Illegal Dominicans in the US!

GringoCArlos

Retired Ussername
Jan 9, 2002
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Hillbilly, I would alter what you said by just a bit. From "if you go to the US" to "if you go to another country,..."

I personally think one problem is hypocrisy. For example, not to pick on or single out Criss Colon, but I think he is very typical of many Americans in his thinking -

QUOTE -

07 June 2007 11:25 am "DEATH PENALTY FOR ILLEGALS" -

THAT would fix the Problem ! CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC CCCC
-END QUOTE-----

and on another day -

QUOTE -

20 April 2007 11:26 am

"I Worked For The Dominican Government For 10 Years As An "Illegal"!!

They didn`t seem to mind a bit!
They did however deduct all payroll taxes!
Guess they use the US Military Policy "Don`t Ask, Don't Tell" !!!!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
---END QUOTE-----

Which is it to be? Do as I say, or do as I do???? The rules apply in both situations. The problem is that too many Americans (and Europeans, and whomever else) think in the same way - "I`m special, I'm an American(European, whtever) so the rules don't apply to me".

How many Americans here in the DR who have no residency, no Driver's license, etc think that it`s a scandal that there are so many illegal Dominicans in New York (and how many readers here on DR1 have illegal Dominicans working for them or with them in NY?)

Or else, "I'm helping these poor people with all of this money I`m spending in their poor country ! And I have 3 employees in Sosua (or Santo Domingo, or Puerto Plata, or wherever) who make their living maintaining my house and garden! Lucky poor people. They're lucky to have me here. I don't really need my Dominican residency anyway, and besides , there is always SUCH a line there!"

Guess what folks ! Most Illegals there DO pay all of the payroll taxes, and NO, they don't apply or receive a refund! If an illegal dominicano is making $18 grand a year in NYC - that`s $9 an hour for their work) - federal taxes paid in might be $500, NY State taxes another $500, SS taxes of $1375, and sales taxes paid, maybe $1125 and NYC taxes of another $200, what's that - $3700? Doesn`t look like chicken feed to me, it looks like a "tax rate " of 20.5% on someone making $18 grand a year in NYC! Kids and wife are back in the DR, so no schools getting used. Who's geting ripped off?

Avoiding paying in any withheld payroll taxes to the US government, or the state government, is the fastest way to the pokey for a business owner in America, using legal OR illegal workers.

So you say you have 12 million darn foreigners living in the US, millions more in Europe in various countries, stealing "your" jobs, stealing "your" tax dollars, using "your" public services without paying? (including an estimated 500,000 Dominicanos who are in the US illegally)

Well, it has been estimated that about 10 to 12 million American citizens have LEFT the U.S. Why don't you give my spot in the US to an illegal Dominican, because I am NEVER coming back ! Take a poll, and I'll bet that one-third or one-half of American citizens who are currently living outside of the US would say the same thing. Some of us left for a reason, and not because we didn`t have enough money to retire on "there".

There ! I?ve already fixed up to HALF of the problem you think you have. Got any more problems? (oh, and "QUOTE" - at least I HAVE a plan - you haven't proposed any solutions, have you? -END QUOTE--)
 

Lambada

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Mar 4, 2004
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Well done GringoCarlos for your timely reminder that foreigners (of whatever nationality) living in the DR should be abiding by DR rules (residency, driving licences etc). If they choose not to do so I believe they forfeit the right to pontificate about 'illegals' in other countries. Maybe we should start labelling those people not as expats but as illegals? To be honest I''ve never thought about 'illegals' in US or Europe as illegals: I always think of them as economic refugees............
 

juancarlos

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Sep 28, 2003
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Since I am a USA citizen living in the USA and see the situation here, I must say I agree with both Gringo Carlos and Lambada. I promise I will say no more on this subject
 

johne

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Jun 28, 2003
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How many are employee?

Interesting question you asked concerning " how many Americans are employing illegals?"
Let me tell you about a situation I am involved in right now concerning a young girl that is now going into her 4th month of overstaying her visa in NY.
She is employed by her prima in a beauty salon AND by her novio that is partner in a deli. The two businesses are side by side so it's easy to work the FOURTEEN hours a day that she is working. Sounds good right?
Well, the fact of the matter she is being exploited by two Dominicans that are legal and know the system. I calculated the other day that she is making $2.00 an hour at best. Imagine, by her own prima that 10 years ago was an illegal. She has no desire to leave the US but has reached out to me (thru another prima) as to how she can escape this situation.

As far as Americans hiring illegals, you are right that the fines and penalties are high and just not worth it to big business. Are they hired for day labor
and menial jobs such as dishwashing? Sure but is this a life? This type of employment is given out by very small operators and indivuals here in NY (I can't speak of California and agriculture since I don't know how the employers get away with that ) and it's just not a life.

So, "do as I..." is an interesting question and one that I am facing right now with this young lady.
JOHN
 

2LeftFeet

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Dec 1, 2006
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A couple of years ago PBS did a show on immigrants-- not sure if they were illegal or not. It was very interesting. They were from all different countries. Many of them believed that the US was paradise BEFORE they got here. They thought that the roads were paved with gold ( like my great grandmother did) and things were going to be easy.

After they arrived it was a different story. It was very difficult. Jobs with decent wages were hard to come by. The expectation to send money home was there. Their families back in their homelands felt that they were "rich" and and put a lot pressure on them to provide for them. The didn't want to let them down and their families would/didn't believe them anyway.

Many of the said that if they could do it over they wouldn't have come.

It's like the woman in the beauty salon. She's trapped and being exploited by her OWN people.

It's a lousy situation.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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Chris, I respect your position on threads being related to Dominicans, and not devolve into pro/anti US rants. I will not go there in this thread.

Any Immigration Law proposed in the US Congress certainly has significant impact on Dominicans. I don't have the figures in front of me, but my recollection is that Dominicans account for the 5th most Legal Immigrants to the US, along with India, China, Viet Nam and Mexico. I read an estimate that there may be as many as 500,000 illegal Dominicans in the US.

Those are large numbers.

So clearly, the Dominican Republic has a HUGE dog in the US Immigration Reform hunt.

In the bill that was just euthanized, one provision required illegals to go back to their country of origin and ask for legal status. I don't think for a nanosecond that would be possible or implemented. But hypothetically, if it COULD be enforced, consider the unbelievably large economic impact if: 1) the DR suddenly had 200,000-500,000 additional mouths to feed, and 2) the remittances of those 200,000-500,000 stopped. I don't even want to think about it. The country has a huge problem of more people than resources already.

And that is just ONE provision.

Consider that under current conditions it takes 8 years to being a non spousal/non young blood child applicant to the US from the DR (Alida will have waited for 8 years when she finally has her residency card in hand). The current waiting list exceeds 27,000, and thoise are just folks whose visas have been approved, and have to be processed by the SDQ Consulate. It takes a minimum of 2 years for those to be processed after approval. Now add 200,000-500,000 more into the mix. You get my drift.

There were many more provisions to the bill that would have materially affected Dominicans. I'm outlining just one.

I'm glad that thing got shot down. It was one of the WORSE pieces of legislations I have EVER seen. The President, House and Senate should be embarrased to present such a POS bill without allowing debate: the original plan-craft it away from public eyes, and sneak it through. I am happy the public was made aware of it by the "alternative media" and citizens petitioned their elected representatives to kill it. I know I did. Representative Democracy works in the US.

It is beyond rationality to think that 12,000,000-20,000,000 illegal aliens could possibly be identified and deported. And I won't even go into the lunacy of expecting them to come forward, plea a mea culpa, voluntarily go home and stand in a 15+ year line (in the DR) before they return.

The problem in the US was that the 1986 bill was never enforced. Why employers fill out an I-9 (proof of legal residency) for employees is beyond me. I still do for my employees, always have, but why? The number of employers who have been prosecuted since 1986 and before 9/11/2001, can be literally counted on one hand.

I am hearing the following from Americans: secure air-tight borders, build "The Wall", THEN let's talk about Amnesty.

I have no problem with Amnesty regardless of the country of origin. The US screwed up by not enforcine the 1986 Law. It's too late now to actually do anything about illegal immigrants. My country was build by immigrants. Heck, my ancestors came to America in the 1600's as indentured servants, and fought in the War of Succession, just like many, many immigrants came to the US legally and fought in WWII, Korea, Viet Nam and both Iraq wars. They are every bit American as I am. They came legally, played by the rules, and shed blood to defend their new country.

Most Americans just want to know WHO the immigrants are, and an assurance they are here to assimilate and not to do the country harm.
 

shinysam

New member
Apr 1, 2007
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I will never understand the US about immigration. On the one hand, it is one of the hardest country in the world because of considering sin documentos as criminals (as narcos or murderers). On the other hand, immigrants can live in the US without speaking english, authorities often provide official papers translated in spanish.
 

johne

Silver
Jun 28, 2003
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I will never understand the US about immigration. On the one hand, it is one of the hardest country in the world because of considering sin documentos as criminals (as narcos or murderers). On the other hand, immigrants can live in the US without speaking english, authorities often provide official papers translated in spanish.

Huh?? What am I missing here in order to understand this post?
JOHN
 

2LeftFeet

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Dec 1, 2006
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It's a complicated issue. I'm curious to know how many of the illegal people here in the US are employable. How many would be eligible to go to school and obtain higher education degrees or open a business?

How many of them would only be able to work as flower sellers or dishwashers or cab drivers.

IMHO I would rather have scientists or professionals than flower sellers.

A friend of mine taught ESL. So many of the students that she taught were/ are illiterate in their mother tongue. Then they try to learn English in the 7 grade. They can't speak or write Spanish properly. Trying to teach them English is a disaster!!!

What is going to happen to them? So many of them wind up dropping out of school and in jail-- and eventually on the next plane home.

They come for the better life and it's unattainable now. When our families came here-- they didn't need college degrees. They didn't have to speak English. People in my family never learned English. They stayed in the Italian neighborhood-- who cared.

I don't know if it's true in the DR but in some countries (mexico) you can for stay for extended periods but have to leave 2X a year. I know someone that owned property there.

What are the rules for getting a job and owning property there if you aren't a citizen? Can I show up and get one?
 

GringoCArlos

Retired Ussername
Jan 9, 2002
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2LeftFeet, YOU'VE GOT IT ! That`s the friggin problem in America. Everyone wants to be a scientist or a professional (or thinks they are, or else they have a "certificate" that SAYS they're a professional or certified "whatever"), and nobody wants to be a really GOOD flower seller or dishwasher or cabdriver! But you still have to have them too, doncha???

And the work is generally below what the uneducated US workers want to do - not enough status, even if it would lead to something more "important" later. Entonces - the unemployed **** and moan about "the illegals taking away our jobs", boo hoo hoo.

America is busy raising the next generation who will be even MORE miserable, because all the way through school, they are receiving trophies and awards for mediocre or poor performance. How come nobody ever tells some of these students "why don't you go find something you're good at, because at this, you stink!" ? Oh that`s right, NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND - they don't want to destroy their fragile little egos, instead of toughening them up for real life.

As for Mexico, guess what? Any one who must leave the country two times a year is most likely an ILLEGAL in Mexico. If they have the proper and legal residency, they do NOT have to leave the country, just like here in the DR - no exit fines or hassles. (I guess they just say that so that they look respectable to their circle of acquaintances, and not as the "wetback" they are in Mexico. And getting residency is not easy, but far less strenuous than the US. Anyone overstaying their tourist visa here in the DR is an ILLEGAL. Get real - it's the same damn thing, buddy!

Unlike property ownership in the DR, Mexico only allows foreigners to own property in certain restricted coastal zones. In the interior it is not allowed, which leads foreign buyers to "own" property in the name of a Mexican amigo.