates. Simply one, like you just described, that tells the truth.
    Anybody living in a developed country will understand the risks of walking any street in any country, without any added suspense and or sensationalism

    I totally agree and I have brought up the subject to their bosses on several occasions - they give me these reasons but its usually their staff that takes the short cut route since they are themselves often little informed of the country due to high staff turnover (due to market conditions). Of course they are responsible to what their staff says and I do point out this problem to them whenever we meet for business or socially. The AI model is a double edged sword, you can get quick investment and jobs but its not good for the local economy as non-AI resorts. However, where would the DR be right now without them? The AI resorts introduce a lot of people to the country who are likely to come back for another vacation, maybe non-AI resort, or maybe even for retirement. And the jobs give a lot of poor people money which goes back into the economy. Think of suppliers of food, consumables, delivery truck drivers, advertising, it goes on and on...called the 'ripple effect' if my memory from economics class is not failing me.

  3. #13
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    Conchman, the all inclusive resorts, have a choice of the tour operators and salesman operating within their lobbies.
    It does not matter to an "all inclusive" resort where their guests go. Except for the fact that if they miss lunch or dinner, it means less expenses for them.
    So...for the "all inclusive" resorts, my suggestion will mean more dollars for them. Even if you take into consideration the commissions they may get from the tour operators, it will be compensated by the missing dinner guests.
    None of the above can justify the complains in my iniitial post

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael Rothschild View Post
    Conchman, the all inclusive resorts, have a choice of the tour operators and salesman operating within their lobbies.
    It does not matter to an "all inclusive" resort where their guests go. Except for the fact that if they miss lunch or dinner, it means less expenses for them.
    So...for the "all inclusive" resorts, my suggestion will mean more dollars for them. Even if you take into consideration the commissions they may get from the tour operators, it will be compensated by the missing dinner guests.
    None of the above can justify the complains in my iniitial post
    Actually some of the tour operators actually have ownership in the hotels they book, like the RIU's in Maimon for example where TUI/Thomson has 49% ownership. A Playa Dorada hotel was just recently purchased completely by a tour operator. So the tour operator IS the AI in some cases.

    Other AI's don't have much of a choice either as some tour operators control over 50% of their rooms during certain times of the year and are in position to tell the resorts what to do and often have more power than the hotel management.

    Tour operators can demand conditions like having the rights to sell excursions to their clients. If the AI wants to stay alive in a competitive environment that it is, they have to let them do it.

    I agree the whole system sucks and its wrong to tell guests what they tell them. It hurts our business too, so trust me, I am not trying to defend them. However, if people know the real reason or are more informed as to why its happening than we can all do better to try to stop it.

    Either the TO's stop it themselves via outrage like yours on the internet or involuntarily like via a law or fine or something. Maybe the Federation of Tour Operators or the Hotel Association can address this problem (more likely the latter) It has to be in the TO's interest to stop doing it and thats the hard part to implement.
    .

  5. #15
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    In essence I agree but.... have you seen many of the people in the resorts? I live in SD and often do weekend trips to various beaches (not much choice, nice Hotels are all AI). I am not saying they are morons but I think not even half of them have the ability & sensibility to handle a 3rd world country environment. Its also not just protecting the tourist from the DR, its also protecting the DR from the "bad" tourists. Compare Boca Chica from 20 years ago to today. It literally got ruined by "bad" tourism.

    What I also find special about the AI resorts in the DR is the complete lack of "planification" outside the resort walls. Compare Punta Cana to Cancun. As soon as you leave the resort it is usually a complete mess without any transition. The strip behind the Punta Cana resorts goes like: Gas Station, Muffler shop, Cabanas, Colmado, another muffler shop... (the kind of strip even a mid-class Dominican from SD would lock his car form the inside and stop for noone). The historic stuff that would interest a typical non-AI-photo-cam traveler is often way too far form the resort areas.

    I also agree it sucks and wish it was different, not just the AI policy but first and foremost the whole surrounding infrastructure.

  6. #16
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    I want to edit my last post but edit feature is not working at the moment. I hate when that happens and I want to change something before I go to bed. Basically what I wanted to add is that I will make it a point during meetings with hotel assocation officials and government leaders that they need to address this problem.
    Last edited by Conchman; 12-27-2006 at 01:03 AM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlantaFULL View Post
    In essence I agree but.... have you seen many of the people in the resorts? I live in SD and often do weekend trips to various beaches (not much choice, nice Hotels are all AI). I am not saying they are morons but I think not even half of them have the ability & sensibility to handle a 3rd world country environment. Its also not just protecting the tourist from the DR, its also protecting the DR from the "bad" tourists. Compare Boca Chica from 20 years ago to today. It literally got ruined by "bad" tourism.

    What I also find special about the AI resorts in the DR is the complete lack of "planification" outside the resort walls. Compare Punta Cana to Cancun. As soon as you leave the resort it is usually a complete mess without any transition. The strip behind the Punta Cana resorts goes like: Gas Station, Muffler shop, Cabanas, Colmado, another muffler shop... (the kind of strip even a mid-class Dominican from SD would lock his car form the inside and stop for noone). The historic stuff that would interest a typical non-AI-photo-cam traveler is often way too far form the resort areas.

    I also agree it sucks and wish it was different, not just the AI policy but first and foremost the whole surrounding infrastructure.

    Thats a good point, in many other countries the TO's would not have to do this but in the DR there is just so much craziness on a daily basis. Look at the main road construction in Puerto Plata, after 9 months of construction we have what? Certainly not a road you would want a tourist to drive a rent a car in, or to ride on a moto concho. And that is the main highway!

  8. #18
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    without going out of anybody's way here, I hear that my original post is more than justified.
    I am not trying to make a perfect world. I am completely ignorant of the deals the resorts have with tour operators, government officials, girl friends,
    lovers or whatever.
    IT IS SIMPLE GUYS: IS IT MORAL OR IT'S NOT?
    IS IT FAIR OR IS IT A FARSE?
    We don't need monday morning quarterbacks to analyse a past game.
    It's a simple moral fact in which of all of us can trully dig into our true sense of values and decide. No what if's here.
    If I was a poliitician I would not be posting ideas here. I believe I am better than that.
    If anybody here can trully defend the position of tour operators say so, without any excuses.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael Rothschild View Post
    without going out of anybody's way here, I hear that my original post is more than justified.
    I am not trying to make a perfect world. I am completely ignorant of the deals the resorts have with tour operators, government officials, girl friends,
    lovers or whatever.
    IT IS SIMPLE GUYS: IS IT MORAL OR IT'S NOT?
    IS IT FAIR OR IS IT A FARSE?
    We don't need monday morning quarterbacks to analyse a past game.
    It's a simple moral fact in which of all of us can trully dig into our true sense of values and decide. No what if's here.
    If I was a poliitician I would not be posting ideas here. I believe I am better than that.
    If anybody here can trully defend the position of tour operators say so, without any excuses.
    It's a simple case of logistics.
    Tour operators, all inclusive hotels and tour reps, all want to make money.
    That is the fundamental principle of business.
    AI resorts barely make profit from the sale of the package, if at all.
    The real profit is from what they sell their guests while they are here, be it from the boutiques, changing money or selling them tours.
    To expect them to go to all the trouble of getting a guest into their resort and then tell them that they should go spend their money elsewhere is ludicrous.
    It's tantamount to a Chevrolet dealer getting a client into his showroom, and telling him that the Fords across the street are great.
    And is it true that it's more dangerous outside the resort?
    Yes!
    And who has to clean up the mess if a guest does get in trouble outside of the resort?
    The tour rep.
    So why in the world would the tour rep want the guest to go out of the resort, when they would lose revenue and complicate their lives?
    This is not rocket science.
    There is nothing immoral going on here and it's sound business.
    As someone pointed out, most of the tourists who go to the AI resorts aren't even capable of dealing with the DR's "real world".

  10. #20
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    "Basically what I wanted to add is that I will make it a point during meetings with hotel assocation officials and government leaders that they need to address this problem."

    Thank you Conchman.

    I am also reporting this through my friend in the DR's General Consulate in New York.

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