Dominican wealth

Adrian Bye

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Jul 7, 2002
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Has anyone else found that "upper class" Dominicans sometimes have a wildly overinflated view of Dominican wealth on an international level?

Here's a great example from DR1 of what they believe, I have run into this frequently:

For the Dominican upper crust spending their weekends in their Miami vacation homes is commonplace. The Swiss Alps are full of Dominicans skiing. We are not all Julio Iglesias, but Julio Iglesias did not come to the Dominican Republic to rub shoulders with the Montecarlo set. He came here to rub shoulders with the Dominican set. We got plenty of them that can match wallets. You certainly don't know how much money flows in this little island.

You think Bill Clinton likes Punta Cana because he wants to see Germans and Italians? He comes here because we got people that can blow them away. Clinton did not have to spend a dime to stay here. Plus he left with his pockets full. He also wants to come back for more.

http://www.dr1.com/forums/81288-post16.html

Why do they believe this?

Adrian
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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I played 'guess the poster' and got it in one. :D

Although it is a feature of the island mentality to have an overinflated sense of the country's importance in relation to the wider scheme of things, to be fair I don't think this perception is unique to Dominicans. I've heard stuff like that from people in other places in Latin America and elsewhere.
 

jackieboo

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Mar 18, 2006
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Latin American culture has and continues to be a class oriented society where what you do and who you know is much more important than the balance of your bank account.

I?ve had the experience of meeting many ?rich? Dominicans and my experience is that these individuals don?t consider the bulk of the Dominican population to be their equals.

I?ll give you an example. One night I was Ocean World Casino playing black jack and sitting next to me was a stunning blond Dominican woman. After a few hands I struck up a conversation with her. She was from Santo Domingo and had very few positive things to say about her fellow countrymen. Her attitude was one that the majority of her countrymen are poor because they?re lazy. In her mind the poorest of the poor have the same opportunity she had.

The OP?s quote is an example of this kind of Beaujolais attitude towards the lower classes. In this persons mind the exploitation of the poor in their country is an example of why they are equal or superior to the middle class of America.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Latin American culture has and continues to be a class oriented society where what you do and who you know is much more important than the balance of your bank account.

I?ve had the experience of meeting many ?rich? Dominicans and my experience is that these individuals don?t consider the bulk of the Dominican population to be their equals.

I?ll give you an example. One night I was Ocean World Casino playing black jack and sitting next to me was a stunning blond Dominican woman. After a few hands I struck up a conversation with her. She was from Santo Domingo and had very few positive things to say about her fellow countrymen. Her attitude was one that the majority of her countrymen are poor because they?re lazy. In her mind the poorest of the poor have the same opportunity she had.
Well, the poor do share in the responsibility department. Plenty of Dominicans of poor backgrounds are living in the U.S. and a good number of them are wasting time, despite all the opportunities available to them.

Also, many Dominicans of humble origins have moved up through determination, hard work, and perseverance. Look at the owners of Adrian Tropical in Santo Domingo as an example, but there are plenty all over the DR.

Everyone doesn't have the same opportunities, but opportunities do knock in every door. People just need to learn to recognize them when they do knock.

Some do just that, but most don't.

-NALs
 

aimelove

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Aug 26, 2007
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AMBITIOUS
My wife's brother in Santo Domingo works at an internet cafe and goes to school. After he puts his weekly family contribution in for food, having his clothes washed etc. he saves his money. He doesn't hang out all night at the calmado wasting what he has. He was thinking about getting a car, but instead is opening a moto repair business in Los Patos at age 22. - YOUNG AND AMBITIOUS-

LAZY
My wife's cousin still can't wait for me to open my suitcase to see what little gifts I bring from the US, asks his mother to wire him money from Madrid at age 41. Drinks and smokes up his money as soon as he gets it. Whatever easy way he can think of to get 50 pesos here and there he will do. Doesn't work, although there is a new shopping mall and construction work available all over his neigborhood.

MORAL OF THE STORY
D.R. is very dry when it comes to ways for the average man or woman to make good money, but just like anywhere, some people have that need to succeed and overcome, some people don't.
 

George Holmes

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Nov 15, 2006
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I have heard many stories about Dominicans having lots of money but very little class. Going out to some bars and other places in SD you see some horrible incidents of people who are just determined to show off how much something costs, even though it is hideous. I remember someone buying a bottle of red Burgundy at around DR$6,000 (naturally the most expensive thing on the drinks list) and dunking it in a bucket of ice until it was nearly frozen. The french person I was with, newly arrived in the DR, just watched open mouthed in astonishment.

Anyone who has spent any time with rich Dominicans knows that their favourite topic of conversation is how much their clothes/car/holiday to switzerland/kids education cost, rather than whether it was a nice shirt/reliable car/good holiday/good education.
 
N

naturelover

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what an unfortunate turn of phrase "blowing bill clinton away"
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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Anyone who has spent any time with rich Dominicans knows that their favourite topic of conversation is how much their clothes/car/holiday to switzerland/kids education cost, rather than whether it was a nice shirt/reliable car/good holiday/good education.

Unfortunately, even some of the "prive en rico" like to flaunt what little they have. I have had quite a few Dominicans, shortly after having met them, start to tell me what stuff they have, as if I could care in the least. Even some of the family does this too - it is a disease that they should be so wrapped up in material things, and I thought Americans were the worst about that.

What is funny is when I take my daughter to the colegio on my motorbike about a half mile down the street, all lot of the Dominican take their children there and the line of cars waiting to drop off their kids must be 1000 feet long replete with Mercedes and Land Rovers. Typically, 90% of the people are dressed to the hilt and talking on the cell phone. So many of them stare at me as if I was crazy - as I quickly make myself to the front of the line w/o waiting to drop off my daughter while dressed in my exceedingly comfortable jeans and tshirt.

I have, however, noticed that some of the wealthier and well travelled Dominicans, while still dressed in impeccable attire and drive around in the lates most expensive car, don't talk so much about wealth - I figure they probably have met enough Americans to know that they typically aren't impressed with stuff like that.

Nonetheless, I find talking with Domincans a pleasure. In fact I won't hesitate to say that I have more friends and acquaintance here in a year and a half in the DR that I had in almost 6 years in Orlando. This place is definitely a lot more fun than my home country for that one reason, el calor humano. It is funny how Dominicans can excel at the two seemingly dichotic entities, materialism and genteelness.
 

Tallman1680

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Oct 7, 2006
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Well, the poor do share in the responsibility department. Plenty of Dominicans of poor backgrounds are living in the U.S. and a good number of them are wasting time, despite all the opportunities available to them.

Also, many Dominicans of humble origins have moved up through determination, hard work, and perseverance. Look at the owners of Adrian Tropical in Santo Domingo as an example, but there are plenty all over the DR.

Everyone doesn't have the same opportunities, but opportunities do knock in every door. People just need to learn to recognize them when they do knock.

Some do just that, but most don't.

-NALs

I agree with you in this,poor Dominican people can sometimes be very lazy and blame the Presidente for all their problems.
They want everything hand out to them for nothing.
 

AZB

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Jan 2, 2002
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I have, however, noticed that some of the wealthier and well travelled Dominicans, while still dressed in impeccable attire and drive around in the lates most expensive car, don't talk so much about wealth - I figure they probably have met enough Americans to know that they typically aren't impressed with stuff like that.
It all depends on the company and the type of a person.
When you were in my house, did you notice anyone talk about their wealth? Were we trying to one up each other? Not at all, we were talking like normal friends. Let me tell you a bit, the doctor who was there, drove in a 2007 BMW 7 series. You how much that is worth in DR? The guy in front of you is from a rich family and his brother is a politician and others are well known business men in DR. He is pretty well off as well. The couple with Brazilian wife has a well established dental clinic with a full staff of people working in a very respectable plaza. He goes to brazil and USA like we go to moca. the american guy was also a well established business man in DR and in USA.
So not a single one spoke of their wealth, we were all sitting outside in plastic chairs having a funfull evening among friends. So chip if you have run into dom york chopos in jepetas with black label whiskey in hand, I can guarantee, they are still chopos who only try to impress others who care to listen to them.
AZB
 

miguel

I didn't last long...
Jul 2, 2003
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No confundan....

The rich people that are well educated, well-traveled and have seen a "few interesting things is their lives" are NOT show-off!. (At least NOT all of them).

MOST are humble people that do NOT like to talk about their or anybody else's wealth.

Actually, talking about such topic makes them feel embarrassed.

Don't confuse rich with having class as we all know that because a person is rich does NOT means he/she has class. And visa versa.

One thing I know:

Even those that do NOT show-off are labeled in the DR. Mostly by jealous people!!.
 

chola1978

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Mar 20, 2006
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LOL
que tema mas pendejo............
Having class as Miguel says has nothing to do with wealth. Just because someone is financially independent does not mean their are of upper class. Most of the Ivy Leagues Graduates Dominican are among the most humble human being you will find. Now some one that made his wealth in Zona Franca working hard and sweeting his@#$.off in my option has the rights to brag about how far they have come in life. It might be strange for those that never actually struggle in life to know the feeling of belonging most lower class Dominicans can associate with Money. Wealth is not the same as Richness


Bueno como yo no pertenesco a esa clase social(welath no tnego derecho a critcar sus decisiones all I cna control is how my sons and doughter and Myself act. Ones my kids are adults they will be responsible forthier actions. Las actiones o comentarios de algunos dominicanos no merece un Post que ponga todos los Dominican Americna nad does of blue collard richness and wealth in the same class. Does hat critize are as bad as does that brag...............El respecto al derocha ajeno.....................
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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Santiago
It all depends on the company and the type of a person.
When you were in my house, did you notice anyone talk about their wealth? Were we trying to one up each other? Not at all, we were talking like normal friends. Let me tell you a bit, the doctor who was there, drove in a 2007 BMW 7 series. You how much that is worth in DR? The guy in front of you is from a rich family and his brother is a politician and others are well known business men in DR. He is pretty well off as well. The couple with Brazilian wife has a well established dental clinic with a full staff of people working in a very respectable plaza. He goes to brazil and USA like we go to moca. the american guy was also a well established business man in DR and in USA.
So not a single one spoke of their wealth, we were all sitting outside in plastic chairs having a funfull evening among friends. So chip if you have run into dom york chopos in jepetas with black label whiskey in hand, I can guarantee, they are still chopos who only try to impress others who care to listen to them.
AZB

AZB - that is what I was saying too, that some of the wealthy here don't always flaunt it here, at least in conversations - that is a good thing.

Now if we can get these very intelligent, good hearted, successful business people to start working for positive change for the Patria, we could really have a bright future here. :)
 

Adrian Bye

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Jul 7, 2002
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As the OP, my intention was to discuss the Dominican perspective of wealth on the international level, not whether they flaunt what they have.

Do others feel Dominicans have a skewed perspective on how successful their fellow countrymen are?

At the core, this is a small island; even the top earners here can't get *that* wealthy because there just aren't enough consumers here.

Adrian
 

chola1978

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Mar 20, 2006
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what is wealth?

I believe in oder for us to help out the Op he must first define what is Wealth.
So we can them give an opinion.
Remember that just because we are small island does not mean wealth cannot be obtain here. Import/export business cna be very lucrative. Wealth cna be obtain in any size economy if you have your business plan well organize and remember that we are in a global economy sometimes location only helps you compete in a global market.

How much money must an entrepreneur make to be consider wealthy?
is Vimenca Owner wealthy?
D?asle coorpration owner wealthy?
Corripio?
Lama?
Rodriguea Family?
Ochoa?
Bermudez
Brugal
 

CFA123

Silver
May 29, 2004
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As the OP, my intention was to discuss the Dominican perspective of wealth on the international level, not whether they flaunt what they have.
Adrian

They know they're big fish in a little pond. Some maintain big fish status outside DR, but they know good and well they're swimming in a crowded pool and could be eaten. It's pretty humbling to fly into Miami or Teterboro in your Citation or Beechjet and have it dwarfed by the private jets you park next to. You feel like you're flying in a used Hyundai.

Regarding other's comments on the attitudes of the wealthy, what I witnessed while living in Santiago was a very active social scene where appearance, where you were, and how you presented yourself was very important. In their homes or on vacation I found them to be as laid back as anyone when not needing to present 'an image'. Of course, there are a few who are focused on being prep'd to appear in the social pages 24 hours a day or have their homes featured in Architecural Digest... misplaced values if you ask me.
 

jackieboo

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Mar 18, 2006
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AZB - that is what I was saying too, that some of the wealthy here don't always flaunt it here, at least in conversations - that is a good thing.

Now if we can get these very intelligent, good hearted, successful business people to start working for positive change for the Patria, we could really have a bright future here. :)

Chip you hit the head right there 'working for positive change for the Patria'. People that have been fortunate in life, especially here in the DR, can do amazing things to alter the future.

The big question is 'who' or 'what' can organize these people so the island will have a bright future?
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Do others feel Dominicans have a skewed perspective on how successful their fellow countrymen are?

At the core, this is a small island; even the top earners here can't get *that* wealthy because there just aren't enough consumers here.

Adrian
Your second sentence leads me to believe that some foreigners do have a skewed perspective on how successful many high income Dominicans are, except that they tend to have a perspective that is skewed downward, contrary to the perspective many Dominicans have.

Yes, it is a small island and with a consumer market of roughly 3 million, it is quite small for any business person dedicated to one trade. But, here is the reality; most high income business persons in the DR own conglomerates, basically for the same reason, the country doesn't have a large consumer market. In such circumstances, there are only two ways a person can develop a large business that will create enough wealth for the family to become millionaires or to maintain their millionaire status, and by millionaire I mean in U.S. Dollar since anyone can be a millionaire in pesos nowadays.

1. Monopoly; a monopoly in a single trade will produce enough wealth for its owner(s).

2. Conglomerate; a conglomerate is a collection of various companies in various trade that combined produces as much wealth as one large monopolistic corporation or a large company in a large consumer market.

This also includes becoming the exclusive importer of first world products within the country and for this constant business trips must be made to the U.S. and/or Europe or simply have a family member live in one of those places to research and discover potential products that could have a market in the DR and ensure that the family conglomerate becomes the exclusive importer of such.

Many of the top businessmen in the DR actually do business outside of the country as well, particularly in other Latin American countries and combine that with a good strategy to increase wealth via various passive investment types and increasing a person's net worth to seven American dollars figures is quite possible or eight figures if a person is truly determined, in fact this has been done time and again.

The key is to see beyond the perceived limitations of the country.

Most people fail to do just that and miss the boat completely. Others see what's possible and they end up like Grupo Le?n Jimenes, the largest Dominican company that supposedly made a US$600 million profit last year.

And that is not a typo, albeit its supposedly true.

Cuando el r?o suena, es porque agua trae.

-NALs
 
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Adrian Bye

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They know they're big fish in a little pond. Some maintain big fish status outside DR, but they know good and well they're swimming in a crowded pool and could be eaten. It's pretty humbling to fly into Miami or Teterboro in your Citation or Beechjet and have it dwarfed by the private jets you park next to. You feel like you're flying in a used Hyundai.

This makes a lot of sense, thanks for your post CFA123. The top DR guys who are out in the world must know exactly where they stand.

On another point, Nals, in his post is exactly representing the viewpoint I was talking about. Nals, your source for Empresa Le?n Jimenes earnings comes from Wikipedia - do you really consider them as an accurate source, particularly for something like earnings statements?

Secondly, the amount quoted in Wikipedia for their profits is in PESOS, not dollars. Profits of RD$600M are approx US $20M/year. They only have 3000 employees. While they have a big impact locally, E Leon Jimenez is pretty small on a global scale.

Adrian