What is the real problem about electricity supply in DR?

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Rafael Rothschild

Member
Oct 29, 2006
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After several months of reading very good posts in this forum, and, of course, having personally experienced the current problem in DR. Does anybody here have a really educated and well informed answer about the causes of this problem?

I come from a very mountainous country (Spain) and while, many years ago, a dictator (Franco), Similar in style to Trujillo, created a very effective system of dams, which 60 years later is still being applauded for the futuristic vision, and its results are being enjoyed by today's citizens.

Now, this is my question: The DR is also a very mountainous country, with what I believe (I'm not sure about this one) sufficient rivers to create a similar system of dams for energy supply. Why this has not happened in DR?

Is this an engineering impossibility?

Has DR have any nuclear plants producing electricity? (I guess not)

Why, after so many decades of inefficient service, none of the foreign power companies and/or consultants have come to the "profitable" rescue?

What makes it so complicated to provide steady and reliable electrical service, when this is a technology over a 100 years old?

Please, please, I don't want to hear about the corrupt government (while I agree it may be part of the problem) I would like, very much, to know the actual and technical problems that make this a unique DR case.

Thank you
 
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canadian bob

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Jan 16, 2002
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Hey Rafael! One of the many problems is the 40odd year old electrical infrastructure, ancient transformers (and too many connections, legal and otherwise). Innumerable illegal hookups by all classes, commercial and poor folks, with little fear of prosecution. "Nonsensical" contracts signed by the Government whereby payments for power produced are based on the theoretical power output, instead of the actual power produced. Also, the absence of maintenance in all aspects of production, and refusal to fix reported problems doesn't help matters. Canadian Bob.
 
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Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
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There are several dams across the country, and they generate part of the country's electricity supply. IIRC it's about a fifth of the total.
 
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Rocky

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Apr 4, 2002
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The real question

The real question is how it manages to work as well as it does.
Factor in the inadequate wiring, lack of knowledge, general lazyness and lack of interest from the employees, and it you will realize how truly amazing it is, that the system works as well as it does.
 
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heldengebroed

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Mar 9, 2005
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What i find even more amazing is the lack of reaction from the consumer to this black-outs. I know the day i come tot the DR to live i will find a way to be independant from this problem; be it by wind, water or sun

Greetings

Johan
 
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Chip00

Guest
Rafael Rothschild said:
Now, this is my question: The DR is also a very mountainous country, with what I believe (I'm not sure about this one) sufficient rivers to create a similar system of dams for energy supply. Why this has not happened in DR?

Is this an engineering impossibility?
Click to expand...

Raffy

I'm a civil engineer by trade and you bring up a very good question. I understand that there are dams on the island but as to why there aren't more given that this is a mountainous country I could only postulate that it may be due to the lack of rivers remaining with large enough watersheds and thus large enough baseflows to justify the investment.
 
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Mirador

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Apr 15, 2004
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Chip00 said:
Raffy

I'm a civil engineer by trade and you bring up a very good question. I understand that there are dams on the island but as to why there aren't more given that this is a mountainous country I could only postulate that it may be due to the lack of rivers remaining with large enough watersheds and thus large enough baseflows to justify the investment.
Click to expand...

you can postulate all you want, but the fact remains that the DR has neither the capital nor the credit for the huge investment that dam building represents, and neither the rain water. As a matter of fact, lack of maintanance (dredging...) has significantly reduced the capacity of most dams...
 
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gamana

New member
Apr 24, 2006
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i think the major issue is a simple unwillingness from the top executive and corporate levels to really fix the problem. Numerous countries worldwide are starting to offer "upfront" cash/loans to help countries set up major alternative energy production (ie: Solar) in order to acquire their gas emission credits. DR could easily benefit from that and overhaul the entire system or reduce the older system to a lesser production level.
 
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Chip00

Guest
Mirador said:
you can postulate all you want, but the fact remains that the DR has neither the capital nor the credit for the huge investment that dam building represents, and neither the rain water. As a matter of fact, lack of maintanance (dredging...) has significantly reduced the capacity of most dams...
Click to expand...

It appears from aquick search of the DR1 archives that the majority of the power generating plants are controlled by foreign companies - therefore what's all this "postualting" about no capital??????

www.dr1.com/forums/general-stuff/20814-truth-about-union-fenosa.html

www.dr1.com/news/2003/dnews031403.shtml
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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Chip00 said:
It appears from aquick search of the DR1 archives that the majority of the power generating plants are controlled by foreign companies - therefore what's all this "postualting" about no capital??????

www.dr1.com/forums/general-stuff/20814-truth-about-union-fenosa.html

www.dr1.com/news/2003/dnews031403.shtml
Click to expand...
Why would any good businessman invest MORE capital in a country when a huge percentage of it's customers steal from them? There are whole neighborhoods all over the country where virtually every house/apartment is getting "free" electricity. The company sends out crews to disconnect, and it gets reconnected as soon as the company trucks are leaving. I've seen it with my own eyes!
 
Hillbilly

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
18,948
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2? from HB

1) Political issues are foremost. Absolutely!! NO government is willing to take the steps necessary to collect for the electricity provided to the poorer areas or to certain "untouchables" for which we can find myriad examples: generals & other top or well entrenched officials of the armed forces; leading politicians; extremely wealthy folks etc...and some industries. Until everyone pays, there is no solution.

2) A culture of corruption which permits stealing electricity, illegal hookups or payoffs....well engrained.

3) A culture of "poverty" that says, "I am poor, therefore, the government owes me water and electricity, cheap transportation and free hospital care."

4) There are about 12 hydro dams located in the DR, and they are in pretty pitiful condition. During the PRD government there were announcements that the government had refitted them. Bullsh!t!!!Bullsh!t!! Pure bullsh!t....I just happen to know the fellow that was negotiating a contract to properly refit the electro-mechanical aspects of the hydro stations and they have yet to begin....too many hands out there looking for money...As a result, the dams are producing much less than 50% of their capacity. As Mirador correctly pointed out, a lack of environmental maintainence has allowed silt to reduce the generating capacity by an importan factor. At first, the area around Tavera and Bao were being supervised by trained agronomists who struggled with the forestry issues....but they were cancelled and the neighboring hills were stripped....EOS.

4) Nuclear? Not on your life! This is totally earthquake sustible island....nobody in their right mind would construct a nuke facility here.....Chernoble(?) would look like a picnic...

SOLUTIONS?: Short term: none

Medium term: a revamp of transmission lines, transformers, illegal hookups and non-paying clients, together with the much talked about refitting of the power generation stations at the current hydro locations. A study of possible future sites.

Long term: An absolutely huge push to reforest the mountains and regain some of the more normal rain cycles.

ITEM: The much ballyhooed coal fired generators have yet to get financing. Worse even, if they were constructing the generators, there are NO TRANSMISSION LINES TO GET THE ENERGY TO CUSTOMERS!! No Sh!t! the CDEE does not have the money to build the needed hig tension lines from the generators in

Azua and Manzanillo to the nation's power grid!!!!!!!!! OMG!! How phucked up can you get???

Outta here before i puke!

HB
 
C

Chip00

Guest
cobraboy said:
Why would any good businessman invest MORE capital in a country when a huge percentage of it's customers steal from them? There are whole neighborhoods all over the country where virtually every house/apartment is getting "free" electricity. The company sends out crews to disconnect, and it gets reconnected as soon as the company trucks are leaving. I've seen it with my own eyes!
Click to expand...

You got that right -THAT is a major problem. Unfortunately the police won't enforce the power companies rights. On the other hand, when power here costs three times as much as in the US one can ask - who is robbing who?

Finally, many Dominicans see it an an inherent right to not to have to pay for power as typically their parents nor their parent's parents paid for power.

How does one fix a problem as such? - very carefully and slowly so as not to have major public disturbances. They need to enforce it in progressively more areas until the public "awareness" of the fact of the paying for power is inevitable and here to stay.
 
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Mirador

On Permanent Vacation!
Apr 15, 2004
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Chip00 said:
...How does one fix a problem as such? - very carefully and slowly so as not to have major public disturbances....QUOTE]

public disturbance? ha!. Dominicans are too indolent and cowards to make any public disturbance over this matter. How to fix the problem? like any other bad habit! Cold turkey! Where are the generals?!!!*

answer: also on the take!
Click to expand...
 
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Chip00

Guest
Mirador said:
public disturbance? ha!. Dominicans are too indolent and cowards to make any public disturbance over this matter. How to fix the problem? like any other bad habit! Cold turkey!
Click to expand...

I think "cowards" is a rather strong word. I have no doubt that there would be a major disturbance if all of a sudden they tried to go "cold turkey". Just look at what happens when Leonel anounces that he is going to be raising prices.

Also, I don't know if you have ever lived in campo here in the DR but I have and in my experience is a lot of the people are dirt poor and rely on the power to wash ther clothes and power up the inversores if they have them. Take these two seemingly "insignificat luxeries" away and your going to have a lot of unhappy campers burning tires and throwing rocks.
 
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Mirador

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Apr 15, 2004
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Chip00 said:
I think "cowards" is a rather strong word. ...

Also, I don't know if you have ever lived in campo here ....
Click to expand...

But I do live in the campo, on the foothills north of Azua to be specific (currently I'm in Santo Domingo on vacation... ;-). "cowards" is not a strong word, actually they are more like rats, that show their teeth only when cornered.
 
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gamana

New member
Apr 24, 2006
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some countries seize production facilities and distribution network from foreign entities in the name of protecting natioanl interest. It might happen here one day if a solution is not found.....:pirate:

I don't know where the government would find the money to revamp the system though as dominicans would still not pay for it.

as a step towards improving the situation, maybe the goverment should revisit the law in tax exemption for tourist projects. Foreign entities should get additional years of tax exemption, if they build their facitilites with off grid solar systems. The coastline mega resorts are the Kwatt guzzlers of DR.
 
J

jalencastro

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Dec 15, 2004
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hey Hillbilly

Hillbilly said:
1) Political issues are foremost. Absolutely!! NO government is willing to take the steps necessary to collect for the electricity provided to the poorer areas or to certain "untouchables" for which we can find myriad examples: generals & other top or well entrenched officials of the armed forces; leading politicians; extremely wealthy folks etc...and some industries. Until everyone pays, there is no solution.

2) A culture of corruption which permits stealing electricity, illegal hookups or payoffs....well engrained.

3) A culture of "poverty" that says, "I am poor, therefore, the government owes me water and electricity, cheap transportation and free hospital care."

4) There are about 12 hydro dams located in the DR, and they are in pretty pitiful condition. During the PRD government there were announcements that the government had refitted them. Bullsh!t!!!Bullsh!t!! Pure bullsh!t....I just happen to know the fellow that was negotiating a contract to properly refit the electro-mechanical aspects of the hydro stations and they have yet to begin....too many hands out there looking for money...As a result, the dams are producing much less than 50% of their capacity. As Mirador correctly pointed out, a lack of environmental maintainence has allowed silt to reduce the generating capacity by an importan factor. At first, the area around Tavera and Bao were being supervised by trained agronomists who struggled with the forestry issues....but they were cancelled and the neighboring hills were stripped....EOS.

4) Nuclear? Not on your life! This is totally earthquake sustible island....nobody in their right mind would construct a nuke facility here.....Chernoble(?) would look like a picnic...

SOLUTIONS?: Short term: none

Medium term: a revamp of transmission lines, transformers, illegal hookups and non-paying clients, together with the much talked about refitting of the power generation stations at the current hydro locations. A study of possible future sites.

Long term: An absolutely huge push to reforest the mountains and regain some of the more normal rain cycles.

ITEM: The much ballyhooed coal fired generators have yet to get financing. Worse even, if they were constructing the generators, there are NO TRANSMISSION LINES TO GET THE ENERGY TO CUSTOMERS!! No Sh!t! the CDEE does not have the money to build the needed hig tension lines from the generators in

Azua and Manzanillo to the nation's power grid!!!!!!!!! OMG!! How phucked up can you get???

Outta here before i puke!

HB
Click to expand...

this is my first time i have written to YOU personally, and i would like to say you know a hell of a lot about DR! thanks for all your posts and insight!
i just got back from my 5th trip there on jan 2nd and loved it! regardless of how the country is run, crime, power outtages and all that makes up the island. but i do agree that the power situation is pitiful and poorly managed. i am amazed to read your post and your knowledge on the situation, i definatly think something needs to be done to make the system more efficient. it's easy to say overhaul all the crappy machinery/plants that supply the country's juice....this needs to be a collective effort between the people, workers, government, investors and technology [wherever it comes from]. i personally stayed in San Cristobal most of the time, in a small campo of Najayo and am used to there being no power but it is VERY annoying. frustrating to go to a colmado and find beer is warm due to the power being out half the damn day! SHEESH!

Jaime :ermm:
 
C

Chris

Gold
Oct 21, 2002
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Rafael Rothschild said:
Please, please, I don't want to hear about the corrupt government (while I agree it may be part of the problem) I would like, very much, to know the actual and technical problems that make this a unique DR case.

Thank you
Click to expand...

Heheheh .. I did not answer earlier today because of this paragraph. So, I won't tell you about the corrupt government, but the President of the American Chamber of Commerce in Santo Domingo will tell you the main problem is fraud. http://www.dominicantoday.com/app/article.aspx?id=21467
 
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