Trashed Again

BIZC8

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Dec 21, 2006
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Just read an article on today's Dominican Today where our tolerance to take criticism is once again put to the test. Now, let me set a precedent here and state for the record, that I too am Dominican. I'm just as proud of my heritage as any islander Dominican, although I live abroad.

However, we can't be foolishly oblivious to the fact that we have shortcomings. Just as many other societies have theirs in their areas, we have ours and the most intelligent thing we as nation heading towards becoming fully globalized can do is to acknowledge those shortcomings so they can be properly addressed, corrected, eliminated, rectified whatever it takes to get us to the 'next level'. There's an embedded pattern of behavior in our society that we must shake off ourselves, especially the next generation of Dominicans - our children. We cannot go on living like a people without order in a complete disregard for law which does nothing but seal our path to complete self-destruction.

The opinion expressed by the exiting German ambassador have only but been repeated time and time again by other foreign dignitaries and rather than acknowledging that 'hey, indeed we do have a problem with this and that' we automatically put our guards up, become aggressively defensive and instead re-direct our frustration back to the critic in a futile attempt to justify our bad behavior. We're on a path to becoming a much more industrialized nation with a very promising future, but before we can get there many, many underlying issues need to be addressed and certainly one of them is our civic manners.

I saw a post somewhere on this forum where someone was appauled at the way foreigners throw trash out their car windows and who can blame them? We're the first ones to do it! WE MUST SET THE EXAMPLE. Forget about what they do or don't do back in their home countries. While in our country they must abide by our laws, and the laws are there; but when society in general shows complete and total disregard for those laws, what do you think tourists/visitors are going to do? They're going to follow in our own trend. So, paisanos, don't kid yourselves. We have problems that need to be corrected and rather than focusing on who they come from, focus on getting them resolved. The issue is not who they come from, but the fact that they exist. Focusing on who the criticism comes from is simply a diversion to the real problem at hand. It is anybody's right to voice their opinion just as the French, Spanish, US and German ambassadors have done.

It is these patterns of overly relaxed behavior, lack of commitment, seriousness, and consideration for each other that is bringing discredit to our country and us as a people. Unfortunately, we might not care to do something about it until it starts to hit our pockets through a decaying tourism.

There. I've vented my frustration. Thank you very much.
 
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Chip00

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You're right, Dominicans, especially the elite and those in politics don't take to criticism well. IMO part of it is due to wanting to protect the status que - ie they keep on raking in the big bucks.

Also would be the peculiar Dominican disinterest in accountablity and transparency.

Finally and maybe the most important dynamic would be the rampant counter intuitive thought process even among supposed learned people that tells one to do the exact opposite of what should really be done in order to effect the desired result. Example, putting gasoline on sever burns, don't drink water when one is hot. I'm not sure if the politicians and such think in this manner or just take advantage of the common people when they propose outlandish policies that are failures even before the are implemented. However, enough people don't seem to question them and in fact lap them up - it's somehow if as if the more the idea is crazier and stupider the more chance is that it will be accepted! It's like the people are saying, "well as long as the idea or policy seems very complicated and the intuitive result of the idea is the EXACT opposite what we want to happen, well I'm for it because it is got to be good! It's as if there is an attitude among the people that if they can't understand it it has to be good.

This type of dynamic can only be changed by education and honest politicians who have common sensical, acountable and transparent policies who gain the respect of the people by their apparent hard work and effort for La Patria. Until someone comes along with ideas as such I don't know when we can ever expect real change for the better here.
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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Anytime an ambassador is about to leave, they begin to tell it like it is!!
This happened with Hertell, and with USAID director Brinneman. Nobody likes to be told the naked truth.
Sh!t, the German ambassador was just telling it like anyone of us can see. And he is talking major bucks$$$$ !!! A quarter of a million tourists is no laughing matter.
And who amongst us that live here have not experienced just what he described?? anyone who has ever traveled between Santo Domingo and the Cibao Valley has seen just this in the area around La Cumbre or Bonao. And the roadside is filled with trash. The areas around Boca Chica and Juan dolio are the same. Find me any roadway that is not fenced in with trash.
One of the oddest places I have ever seen was near Guayubin!!

And when this is mentioned or when you call a person's attention to this, the answer is always: "Estoy en mi pa?s!" or "Este es mi pa?s" . As if it was a privilege to be a pig in your own backyard....

HB
 
Sep 19, 2005
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well Luis , you talk about the trip from Santo Domingo to the Ciao Valley....well i took that trip once and I say dozen and dozens of gilled garbage bags lining the road. Itw as obvious someone had dont a major litter removal project . I see that many times in america, where probably mostly volunteers have walked the roadsie and collected the garbage and left it for the town to come by and pick up.

thats at least a sign that they want to address the issue....you cant talk about it the garbage problem while it lays every where...

have a clean up effort, THEN you can complain when people start to soil it again...if you clean it up several times a little guilt will start to settle in on those who live there.....it is like a jump start....hey look its clean and it looks nice...maybe Ill just keep this bottle till i get home.

bob
 
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Chip00

Guest
well Luis , you talk about the trip from Santo Domingo to the Ciao Valley....well i took that trip once and I say dozen and dozens of gilled garbage bags lining the road. Itw as obvious someone had dont a major litter removal project . I see that many times in america, where probably mostly volunteers have walked the roadsie and collected the garbage and left it for the town to come by and pick up.

thats at least a sign that they want to address the issue....you cant talk about it the garbage problem while it lays every where...

have a clean up effort, THEN you can complain when people start to soil it again...if you clean it up several times a little guilt will start to settle in on those who live there.....it is like a jump start....hey look its clean and it looks nice...maybe Ill just keep this bottle till i get home.

bob

Bob buddy I wish you were right but man I think some people here just won't ever get it here.

I paid our houskeeper to clean up around where they live as it was pretty disgusting, even per Dominican standards - I passed by to look at my "project" after she said she paid some boys to do it but there wasn't a whole lot of difference. No doubt it has already "returned" to it's normal state.

Also, where she lives there are a whole bunch of houses clumped together, with no water, sewer or electricity on 5 min. from my house and thay just throw the trash barely a stones throw from the houses if that. More often than not it looks like they just drop it on the ground. It really smells bad. These people aren't going to feel guilty because they don't notice it and certainly don't think it is wrong in any way shape or form to just drop the trash on the ground in the most convenient spot for them.
 

BIZC8

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Dec 21, 2006
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These people aren't going to feel guilty because they don't notice it and certainly don't think it is wrong in any way shape or form to just drop the trash on the ground in the most convenient spot for them.

I'm sorry. I just don't seem to see the convenience of having trash dumped all around your dwelling. It really truly is beyond all comprehension. And you know, it doesn't feel good to put my own people's dirty clothes out in the open like this, but unless it is told nothing's going to be done about it.

Is it really all about money? Is money the reason trash doesn't just get picked up and disposed of properly where it's supposed to? Personally, I think it's a combination of that and lack of civic duty. A radical change in attitude needs to take place and you know what, so what if it comes from a foreigner to sort of lead them by the hand and show them/us that hey, look.. this is what you do and this is how you do it. The way I see it, there's no room for pride here. What pride is there in living surrounded by garbage any ol' ways?

If anyone wants to start or would like support in starting a project similar to "Barrio Seguro" called "Barrio Limpio" - I'm game!

There's no reason to live in filth just because you're poor. It's just no excuse.
 
Sep 19, 2005
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I know the trash issue is just ONE of the points the departing germ ambassador spoke of. But since very recently we had a highly active thread going on just that subject, it is relavant to keep the comments coming.

Know i dont pull any punches and id like to think I tell it like it is. I have a GF in the dr..and I am very close to her family. They do many things that I dont understand. and i really really think about it , and how they came to that way of thinking. They have a VERY VERY clean house..all tile throughout...newer applicances... they have a cement driveway...the one side yard is all gravel, the front yard is grass, and the back is dirt. It is all fenced in with barbed wire...they have chickens and roosters.

it is a very clean place all stuccoed and painted, but They just drop what ever they have when they are outside, right where they stand...

But you know EVERY day the mother goes around cleaning up all the leaves that fell, all the wrappers someone threw down and the orange peels ect ect, around the whole yard. I think...why dont they put just a little effort into carrying it to the garbage to save the mother the work...heck the mother does the same thing!!!

it seems just to be the way they grew up...

it is NOT a measure of the cleanliness of the person....it is just the lackadasial attitude.....you have this pefect nice little yard, and on one side of the fence the debris is thrown many times...sometimes it is burned...

the dog comes out of the muddy back yard and walks past the mother into the house...she looks and complains out loud...but does nothing to STOP the dog where she sees it....so it walks all through the house until someone finally shoos the dog out....but now instead of 2 minutes mopping the entry way, THE WOMAN that let the dog walk by now has to mop the whole house...it is just the non chalant attitude.

My GF gives that dog a bath three or four times a week, and usually it isnt allowed out of the yard, or into the back when it rains.

The mother does laundry every other day!!!!

I put my plate down on the floor when i was finnished one day to let my Gfs dog lick it clean...the mother went ballistic...that was a HUGE NO NO........I said hey...the dishes get washed!!!!

but she thought nothing of feeding the dog a scrap or two while we were still eating...so the dog learns to beg....

they have certain conditions that have been ingrained over the years....

and it doesnt always match those we were raised by.

Something I think has to be taken into consideration when we compare cultures.

bob
 
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Sep 19, 2005
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GF yes, dog no!

m'frog

you can talk about YOUR GF like that ..dont insinuate that about mine!!!

as far as the dog is concerned...are you saying that a dog licking a plate clean is bad?

I guess you think a dog licking your kids or your face is ok...when they lick their own behind only 5 minutes before?

a plate sitting in the sink for a day is way worse than a dogs tounge...I THINK

and they both get washed afterwards

bob
 

miguel

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Jul 2, 2003
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Dime otra vez.......

as far as the dog is concerned...are you saying that a dog licking a plate clean is bad?

I guess you think a dog licking your kids or your face is ok...when they lick their own behind only 5 minutes before?

a plate sitting in the sink for a day is way worse than a dogs tounge...I THINK

and they both get washed afterwards

bob
Maybe it's because I don't like dogs, but if I ever visit a home and I see a person letting his/her dog lick the plate, I would NEVER, EEEEEEVER eat at that house for the rest of my natural life!!.

I know SOME people love their dogs but I also know dogs like to sniff other dog's butts and they smell EVERYTHING, including SCHITT!!!.

YUCK!!.

Well, "to each.......".
 

mountainfrog

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GF and Dog

you can talk about YOUR GF like that ...
I didn't and I won't.

...are you saying that a dog licking a plate clean is bad?
Why should the dog be bad?
Letting the dog do it, however, is thoughtless and stupid.


...I guess you think a dog licking your kids or your face is ok...
Wrong guess.

... a plate sitting in the sink for a day is way worse than a dogs tounge...I THINK
Wrong thought.
BTW, we wash up (BE) after our meals...

mountainfrog
 
Sep 19, 2005
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other than MF's foray into making remarks about my GF that to me are out of line.

I think this just shows that when you are judging people it is all relavant. What is seemingly totally acceptable to one is off the wall to another. same goes for the situation in the DR, especially how people view the litter and for that matter all garbage in general. You can have 10,000 super clean people( I know they are all miguels friends) who no one can besmudge, but that dont put a dent in the DR 's reputation for how it treats ITSELF.

I dont have a problem letting the dog lick my plate after a meal. Most times Ill scrap all the leftover onto one plate and give it to the dogs. I have a dishwasher that using almost boiling water to wash the dishes...nothing from the dog is being left on the plate.

But if anyone wants to not come to my house for that reason...Ill not get mad at them.

I am a single guy at my house these last few years and i leave pots and or plates in the sink sometimes over night. I am SURE that millions of households do it...at least I dont wash them will luke warm or worse yet cold water, them think they are clean.
in that case I can UNDERSTAND the worry....

but I dont want to try and convince you guys are wrong..because you are not...you just have your ultra view.

MF and miguel...do you have anything else to say about the ambassadors remarks?

bob
 

mountainfrog

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Boiling Water

other than MF's foray into making remarks about my GF that to me are out of line.
Please quote my 'out-of-line-remarks' about your GF.

...I have a dishwasher that using almost boiling water to wash the dishes...
Interesting.
Which part of the DR do you live in?

MF ...do you have anything else to say about the ambassadors remarks?..
I second most of them.

m'frog
 

bob saunders

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"I put my plate down on the floor when i was finnished one day to let my Gfs dog lick it clean...the mother went ballistic...that was a HUGE NO NO........I said hey...the dishes get washed!!!!"

I think this is a Dominican thing. My wife also goes ballistic if I let the cat or dog lick a plate. I've been in some Dominican towns or neighbourhoods that are very clean and neat, but that certainly is the exception. I know that all the garbage is a big turn off for many Canadians, except maybe those from Toronto.
 
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Chip00

Guest
I'm sorry. I just don't seem to see the convenience of having trash dumped all around your dwelling. It really truly is beyond all comprehension. And you know, it doesn't feel good to put my own people's dirty clothes out in the open like this, but unless it is told nothing's going to be done about it.

Is it really all about money? Is money the reason trash doesn't just get picked up and disposed of properly where it's supposed to? Personally, I think it's a combination of that and lack of civic duty. A radical change in attitude needs to take place and you know what, so what if it comes from a foreigner to sort of lead them by the hand and show them/us that hey, look.. this is what you do and this is how you do it. The way I see it, there's no room for pride here. What pride is there in living surrounded by garbage any ol' ways?

If anyone wants to start or would like support in starting a project similar to "Barrio Seguro" called "Barrio Limpio" - I'm game!

There's no reason to live in filth just because you're poor. It's just no excuse.


Biz - I agree about many things but the people are really ignorant - it just doesn't cross there mind that it is bad.

As far as a change here for the good and I honestly feel the best chance we have for that is to get the Dominicans raised in the US to come back and take a real pride and interest in the future of La Patria. In fact, I plan on getting involved one day when I'm a citizen here as well and have paid of the house and put some money in the bank for the wife and kids - that way if I get one in the back of the head for making some blood sucking, sin verguenza co?o del diablo prive en politico pajarito mad enough to put one in the back of my head at least the family will be taken care of.

IMO opinion a new party would need to be created with totally different ideas that speak in simple terms to the people so they can understand the processes and benefits and propose fiscal responsibility and common sensical policies.
 
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Chip00

Guest
Hey Froggie, am I the only one who gets what you said, which had NOTHING to do with his girlfriend?.

Geeezzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

What???!!! This thread is about trash not about las novias a uno!!!!!!!


FYI for those not in the know - Bob's gf is as sweet as she is pretty.

Back on topic pleeeeease.
 

mountainfrog

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Reading and Writing

Hey Froggie, am I the only one who gets what you said, which had NOTHING to do with his girlfriend?

Let's wait for the quote of the remarks in question.

Then one will see whether Sr. Bob's ability to read the black symbols or rather between the lines is more developped.
Both features are almost equally important... ;)

m'frog
 

miguel

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Jul 2, 2003
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De donde salio este?.....

What???!!! This thread is about trash not about las novias a uno!!!!!!!


FYI for those not in the know - Bob's gf is as sweet as she is pretty.

Back on topic pleeeeease.
Chip00, have you read the last few posts on this thread?.

I know this great thread is not about "las novias de uno" (o dos, o tres) and that was exactly my point!.

Read between the line. I was trying to let Bob know Froggie was not talking about his novia and also letting Froggie know I knew he didn't offend her because he was NOT talking about her.

Call it, "matando a dos aves con un solo tiro", comprendes?.

Btw: you can also say: "matando dos PAJAROS con un solo tiro" but I don't think those 2 would like ANYBODY calling them "PAJAROS", wahahahahahaha!!.

Now, let's go back to the trash topic:

El diablazoooo, que mucha basura hay en el basurero!!.