Anti-Haitianismo y Anti-Dominicanismo

bigjuan163usmc

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May 18, 2007
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I just want to hear about both in general. I've investigated the Haitian massacre (for my DR history class) and supposedly, it was an agreement between Duvalier and Trujillo, whom were actually very good friends. My professor (at PUCMM) for Fundamentos de La Cultura Occidental (a world history class) told me that this was true. Has anyone else heard about this?

Also I want to know about Anti-Haitianismo and Anti-Dominicanismo in modern times, as well as past times. Thanks.

- Johnny
 
Sep 20, 2003
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1937 massacre

The massacre you are talking took place in 1937. Duvalier was an unknown doctor at that time. There were smaller mass killings that took place in until 1940, but in other regions of the country, and on a much smaller scale.

There are several different theories about what triggered the massacres. Robert Crassweller, a Trujillo biographer, had a rather far fetched explanation dealing with a spy ring. Some said it was a spontaneous event. Balaguer had his own version of events. Whatever.

There was no cooperation between Trujillo and the Haitian government to carry out the massacres. After the massacres took place, there was some extremely bizarre behavior on the part of the Haitian government attempting to downplay the killings(Trujillo had many top Haitian officials on his payroll). There was a vocal and outraged minority in the Haitian government, lead by the foreign minister, that called for an international investigation. That caused Trujillo some major problems and could have lead to his regime's collapse. But El Jefe weathered the storm.

Trujillo and Duvalier were never "friends". They did sign some agreements in the last couple of years of Trujillo's life, but it was a question of mutual survival. Both dictators were facing invasions by exile groups. General Espaillat wrote about their relationship in his book. Trujillo and Duvalier "needed each other".
 

Tordok

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Oct 6, 2003
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Aguacate...etc........
I suspect you misunderstood your professor but if your History profe argues otherwise on these matters, then I'm sure he'll hear privately from the likes of his colleague and outstanding DR1 contributor Hillbilly, who is a much more amiable fact-checker than myself.

For what is worth, I endorse Mr. Ogre's expalanatory post, which I summarize as:
1. In 1937 papa doc was not in power, therefore NO Duvalier-Trujillo conspirational alliance possible, thus none has been documented.
3. The hush money from DR to Haitian government AFTER the killings IS generally accepted as factual. Not so much an example of mutual respect, statesmanship and collaboration, but more like a murderous example of the kind of high-level bilateral corruption that deligitimizes ALL island governments before and since then.

On the general issue of so-called antihaitianismo in the DR context, this has been debated over and over on this forum. Many direct and indirect resources on this topic are available on the web. The open discussions here -and elsewhere, for that matter - inexorably uncover little new knowledge but lots of half-thruths, radicalized opinions, and plenty of poor taste.

You of course may proceed as you -or the moderators- may wish, but I'd first consider reading as much material on the actual facts on the matter as you can (there are plenty of good books in PUCMM's library), and then seek opinion and analysis on a thread or in conversation. Like in school, we must read first to learn about something that has piqued our curiosity, and later discuss to help deepen our understanding, clarify our doubts, reshape our insights, and expand our perspectives.


bonjour et tout va bien!

- Tordok

As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities. Voltaire
 

A.Hidalgo

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Apr 28, 2006
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You of course may proceed as you -or the moderators- may wish, but I'd first consider reading as much material on the actual facts on the matter as you can (there are plenty of good books in PUCMM's library), and then seek opinion and analysis on a thread or in conversation. Like in school, we must read first to learn about something that has piqued our curiosity, and later discuss to help deepen our understanding, clarify our doubts, reshape our insights, and expand our perspectives.


bonjour et tout va bien!

- Tordok

As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities. Voltaire


Priceless advice from a sage....imho:cheeky:
 

bigjuan163usmc

New member
May 18, 2007
191
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Aguacate...etc........
I suspect you misunderstood your professor but if your History profe argues otherwise on these matters, then I'm sure he'll hear privately from the likes of his colleague and outstanding DR1 contributor Hillbilly, who is a much more amiable fact-checker than myself.

You of course may proceed as you -or the moderators- may wish, but I'd first consider reading as much material on the actual facts on the matter as you can (there are plenty of good books in PUCMM's library), and then seek opinion and analysis on a thread or in conversation. Like in school, we must read first to learn about something that has piqued our curiosity, and later discuss to help deepen our understanding, clarify our doubts, reshape our insights, and expand our perspectives.

As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities. Voltaire

No, I'm pretty sure my profe said what he said, and I talked about it with several of my classmates as well (it was an open class discussion), but he did mention alot about the payments between the Dominican government and the Haitian government. I think maybe he meant the word "friends" in a different sense...like in a Mussolini and Hitler way, :ermm:

...I'm more interested in reading about anti-dominicanism than anti-haitianismo, because I already know alot about AH. I've frequently heard accusations of Haitan anti-dominicanismo and unfotunately I myself haven't been able to find any material on the subject. Any suggested readings would be appreciated, thanks.
 
Sep 20, 2003
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No, I'm pretty sure my profe said what he said, and I talked about it with several of my classmates as well (it was an open class discussion), but he did mention alot about the payments between the Dominican government and the Haitian government. I think maybe he meant the word "friends" in a different sense...like in a Mussolini and Hitler way, :ermm:

...I'm more interested in reading about anti-dominicanism than anti-haitianismo, because I already know alot about AH. I've frequently heard accusations of Haitan anti-dominicanismo and unfotunately I myself haven't been able to find any material on the subject. Any suggested readings would be appreciated, thanks.

Trujillo and Papa Doc were not really "friends" in any way. Trujillo used to allowed exiled Haitian army officers live in the DR and even put them on the payroll. Trujillo switched gears when he realized how badly things were unravelling around him. The agreements they signed were mutually beneficial.

What exactly do you know about anti-Haitiansmo? The events surrounding the 1937 massacres are rather complicated. As for anti-Dominicanismo, yes, it is definately a two way street.
 
Sep 20, 2003
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The only book I can think of that really talks about the Trujillo/Duvalier relationship is The Last Caesar by Arturo Espailliat. This particular book offers insights into their relationship that others do not(IMO).

It is true that Trujillo used to allow Haitian exiles into the DR during the first years of Papa Doc's rule. General Espailliat writes about a senior Haitian army officer that lived in fear of Duvalier's voodoo powers. It's all rather interesting stuff. Some of the things "Razor" writes the Haitians seem hard to believe. The book describes how and why Trujillo's attitude towards Duvalier changed. I suggest you read that book.
 

bigjuan163usmc

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May 18, 2007
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What exactly do you know about anti-Haitiansmo? The events surrounding the 1937 massacres are rather complicated. As for anti-Dominicanismo, yes, it is definately a two way street.

I'm not exactly an expert on the subject but I am more educated about it than most people, meaning I know that it is more than just a "Trujillo didn't like black people" kind of thing. Yes, the 1937 massacres are indeed complicated, so thats why I asked about it. I really don't want to delve too deeply in that subject however. I really am more interested in anti-Dominicanismo...how it is in Haiti and how it is in Puerto Rico (I've heard of anti-Dominicanismo towards Dominicans in PR whom arrive in yolas...and I've heard that during certain riots in Haiti, Dominicans were attacked ie. when Leonel Fernandez went to Haiti...)