Vigilante Group

A

A.Hidalgo

Silver
Apr 28, 2006
3,268
98
0
Some here will probably cheer at this development, but others (me) may see this as something like the wild wild west, that could be avoided if only the authorities perform their duties correctly. Certain barrios in Santiago are organizing vigilante groups to protect themselves against a rising crime wave. One of the leaders Jose Consuegra said "we are not looking to do justice, rather teach them a lesson". How far will these "lessons" go, enough to see some blood or beyond, that is the question. What if the wrong person is caught?

Just because certain sections of the city may be poor, it is the responsibility of the authorities to monitor them as they would richer areas. Ignore the poor barrios and sooner or later the problem will spill over like a virus.


http://www.dominicantoday.com/app/article.aspx?id=22120
 
C

Chip00

Guest
Vigilante?

I think it is a good idea basically because it doesn't appear to be of the "vigilant justice" type that was witnessed in Jarabacoa recently.

Purportedly, they will turn over the criminals to the police and, hey if the criminals "fall" on the way and "crack" their head it's their own fault. Tigueres beware!

If you the think this is done only in "third world countries" think again - the "guardian Angels" just set up shop in Orlando, Fl, home of Mickey where I used to live!

Guardian Angels Plan To Open New Locations - Yahoo! News
 
J D Sauser

J D Sauser

Silver
Nov 20, 2004
2,940
390
83
www.hispanosuizainvest.com
Most business have a "guardia" and so do many developments. They are not the authorities either and they do wear weapons. But then the "guardia" sometimes IS the very problem and so it seems understandable that some neighbors get together and handle their security themselves. They would not have to if the authorities would indeed provide the security.
If you cross into a property with a sign that says "No trespassing" in Texas, you can get shot... actually you can get shot for being mistaken for a quail there... but that's another story ;) ... Vigilante Groups do not shoot quails... so...
I think that after one or two out most regrettable incidents and/or "accidents" it will do what it is supposed to do; deter.
And that's good, robbers and thieves should be routinely provided with a friendly reminder that they are in a high risk business... poor ones too... for their own protection, of course... (the best way not to suffer from acute lead poisoning, may still be not to enter in other peoples homes uninvited).

... J-D.
 
L

Lambada

Gold
Mar 4, 2004
9,478
410
0
80
www.ginniebedggood.com
I just hope the idea doesn't take off in the gringo community. :ermm: Neighbourhood Watch and Vigilante are 2 entirely different things. Neighbourhood Watch type groups are a good thing in my view. But gringo only vigilante............perish the thought.
 
R

Rocky

Honorificabilitudinitatibus
Apr 4, 2002
13,993
208
0
111
www.rockysbar.com
A.Hidalgo said:
Certain barrios in Santiago are organizing vigilante groups to protect themselves against a rising crime wave.
Click to expand...
What else can they do?
Roll over and play dead?
Sure it's dangerous and an innocent person could get hurt, but no worse than when the cops are involved.
If we believe that drugs are the main reason for violent crime, and that the drug business is protected by the cops, then vigilante groups may be the only solution.
 
oldschool

oldschool

Active member
Oct 9, 2004
537
22
38
Could get ugly

It is a good idea until they actually carry it out on the first person doing something illegal. Then they find out he was a cop or friends of the police with there stupid carnet's. The cops then come down to find the people who did it. The Barrio gets all in an uproar, riots start, etc......
 
R

Rocky

Honorificabilitudinitatibus
Apr 4, 2002
13,993
208
0
111
www.rockysbar.com
oldschool said:
It is a good idea until they actually carry it out on the first person doing something illegal. Then they find out he was a cop or friends of the police with there stupid carnet's. The cops then come down to find the people who did it. The Barrio gets all in an uproar, riots start, etc......
Click to expand...
All sorts of things can go wrong when you go to war, and that's what it is.... WAR!
 
SantiagoDR

SantiagoDR

The "REAL" SantiagoDR
Jan 12, 2006
5,812
950
113
Rocky said:
What else can they do?
Roll over and play dead?
Sure it's dangerous and an innocent person could get hurt, but no worse than when the cops are involved.
If we believe that drugs are the main reason for violent crime, and that the drug business is protected by the cops, then vigilante groups may be the only solution.
Click to expand...

The gangs get you twice, they rob you, then again because they threaten you with the fact that they are a gang, and that you should just accept your loss.

A neighbor's house was robbed, his friend found where the stuff was, but they refused to do anything about it because they were afraid the gang members would come after them for calling the police

Good post Rocky.....
 
T

Tuan

New member
Aug 28, 2004
204
2
0
Solution is to give the local vigilantes uniforms and guns, call them municipal police, pay them with the Liga de Municipalidades funds which otherwise go stolen, and finally, get rid of the natiional police which will probably happen by attrition if the town cops are successful in catching bad guys.
I hope they DO mete out justice as well.
 
K

Ken

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
13,884
495
83
I commend the barrios that are organizing to protect themselves. What other option do they have? If you live here and don't have your head in the sand, you know that it is necessary to protect yourself because you can't rely on the authorities to do it with you. Too often policeman have been in the group doing the terrorizing.
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Rocky said:
What else can they do?
Roll over and play dead?
Sure it's dangerous and an innocent person could get hurt, but no worse than when the cops are involved.
If we believe that drugs are the main reason for violent crime, and that the drug business is protected by the cops, then vigilante groups may be the only solution.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

When the authorities cannot provide the protection citizens require, citizens have an obligation to solve the problem for themselves.

I wonder: are there "Neighborhood Watch" programs set up anywhere in the DR? They are all over where Ilive in Tampa. Heck, MoM CB lives in a Senior Citizens area where they have 3 cars with full communications equipment and a person at a "dispatcher" desk 24/7/365.
 
A

A.Hidalgo

Silver
Apr 28, 2006
3,268
98
0
Lambada said:
I just hope the idea doesn't take off in the gringo community. :ermm: Neighbourhood Watch and Vigilante are 2 entirely different things. Neighbourhood Watch type groups are a good thing in my view. But gringo only vigilante............perish the thought.
Click to expand...

Totally agree Neighbourhood Watch and Vigilante groups two different animals.
 
L

Lambada

Gold
Mar 4, 2004
9,478
410
0
80
www.ginniebedggood.com
Don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not against Dominicans (or anyone else) organising to protect themselves. Not that it would make the slightest bit of difference if I was, seeing as how vigilante groups in the barrios are a fact of life here. I just don't want to see vigilante style justice carried out by groups of enthusiatic new expats who don't know what they're doing.........:paranoid: sends entirely the wrong message.

Here is a good example of, let's call it people being vigilant, rather than vigilante (otherwise we'll get caught up on semantics). The farming community of Montellano, just outside Purto Plata, had for some time suffered loss of farm animals, produce etc and didn't get much help from the police in tracking down the thief. So they organised themselves, last Saturday they caught the guy in the act, apprehended him and handed him over to the police. Good work! A lot better than some of the things which went on over the weekend in PP: a German woman robbed on the Malecon & a whole lot of stuff in the barrios.
Puerto Plata Digital

What I would be in favour of foreigners doing is blowing the whistle on our own bad apples. Like this guy Matt Brian in San Cristobal who was apparently processing & dealing drugs, if the report is true.
El Nacional, la voz de todos
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
"Vigilanteism" is a decidedly local/Dominican issue. Expats getting involved would be a really, really, really bad idea.

I can call my sister ugly. You do it and I'll kick your butt.

Nobody likes an "outsider" coming in and telling folks what to do or how bad things are.
 
R

Rocky

Honorificabilitudinitatibus
Apr 4, 2002
13,993
208
0
111
www.rockysbar.com
This thread could easily get off track.
This is not a gringo thing.
What it is, is a whisper of hope for other barrio dwellers.
Once they hear about it, maybe they will do something too.
We discussed this approach extensively in the Ceballo thread, wondering why the good folks in the barrios didn't do something about the drug dealers.
Maybe they'll start cleaning up in Santiago and inspire people in other areas of the country.
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Rocky said:
This thread could easily get off track.
This is not a gringo thing.
What it is, is a whisper of hope for other barrio dwellers.
Once they hear about it, maybe they will do something too.
We discussed this approach extensively in the Ceballo thread, wondering why the good folks in the barrios didn't do something about the drug dealers.
Maybe they'll start cleaning up in Santiago and inspire people in other areas of the country.
Click to expand...
You're a brilliant guy, Rocky (code for: you agree with me...;)).

Sometimes vigilante's work.

For instance, one I am intimately familiar with:

In the early 80's Castro flushed his prisons and mental hospitals during the Mariel Boat Lift. Most went to Miami; many made their way to Tampa because of the very old Latin community there. Crime, including violent crime, went through the roof, especially in the area of West Tampa where the Latin Community was centered. The Police seemed helpless and impotent to do anything substantial.

For a week or so in March '81, badly beaten, lifeless bodies with signs saying "no aqui" (literally) nailed to the "victims" chest were found in major intersections in West Tampa. Maybe 20 in total. Very shortly thereafter, the crime in West Tampa dropped like the proverbial rock. Every body was found to have had a criminal/mental history in Cuba.

I don't advocate violent behavior like that. But then again, I didn't live in West Tampa. But those folks did for themselves what the police couldn't (or wouldn't) do. And I'm not aware of one person brought up on charges for the...err..."cleansing".
 
R

Rocky

Honorificabilitudinitatibus
Apr 4, 2002
13,993
208
0
111
www.rockysbar.com
cobraboy said:
I don't advocate violent behavior like that. But then again, I didn't live in West Tampa. But those folks did for themselves what the police couldn't (or wouldn't) do. And I'm not aware of one person brought up on charges for the...err..."cleansing".
Click to expand...
It's a tough decision to make, to use violence against violence.
I don't think any decent person enjoys it, but sometimes, there's no other alternative.
 
C

Chip00

Guest
cobraboy said:
"Vigilanteism" is a decidedly local/Dominican issue. Expats getting involved would be a really, really, really bad idea.

Nobody likes an "outsider" coming in and telling folks what to do or how bad things are.
Click to expand...

No offense but why would the people here consider foreigners that live here respectibly "outsiders"?

I understand that some in the population would do that (as seen in the US) but not all. Beside most of these people that live here do so full time if I understand correctly.

Finally, my neighbors invite me all the time to get involved with the "junta de vecinos" so I'm sure that all Dominicans don't see all of us gringos as "outsiders". We may occasionally (or often) mangle the beautiful Spanish language and dress oddly but nonetheless we live here and many Dominicans will respect that - at least from my experience.
 
C

Chip00

Guest
Rocky said:
It's a tough decision to make, to use violence against violence.
I don't think any decent person enjoys it, but sometimes, there's no other alternative.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it necessarily is violence against violence should or is planned to be the modus operandi but the mere presence of armed "vecinos" patrolling the streets should cause these bozo ladrones to look for an easier target - much the same way they don't joder with the businesses that have guachimanes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom