Codetel - incompetence or something more sinister?

C

Chip00

Guest
After thinking about the way Codetel/Verizon has treated me it leaves me wondering if all of their incompetence is just that or something more sinister.

For example last year when we bought a house I decided to cancel my existing service with Codetel at our apartment which was through my cunada then petitioning a new phone line to the house through a neighbor. I was already well versed in Verizon's laugable incompetence at making anything easy for the consumer and therefore figured it would be easier to cancel the existing service as opposed to transfering it. This decision was based on the totaly illogical, assinine policy requiring that no cancellations or transfers can be done until the final bill is received. However, during that time they would continue to bill me for the phone and internet sdervice which was more than RD3000 at the time.

Anyway I finally received the bill for May on July 11 - better late than never and we cancelled the service via a telephone call. I repeatedly called Verizon for at least a couple of months to make sure that they sent the bill and as usual they said it could take some time and all the usual mierda.

To continue, my cunuda receives a call last week from Codetel saying that she owned RD17k and of course she was pretty upset. I immediately went to Codetel and of course the person that was helping me immediately assumed that was I was saying was false. I told her that we called in or around June to cancel the service and also said that currently I pay between RD5 and 6K for my service now and have never been late and besides that I am American and always pay my bills and furthermore that they would be talking to my lawyer because I wasn't going to pay one red cent for any service rendered afet we cancelled the service. Well, lo and behold as soon as I got finished telling her about my lawyer, she says "oh I see it now where you called on July 11". She didn't apologize for not believing me but said that somenoe from Codetel would be contacting me.

So finally, Codetel calls me this week and asks me my name and says thay are calling me about the the old phone line and then go on to tell me that I owe RD8k because we cancelled the service in November. I immediately responded that I wasn't going to pay one red cent and asked for her supervisers name in order that my Lawyer would be in contact with them. Whereupon she says "Oh I'm sorry, I see that you cancelled service last July therefore your account is at zero based on the credit that you payed." I said "thank you" and hung up the phone thinking the usual thoughts about the UTTER incompetence of Codetel.

It got me thinking, maybe they do this for a reason? Why would one have to wait until their final bill is received before one can cancel service. Where else in the modern world do they require that? It isn't fair because during that time one is continuing to be billed for the basic services. Also, why did the Codetel person who called me immediately change her tune when I told her that they would be dealing with my lawyer? Imean, how could she call me and tell me that I owed all of this money after verifying my account and then immediately changing her tune and saying that my balance was at zero?

I am now wondering if what I assumed to be plain gross incompetence and negligence is maybe a sinster plan to defraud the consumer. BTW I am not nor have ever been a "conspiracy theorist" but this is got me thinking, hmm......
 

SKY

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Apr 11, 2004
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You are not finished with them yet, you will still get billed. Mark my words.
 

Mirador

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Apr 15, 2004
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Incompetence!!! The owner of Codetel, Mr Slim, made a big fat US$19 billion last year (after taxes or in spite of them), placing him the second richest man in the world (after Guillermito Puertas ;-)
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
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Shouldn't that be "Portones"? :D

It does look as if they try it on but don't press it too far if the customer is on the ball. For each one who is, there might be several who let them get away with it. The question is, at what level? Is this opportunistic fraud by the front of house employee or institutionalised? We wonder sometimes how much they must get just out of overcharging each customer by a few pesos, which no-one makes a fuss about. With several million customers it all adds up.
 

joseinoa

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Jan 20, 2005
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a while back

Incompetence!!! The owner of Codetel, Mr Slim, made a big fat US$19 billion last year (after taxes or in spite of them), placing him the second richest man in the world (after Guillermito Puertas ;-)

speaking of Mr. Slim Helu a few weeks ago there was a thread discussing this very same type of topic about how ubsurd it is what codetel charges and what we actually get from them for their prices. some people on dr1 actually DEFENDED his business practices. they said how hes here to make money, its a business yadayadayada. i dont care if hes here to do business or not. what codetel does is illegal in many countries. i guarantee you if he was doing this in the states he would get sued on a daily basis. thats why CompUSA is going out of business(which he own BTW) soon because they treat their customers like garbage, trust me i know, i worked for them for 4 years, the stuff that goes on behind closed doors is just horrible.
 

Rick Snyder

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Nov 19, 2003
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Chiri,
Your observations and theory make a lot of sense but in the realm of doing business here I see the same in other entities here be it the cable company or INAPA and even the little local stores.

In a country that does most of it's buiness with cash and whereas the legal tender consists of the 1, 5, 10, 25 and 50 centavo pieces I find it strange that none of those small currencies are available even though they are manufactured and are in existence. Couple that with the fact that due to taxes added on, the final bill for anything will be not of an even amount of pesos but rather with centavos as the final sum. The ability to carge 22 pesos for an item or service that totals 21.62 automatically provides the business owner with a 38 centavo profit on the transaction. Multiply that by the number of clients that any particular business has and the profits can be quite tremendous be it daily, weekly, monthly or yearly.

Talking of conspiracy theories I think it strange that the government has mentioned a number of times in the past that they have sufficient small denomination coins in storage and all an entity has to do is ask for them but none of the local banks or business have them. In the meantime the government continues to collect their taxes. Who continues to end up being the loser in this setup?

Rick
 

NotLurking

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Jul 21, 2003
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...The ability to carge 22 pesos for an item or service that totals 21.62 automatically provides the business owner with a 38 centavo profit on the transaction. Multiply that by the number of clients that any particular business has and the profits can be quite tremendous be it daily, weekly, monthly or yearly.

Rick, the above comment is inaccurate! Yes, it is true that if the total 'centavos' portion of your bill is above 0.51 it is rounded up to the next whole peso. However if the 'centavos' portion of the bill is equal or less than 0.50 it will be rounded down to the next peso.

Ex.
RD$10.51 = RD$11.00
RD$10.50 = RD$10.00

You can check this in El National, La Sirena, Super Pola, Jumbo, Hache, Cuesta, American por Departamentos, Pollo Victorina, KFC, ect...

If you let yourself be ripped off that is your problem. Also, the probability of the 'centavo' portion of the bill being in your favor is higher by 1%. That is, 51% of the time the centavo portion will favor you as oppose to 49% of the time for the merchant. So, your odds are better by 1%!!!

NotLurking
 

Rick Snyder

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Nov 19, 2003
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Some people never learn. Excuse me board members and particularly the OP as I know this is off subject but as my quote was used and the post is addressed to me I feel the ?need for speed?!

The statement, ?The ability to charge 22 pesos for an item or service that totals 21.62 automatically provides the business owner with a 38 centavo profit on the transaction. Multiply that by the number of clients that any particular business has and the profits can be quite tremendous be it daily, weekly, monthly or yearly?, is not ?inaccurate?. Unless we went to different high schools together charging 22 pesos for an item that costs 21.62 does in fact equal a 38 centavo profit for the business, wait ????.. (22 (???) minus 21.62 (???) equals ?(??) yup a 38 centavo profit to the business and a 38 centavo lose to the buyer. Now if you multiply this procedure by the number of clients that do business at an establishment and it even happens ?sometimes? will in fact provide a sizable profit to the business over a length of time. If we use your hypothesis then the business is going to win 49% of the time (PROFIT?????).

?If you let yourself be ripped off that is your problem? is a true statement and because we went to different high schools together and I know how to add and subtract then I don?t ever get ripped off except for that 49% of the time you pointed out. As we and every other person here gets ?ripped off? equally then that makes everything concerning the centavos, or lack thereof, totally acceptable, is that correct???????


Now, I can state for a fact that the statement, ?However if the 'centavos' portion of the bill is equal or less than 0.50 it will be rounded down to the next peso? is ?inaccurate? in that I have seen cases where this self imposed rule is not always followed and I have seen this failure to follow proper procedure done in two of the establishments you reference.

So in closing we can all feel happy knowing we stand a 49% chance of getting ripped off rather then a 51% chance.

Is it only me that finds fault in this logic?????????????

Rick

And all for the lack of centavos

Edited to add;
Usually when I add my comments to a thread it relates to how things affect the average Dominican and has very little to do with myself or other ex-pats. We are usually grown and possess enough intelligence to fend for ourselves. In my above post I asked who suffers from this issue of not having centavos in circulation? If you answer that question truthfully there will be no need to attack me.
 
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globalmike295

On Vacation
Jul 11, 2006
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You are not finished with them yet, you will still get billed. Mark my words.

I was charged $1500 for a months worth of service on a business plan. And yes they tried to continue the billing practice

Just tell them your plane leaves tomorrow.....
 

NotLurking

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Jul 21, 2003
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Some people never learn. Excuse me board members and particularly the OP as I know this is off subject but as my quote was used and the post is addressed to me I feel the ?need for speed?!
Yes some people NEVER learn! You fit just nicely in that group!

The statement, ?The ability to charge 22 pesos for an item or service that totals 21.62 automatically provides the business owner with a 38 centavo profit on the transaction. Multiply that by the number of clients that any particular business has and the profits can be quite tremendous be it daily, weekly, monthly or yearly?, is not ?inaccurate?.
Again, this statement is inaccurate and misleading!!!

All factors being equal the probability that the merchant makes a profit using this rule is 0. Why you ask? Let me explain it to you like you are a 5 year old. If 49% of the times the merchant gets to keep the 0.49 centavos and 51% the merchant has to pay out the 0.51 centavos. HE WILL NOT MAKE A PROFIT AS YOU CLAIM.

All factors being equal and accounting for average luck, the probability (usually denoted (p)) in all cases is 0.5 or 1/2 or 50%. (You did study probability in school, right?) Since the rule favors the costumer by 1% the merchant is at a disadvantage. Of course you have to defend your RIGHT in the event the merchant does not comply with the rule. Failure on your part to have the rule enforced is no excuse!!!

Here is 4th grade math to prove my argument. If 1000 transactions are made in a day by the merchant, using average luck, the probability that 'centavos' is:
>0.50 = 50% of the times
<0.50 = 50% of the times

Note the rule nor average probability FAVOR the merchant as you originally implied!!!

Now, using average probability and applying the current rule and assuming all transaction in either group to be right at the trigger point (boundary) of the group:
1000 * 49% = 490 transaction >= 0.51 and
1000 * 51% = 510 transaction <= 0.50

Using REAL RD$ that would be

490 * 0.49 = RD$245 The merchant take in
510 * 0.51 = RD$260.10 The merchant pays clients

+245.00
-260.10
=-6.10
Or a pay out by the merchant of RD$6.10 obviously we went to different schools because a RD$ -6.10 is not my idea of profit!!!


PS Why did you take it personal I was not attacking YOU but I was attacking your misleading statement.

NotLurking
 

Rick Snyder

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Nov 19, 2003
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Just what we need another Nal's clone. Can't see the forest for the trees!!

I'm out-of-here. Sorry for the side tracking.
 

globalmike295

On Vacation
Jul 11, 2006
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Math and stat's is why we are all here

The best value is always the question

So who is going to say I am wrong ?
 
May 5, 2007
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Anal V. Anal

Why do the ones in great need of validation continue to say goodbye? Leave already, we don't need your drama

Ooops, answered my own question

Whoever provided that link to the "I can't attend because...." from Nalwahl, thank you, the excuses and continues attempt at scrambling were priceless, now Rick has been out "worded"

Any bets on him truly being "out of here?"

I have been reading for along time and that episode (NalOWal) along with this thread finally convinced me that I am no dumber than the others that post here :paranoid:
 

mountainfrog

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Dec 8, 2003
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Yes some people NEVER learn! You fit just nicely in that group!


Again, this statement is inaccurate and misleading!!!

All factors being equal the probability that the merchant makes a profit using this rule is 0. Why you ask? Let me explain it to you like you are a 5 year old. If 49% of the times the merchant gets to keep the 0.49 centavos and 51% the merchant has to pay out the 0.51 centavos. HE WILL NOT MAKE A PROFIT AS YOU CLAIM.

All factors being equal and accounting for average luck, the probability (usually denoted (p)) in all cases is 0.5 or 1/2 or 50%. (You did study probability in school, right?) Since the rule favors the costumer by 1% the merchant is at a disadvantage. Of course you have to defend your RIGHT in the event the merchant does not comply with the rule. Failure on your part to have the rule enforced is no excuse!!!

Here is 4th grade math to prove my argument. If 1000 transactions are made in a day by the merchant, using average luck, the probability that 'centavos' is:
>0.50 = 50% of the times
<0.50 = 50% of the times

Note the rule nor average probability FAVOR the merchant as you originally implied!!!

Now, using average probability and applying the current rule and assuming all transaction in either group to be right at the trigger point (boundary) of the group:
1000 * 49% = 490 transaction >= 0.51 and
1000 * 51% = 510 transaction <= 0.50

Using REAL RD$ that would be

490 * 0.49 = RD$245 The merchant take in
510 * 0.51 = RD$260.10 The merchant pays clients

+245.00
-260.10
=-6.10
Or a pay out by the merchant of RD$6.10 obviously we went to different schools because a RD$ -6.10 is not my idea of profit!!!


PS Why did you take it personal I was not attacking YOU but I was attacking your misleading statement.

NotLurking

Fine piece of thinking.

Yet, doesn't apply here (in paradise).
(Who can calculate anyway?
+245.00
-260.10
=-6.10 ) :laugh:

Take all the sweets that you're given instead of allegedly lacking peso coins and put them in your mouth.... :pirate:
:lick:

mountainfrog
 
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G

gary short

Guest
Close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.....ribbit
 

NotLurking

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Fine piece of thinking.

Yet, doesn't apply here (in paradise).
(Who can calculate anyway?
+245.00
-260.10
=-6.10 ) :laugh:

Take all the sweets that you're given instead of allegedly lacking peso coins and put them in your mouth.... :pirate:
:lick:

mountainfrog

LOL It was my bad I did make an arithmetic mistake at the end but could not edit it by the time I had noticed it...HEHEHE

It should've been:

+245.00
-260.10
= -15.10

Nice moutainfrog!!! :bunny: :bunny: ;)

NotLurking...
 

SantiagoDR

The "REAL" SantiagoDR
Jan 12, 2006
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Yes, it is true that if the total 'centavos' portion of your bill is above 0.51 it is rounded up to the next whole peso. However if the 'centavos' portion of the bill is equal or less than 0.50 it will be rounded down to the next peso.

Ex.
RD$10.51 = RD$11.00
RD$10.50 = RD$10.00

You can check this in El National, La Sirena, Super Pola, Jumbo, Hache, Cuesta, American por Departamentos, Pollo Victorina, KFC, ect...

Best leave Super Pola in Santiago out of that statement........

The cashiers will try to take that extra peso almost everytime. They focus on the whole pesos when giving you change, but go to the next peso when telling you how much you owe. I had a big argument one time with the cashier, she refused to give me the peso, even when I showed her her error.

I got my peso!!!!

They attempt do that just about everyday to me there.