Laying a patio - Dominican style

Hey Matilda, don't look at it as an uneven patio. See it as an opportunity and open Juan Dolio's first skateboarding ramp.

That RD$40,000 price will look like a good deal in a few weeks

Maltida

Next time you need something done PLEASE send me a pm as I have a personal friend that will charge you dirt cheap Dominican prices to do whatever construction you need. Not only that he speaks creole which helps him find cheap labor. He works all over the DR and Haiti too.

Suerte

matilda, i simply love you.

How the hell do you remain so 'upbeat'?......I'd have murdered somebody by now! (and yes, I do know that's not a good idea....... )

Seriously, funds allowing of course, I'd have gone for the guy that looked like he could do the job properly because the cheapest option isn't always the best. I've learned with builders etc in the past that if you're happy with a job you soon forget what it cost, but if it's a shambles then you never forget how much money you wasted.!

I'm having the OPPOSITE problem right now with the "level" I am remodeling an apartment (in NY) and using (2) Dominican workers that have worked for me for some time. Rafael doesn't put the level down. Every single piece of stud he puts up, every piece of tile that is cemented, he uses a level.
So, I guess I shouldn't complain. Everything is square and straight, albeit taking a little more time.
john

NEVER Buy ALL Your Materials At Once!!!!!

Especially if it is a big job!
50 bags of cement??? "I" would have stolen at least 25 myself!!
Your questiion about the "price" of cement indicates that you don't know the "Cost-of-materials here. ANOTHER bad sign! "Cement" prices are pretty much the same,at any given time, at all suppliers. If you bought yours at a small "ferreteria" you probably paid more that the average cost. "Go Big",like a "BIG" distributer, when you buy building materials. The word is most likely "OUT" about you by now. You will never get a good price for any materials or work you need. They also know that you are "Easy"! Meaning you don't respond to theft.
Robert's comment is "Spot On"!
You should have called the police,thrown a "FIT",yelled at them,had the police take them to the station for questioning! When I first started working here 12 years ago I was supervising contruction of a large medical complex in Santo Domingo. I thought that I could "Catch More Flies With Honey Than I Could With Vineger"!... You know,like my mother taught me!!!
What a HUGE mistake!! Dominicans/Haitians of the type that do construction work,(Meaning absolutely no skills,or common sense!) Need to be treated like a "Mule"! You must hit them over the head to first get their attention,and then "whip" them to keep them focused,and out of your "garden"!!
I resently converted a "Carport" at my house into a bedroom. I was on them like "A Fly On $hit" the whole time. I got a "Guestimate" from the "Boss". Later,of course, he said that he had not included "some" of the materials,and needed to buy more. "Go Ahead"! I told him. Now here is the important part!!! Stay Ahead Of Your Contractor!!! Meaning that he has done more work than you have paid him for! Make him beg you for a few thousand pesos every Sat. afternoon to pay his workers! "OWE" him at least 20 to 30 percent of the total costs until the project is complete! This is a "Dance" between him and you! Problem is,he knows the "Steps",and you don't!!
Now remember those "materials" my guy forgot to buy?? I told him to "Go ahead and buy them"? I deducted the costs from the final payment!!! Should have heard him yell! He sounded like a wounded elephant! That was just his part of the "Dance"! I'm sure he had "padded" his estimate with enough "Extra" to screw me,and I screwed him by enough to save me! My part in this "Ballet"! We parted as friends each knowing/thinking that he had screwed the other!
By the way! Enjoy your "DANCE"! And "Good Luck!
Cris Colon CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCc

I have to admit, when I had 10 Haitians in my garden digging my pool I was making coffee and honeyed pancakes for the ones that arrived early every morning and giving them surplus avocados! However I wasn't employing them directly as they were working for the builder I had employed, so I guess that was okay..........I guessed from his face when he saw me making them breakfast one day that he wasn't impressed! They worked really hard and did a great job anyway! I can't be bothered with all the grief and haven't got a clue about building, so I get a price and builder who's work I'm happy with and let them sort it all out. Then, if the materials get stolen, that's their problem.

Some really good advice from CC about payments. There's a couple who've bought near me and they've employed builders to do some work on their house and paid them up front while in UK! Needless to say, the work's been at a standstill for months! Obviously they're not here to chase the work along and they've got no real leverage because they've already paid. They arrive this month and I feel sorry for them.

When you're old & grey, Matilda, you'll bless that little incline on the patio. It'll have been responsible for you getting healthy heart exercise each time you walk up it. A sort of DR treadmill.

On tools & supplies with legs: hide your own tools, wheelbarrow, even the dogs food bowls. Some workers mix things in the strangest places & you don't want the Great Dane's jaw permanently cemented, let alone other parts of his anatomy (from what we read elsewhere).

Had a chortle about calling the police........ No CCC I'm not knocking your sound advice.

Good thing you've got your voice back enough to yell at all & sundry..........

Do PM CHip00..he knows what he is talking about.

Do take a serious look at CrisColon's advice. He, too, had "been there and done that."

HB

I don't even know you and I love you!

While you're waiting for that next big adventure, how about writing a book about your experiences...... I'd buy it! I like the way you write, it always brings a smile to my face, even when it's about something that most people would cry about.........

Here's a question

A lot of the work I have done as a volunteer has been as a worker (equally unskilled, and a scrawny gringa to boot) on these construction sites. I worked with two Dominican "bosses" with very different approaches along with a North American gringo leader who knows everything about building. We have built playgrounds and homes (habitat style), and schoolrooms, stuff like that.

Part of our work there includes making and keeping relationships with the people we work with. I have seen two different DR ?bosses?. One was stern, like Chris described, one was laid back ?honey style?.

How do you balance the need to get the job done, and done right, with the need to be in relationship with the people you work with? It was hard for us to take the stern boss because he was so disrespectful to the Dominicans on the site and in the community. We had been working in the community for a long time and almost felt protective of them. We also seemed to run out of things all the time with stern boss, and would sit around waiting for him to get supplies. We had not had these problems before. Can you tell me what might have been going on behind the scenes or beyond our language level that would explain ?stern boss? a little better?

Dominicans Are Used To Be "Told What To Do!"

They are comfortable in that situation. They are not "self-motivated" so they need a "Jefe" to get things done. This culture is DIFFERENT! I don't use my "American Values" to pass judgement on "Their Ways". Works out better for everyone! No matter how long you stay here,if you were not "Born and Raised" a Dominican you will never totally "GET IT!" Lots of "Us" like to think that we do,but it just "Ain't So"!
Cris Colon

Chichiguita said:

A lot of the work I have done as a volunteer has been as a worker (equally unskilled, and a scrawny gringa to boot) on these construction sites. I worked with two Dominican "bosses" with very different approaches along with a North American gringo leader who knows everything about building. We have built playgrounds and homes (habitat style), and schoolrooms, stuff like that.

Part of our work there includes making and keeping relationships with the people we work with. I have seen two different DR ?bosses?. One was stern, like Chris described, one was laid back ?honey style?.

How do you balance the need to get the job done, and done right, with the need to be in relationship with the people you work with? It was hard for us to take the stern boss because he was so disrespectful to the Dominicans on the site and in the community. We had been working in the community for a long time and almost felt protective of them. We also seemed to run out of things all the time with stern boss, and would sit around waiting for him to get supplies. We had not had these problems before. Can you tell me what might have been going on behind the scenes or beyond our language level that would explain ?stern boss? a little better?

Click to expand...

From my experiences I have found the following:
1) Interview the person carefully. In my case they ALWAYS say "I can do it all" (I know plastering, sheetrock, painting). Some go so far as to say I know plumbing and some electrical.
Get very specfic with them to begin with. If you know how to sheetrock-do you know how to tape the seams and make it look professional or do you just k now how to place a piece of tape across the seam and then sand it all day? I know that this is a thing that is not done in the DR as you use CB so I am very wary when a Dominicans says he is good at this process. He has to give me his background.
"I do plumbing". Does that mean you can change a washer or you know about drains, venting, traps, steam valves, return lines? Well, I am sure you know the greater perchange of the answers.
2) Everyday we putline the day's work together. If my plan is too ambitous I expect him to tell me so and why.
I am in favor in discussing together what I expect so that at the end of the day there aren't too many surprises.
3) If I am leery of a man's skills at a certain task I will take more time with him to explain. I will ask "do you understand" in both Spanish and English.
4) I carry a book around make mark the start-up time and finish time of a day so there are no disputes Fri. nite.
5) Most important-you will gain his respect when you know what you are talking about. When he sees you know your stuff it elininates a lot of problems.
6) Don't be the first to complain and never throw a compliment. I give praise when the job was well done and I tell them when I think its crappy.
We recently did a job on an apt. reno. that my Dominican worker was so proud of he asked me to take a picture so that he could show his wife at home.
7) Be very clear about "money". What are you paying? When? Etc., and then hold to your word.
che mas...?
john

Chichiguita said:

A lot of the work I have done as a volunteer has been as a worker (equally unskilled, and a scrawny gringa to boot) on these construction sites. I worked with two Dominican "bosses" with very different approaches along with a North American gringo leader who knows everything about building. We have built playgrounds and homes (habitat style), and schoolrooms, stuff like that.

Part of our work there includes making and keeping relationships with the people we work with. I have seen two different DR ?bosses?. One was stern, like Chris described, one was laid back ?honey style?.

How do you balance the need to get the job done, and done right, with the need to be in relationship with the people you work with? It was hard for us to take the stern boss because he was so disrespectful to the Dominicans on the site and in the community. We had been working in the community for a long time and almost felt protective of them. We also seemed to run out of things all the time with stern boss, and would sit around waiting for him to get supplies. We had not had these problems before. Can you tell me what might have been going on behind the scenes or beyond our language level that would explain ?stern boss? a little better?

Click to expand...

With regard to your question who knows. The different type of management styles you described are at the polar extremes and are universal the world over. There are good managers with both type of styles. In fact you would be surprised to find out that a really good manager with the "honey style" can in fact be like the "hard ass" when need be. People doing menial labor type of stuff the world over typically need motivation to do things the right way the first time and within budget - this is a fact of life and I base this on my experience as a civil engineer having worked with many contractors.

Also, one of my good friends here in the DR is a construction mananger and definitely has the "honey style" but if he needs to warn somebody consistently to work and do things right it won't be long before he sends him packing.

In summary, what one sees here among day laborers and managers is nothing unique to the DR. Also, I personally prefer the "laid back" style, where one respects the workers as people but then again would have no problem correcting them or firing them if their performance is not up to par - there is a way to do this with out being demeaning for sure.

Great Input

This has been a great thread. It has shed some good light for me. I think I came into my experience pretty idealistic. Having the "honey boss" first made it more so. "Honey" had been a respected part of the community for many years and had helped many people. His wife taught at the free school and he pastored a small church that met in the community center. I think people just respected him and he knew how to talk to them. We always finished on time or ahead of schedule and often had Dominicans come an work with us for a while for free, just because of Alberto (honey).
"Stern" also grew up near the area and had gone from a shoe shine boy to an educated man. I think he always carried with him the insecurity of his upbringing and felt he had to proove himself. It was like he was afraid of being ripped off.
I think Stern has grown a little too since then.
Sadly, the experience has really turned off the gringo leader (the two of us co-led gringo volunteer groups for several years) and he feels his time of doing work in the DR is over. I copied this thread to him, hoping it might help.
Either way, I am grateful for the wealth of info on this site. lk