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  1. #1
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    Default An open e-mail to a DR1 poster

    Hello Keith and thank you for your e-mail.

    I have to tell you first that I, personally, have lots of respect for UK and all its citizens.
    Bad apples grow everywhere.

    However, Keith, having made about 9 trips to DR (six this year), plus the fact that I speak spanish and I'm a very, very open and friendly person; I just can't agree with some of the posters in DR1.

    They may have lived there for 15 years, but guess what? every single one I met, speaks little or poor spanish, and, as I suspected from the beginning (now I'm sure) they are much less qualified than I am to pass judgement on most of the decent dominicans, their culture and the current situation.

    Keith, these are the same people, that while complaining about the culture in DR, they have 2, 3, 4 servants getting minimum wages. Keith, I'm no communist, believe me, but I just can't look the other way, be judgemental and critical of a society than I'm taking advantage of, big time.... and then claim... oh well... these people have no solution, they will always remain savages.

    The worse thing that has happened to DR, is not the "all inclusive" or the perceived corrupted government, or the inexistant infra-structure; it's the bad foreigners and the abusive and heartless investors, who, just like Spain did 500 years ago, they are robbing the natives and insulting them.

    As for me, I'm not naive, but I just can't enjoy any environment in which people refuse to create a plain leveled field.

    Keith, I'm a poker player, I play Texas Holdem on the internet every day and on occasion in Vegas and Atlantic City. I had the opportunity to play Texas Holdem one day at the new Ocean World casino.
    Of course, no natives were there, the owner's son was at the table with some of his rich friends, plus a couple of Brits, some yatch guys and a couple of ladies.
    After about 2 hours of listening to the ongoing conversation, I asked myself, what are you doing here Rafael?
    There is much, much more value in sharing a humble BBQ with the locals in a small village, than listening to the barrage of empty conversation at that table.
    Keith, these are the same people they claim the DR has no solution. NO WONDER!!!! Of course not, as long as they live there.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael Rothschild View Post
    Hello Keith and thank you for your e-mail.

    I have to tell you first that I, personally, have lots of respect for UK and all its citizens.
    Bad apples grow everywhere.

    However, Keith, having made about 9 trips to DR (six this year), plus the fact that I speak spanish and I'm a very, very open and friendly person; I just can't agree with some of the posters in DR1.

    They may have lived there for 15 years, but guess what? every single one I met, speaks little or poor spanish, and, as I suspected from the beginning (now I'm sure) they are much less qualified than I am to pass judgement on most of the decent dominicans, their culture and the current situation.

    Keith, these are the same people, that while complaining about the culture in DR, they have 2, 3, 4 servants getting minimum wages. Keith, I'm no communist, believe me, but I just can't look the other way, be judgemental and critical of a society than I'm taking advantage of, big time.... and then claim... oh well... these people have no solution, they will always remain savages.

    The worse thing that has happened to DR, is not the "all inclusive" or the perceived corrupted government, or the inexistant infra-structure; it's the bad foreigners and the abusive and heartless investors, who, just like Spain did 500 years ago, they are robbing the natives and insulting them.

    As for me, I'm not naive, but I just can't enjoy any environment in which people refuse to create a plain leveled field.

    Keith, I'm a poker player, I play Texas Holdem on the internet every day and on occasion in Vegas and Atlantic City. I had the opportunity to play Texas Holdem one day at the new Ocean World casino.
    Of course, no natives were there, the owner's son was at the table with some of his rich friends, plus a couple of Brits, some yatch guys and a couple of ladies.
    After about 2 hours of listening to the ongoing conversation, I asked myself, what are you doing here Rafael?
    There is much, much more value in sharing a humble BBQ with the locals in a small village, than listening to the barrage of empty conversation at that table.
    Keith, these are the same people they claim the DR has no solution. NO WONDER!!!! Of course not, as long as they live there.
    It was very nice to welcome you to our house too Rafael ~ Grahame.

  3. #3
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    By the way, thank you for your e-mail & the heartfelt compliments it contained re the work we do here. ~ Grahame.
    Last edited by BushBaby; 12-29-2006 at 01:26 AM. Reason: Duplication of previous post

  4. #4
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    Thumbs down

    Rafael,
    I've enjoyed your posts over the last couple of months... until now.

    There's quite a bit of arrogance in assuming 9 visits (6 this year) have entitled you to comment so strongly.

    For someone so enamored with DR and anti-visitor/expat, you certainly sound like a tourist based on your recommendations to ex-navy in the thread http://www.dr1.com/forums/north-coas...rto-plata.html.
    Earlier tonight while reading I was honestly thinking 'my what touristy recommendations for someone that starts out by saying get out of the AI's. Because then you suggest jewelry shopping, Teddy's Bar-b-que, Cofresi Bar & Grill, Pier Giorgio, the casino at Ocean World, go to the little island where all the tours go, etc.' Doesn't sound too off the beaten path to me. And according to you that's how you spent your last two trips. You sound much like any other tourist spending their time and money in the tourism related businesses.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't like the intolerance, lack of respect, and arrogance exhibited by some visitors,expats, and businesses toward Dominicans. But to claim they are the oppressive factor holding back the country is a little too dramatic. (not to mention lumping BushBaby in with all the bad expats and suggesting they are not involved in the community)
    Last edited by CFA123; 12-29-2006 at 01:44 AM.

  5. #5
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    Please grahame, I never intended to imply you in my comments, you and Ginnie were extremely kind to us.
    But, please, Grahame, I'm not the typical tourist, I have (in my 9 trips) explored and talked to more people that you can imagine.
    My statement, is a general analysis of my perception and experiences in DR.
    It includes, very wealthy, middles class and very poor people in Santo domingo, Juan Dolio, San Pedro de Macoris, La Romana, (both business and pleasure) and of course the north coast. And moreover, I trully believe in my statements.
    However, it's not a derogatory remark to state that I speak better spanish than anybody I met, just like I recognize that you and many others here speak and write much better english than me.
    This thread is not intended to offend anybody, and it could not, since I know very little of the personal lives of any of the posters here.
    But, you can't deny, that feelings and perceptions are free, and sometimes well founded.
    I just hope this is the case

  6. #6
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    CFA123, I will give you credit for your statements.
    Not only that, I will humbly accept that not me (or others) are in possession of the whole truth and nothing but the thuth.
    But if I feel compelled to trully express my thoughts, what can possibly be wrong about that?
    Lets debate

  7. #7
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    You know what CFA123?

    I believe you are right, my comments are, to say the least, a bit dramatic.

    Good!!! maybe they will give some people something to think about.

    Since the truth ussually lies in the middle, I don't mind going to extremes,

    At least, we'll have a balanced discussion.

  8. #8
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    CFA123
    What do you expect me to recommend a married couple going for the first time to DR?

    Go to the Malecon in Santo Domingo... and by the way carry a weapon?

  9. #9
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    I am aware that a very disappointed Lambada is typing a response to your first post as I answer this latest one Rafael. I hope we do not duplicate too much.

    If you did not mean to include people like ourselves, Planner & all the others you met when talking about the clean up Sosua campaign, then you should have said "most" rather than 'EVERY' - don't come the English is my second/third language please, from previous threads you clearly know the difference. I note in your comment to placate us somewhat, you neglect to add that we also know a little about the culture here, we treat our staff well etc. etc. etc.

    If the post was not meant to offend - why be so aggressive in your comments? If you don't get to know what the filthy exploiting Ex-Pat resident is paying his staff, why make the assumption & post that? Why be so blatantly antagonistic? DR1 has seen many a fervent poster with good ideas pass on to new areas simply because of this attitude - Perhaps a little humility & acknowledgment that those who disagree with you are also expressing feelings & perceptions & (right or wrong) are permitted to express them without personal attacks from you!!

    At the risk of upsetting you further, please reconsider your style of posting & allow the good that is within you to be accepted & rewarded with friendship - not repulsed! Maybe you are showing a little too much "Latino Spirit"??? ~ Grahame.

  10. #10
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    Fair enough, Rafael.
    I think we're probably more in agreement than opposing sides... I think I objected more to how I perceived the tone of your post.

    We were writing our responses at the same time apparently.
    I didn't have the benefit of knowing you'd travelled a little more outside of the 'touristy places'. I also think doing business in DR with Dominicans gives one a realization of just how forward thinking many are - while achieving much in spite of the difficulties one encounters from lack of stable infrastructure and undereducated labor forces. Is that how you've become acquainted with those in the middle & upper class? It's not that easily done without a business reason to get a relationship started. They all have their own lives and little incentive to socialize with tourists. (same as in any country)

    Regarding your bad expat/tourists,

    I think tourists in DR fall into three basic groups:
    1) those looking for some time to bake in the sun at an AI
    2) those who enjoy exploring new places, enjoying nature, and diff't cultures
    3) those who scrimp and save for a year to take several hundred dollars to DR to feel like a 'somebody' by thinking they are better than their hosts or, even worse, making their trip for the sole purpose of sex

    I think expats in DR fall into three basic groups as well:
    1) those who moved to DR due to their jobs
    2) those who moved to DR for the climate, lower cost of living, slower pace
    3) those who moved to DR to take advantage of the country in one way or another. either escaping problems back home, scamming people through business ventures, wanting a place they can cheaply drink themselves into oblivion, or once again... for reasons related to the availability of sex that they can't seem to get back home

    In each case it's the #3 reason that I think you're objecting to. If so, we don't have much of a debate

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