Elitism, what a shame

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Chip

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I have been confronted face to face recently with the realities of elitism and borderline racism here in the DR unfortunately. Gladly to say I haven't been exposed to this before but getting my first real dose of it was quite troublesome.

It appears that many of the students of the bilingual school where my daughter goes are recently making fun of her because I take her to school on my motorbike, becasue I really see no reason to take he in the car and wait in a line for 15 min. when we are about a half mile away from the school. Also, I sent our housekeeper to the school to deliver her lunch as I usually do on a daily basis but couldn't today because of work and upon arriving, my daughter refused to sit down with the housekeeper to eat because she said "the kids will then think you are my mother and I don't want them to think my mother is so dark". Our housekeeper is certainly dark and may even be taken for a Haitian, but then again, so are some of my wife's family and in fact her best friends in the campo in Moca are quite dark.

I at first wanted to blame this on my wife's family who call eachother "haitiano" when one misbehaves but my wife says it is almost a term of endearment. I don't know about that but I do know a real problem lies in the elistist attitude of a lot of the rich here and what they are teaching their children. I have noticed most of the kids that go to this school are brought by their parents, many, many with Land Rover and dressed to the t early in the morning, some of which who give me looks of disdain as if I should get out of the way while I'm exiting the school, because after all "they have a yipeta". It follows then that these kids are influenced by their parents own beliefs, apparently that to be poor/dark is somehow wrong - even though some of the students there are much, much darker than my daughter.

I realize too, that kids will be kids and even though I went to Catholic school there was the usual gossiping and making fun of people but I don't really remember anything overtly racial. That being said I need to investigate this more and maybe talk to the principal. I can't control everything my daughter will be exposed to in this world but I can't think of much worse to be in this world than a classist or a racist, it is the antithesis of my beliefs and I will therefore make a change in the school if necessary.

I aslo told my daughter if she ever treated our houskeeper this way again, she could expect an unpleasant spanking, much in the same way my Dad explained to me when I told him a Jewish joke.
 

AZB

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Jan 2, 2002
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Chip, I am surprised to see that you still don't see how things run in santiago. wait, I am not surprised to hear all this from you. My bad.

Now lets try to understand this step by step so everyone who is as blind as you could see my point.

You send your kids to a white, rich school where everyone is transported in SUVs and then you show up in a motorcycle to drop off your daughter in front of her classmates?
I know you don't ride a 30 thousand dollar Harley, in fact, your motorcycle is the same as a motorcycle used by motoconchos. You do know what we all think of motoconchos in santiago and in DR? If you don't, then I suggest you get out of your area and talk to some other folks. You expect the kids in your daughter's school to understand your mentality and forget all what they see 24/7 around them in their rich environment? I think not.
The kids will always be kids and they will make fun of your daughter. You just don't seem to get it. You will continue to torture your daughter by talking her to school in the back of moto as if her dad is a motoconcho. Then you send in a haitian maid to sit with her while all kids watch. Your daughter is not upset that your maid is dark, she is more upset that the maids look like a maid regardless of her skin color Since most of our resident expats and tourists whites always seem to find a woman who looks and acts like a maid in every way, why should the rich dominican kids not think thats she is her mom. White guys like you are known to marry women who are from barrios and were probably maids in some house before they meet the foreigners. So you see what image the expats have left behind in this country of themselves?

So do your daughter a favor: stop taking her to school in motorcycle like a motoconcho in your wife-beater T shirts. Start to dress up like proud educated men of santiago. I guarantee you that you will not die of discomfort if you dress up like a gentleman. Take out your car and sit your lovely daughter in the front seat and get in the line with the rest of the cars. Stop talking like Cibeano chopo. you sound like a gomero when you talk spanish. Start to listen to people in your golf course and see how they talk to strangers. Imitate their accent and learn their habits. Stop sending your poorly dressed maid to school to sit with your daughter. send in her food in a small container and let her eat with her friends. Let her feel equal to her friends, this way she will be accepted.
now if you are still hung up on skin color and refuse to change your daily routines, maybe it would be a good idea to move to haiti where your maid will not feel out of place.
AZB
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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This was bound to happen, for one thing because kids will always be kids.

I see this in Connecticut as well. The private schools (and in many towns even the public schools) see a parade of late model SUVs and luxury cars dropping and picking up their kids, sometimes the lines are so long that they overflow into the street and create traffic jams.

Think about it, if you take your kid in a "motorcito" to a school where most arrive on late model vehicles, whether its the DR or CT, your kid will feel the peer pressure or some sort of humiliation.

Good thing she has to wear a uniform, otherwise the clothes she wears might had been another thing for the kids to make fun of.

And then the case of the maid; well everyone at her school probably thinks she is poor and is able to attend that school because some Dominican in the exterior is paying for her tuition, then of course all the kids will think that the maid is her mother; after all, what lower class people have maids?

Add all those points together and it should be clear why she feels the way she does and why her peers react the way they do to her.

I'm surprised she has not asked you to drop her off a few feet away from the school or perhaps around the block.

Sometimes parents with the best or most practical intentions, put their kids in uncomfortable situations vis-a-vis their peers.

As for the color thing, the kids think she's poor so for them to assume that the dark woman is her mother will simply reinforce the perception of her being poor; that is the single biggest fear of all middle class and upper class people, to be confused with the poor.

Had the perception of her being poor not become a problem, then she most likely would had been a greater ease in being seen by her peers with the maid, since she will be able to effectively tell her peers that she is just the maid and they will simply believe it.

Seeing her being dropped off in a "motorcito" eliminated the slightest possibility of her being able to say that she is just the maid; everyone will believe that not only she is her mother, but that your daughter is a liar.

Never mind that everyone see that her father is white, the socio-economic standing are more important than race, but when the first puts a person in the lower class, the latter takes an even greater significance.

That's why she is being mocked, despite her father being white. The motoconcho motorcycle has a greater impact than the color of her father's skin, in this situation.

Tough situation, for the kid.

Sometimes I wonder if expatriates in the DR would've acted the same given a similar situation in the U.S. I have yet to see an "out of place" vehicle dropping off a kid at any of the private schools in CT, but if there is one, I won't be surprised if the same social tensions present themselves.

In places where what you consume is what you are, this tends to be the reality.

-NALs:ermm:
 

Robert

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Welcome to the DR!

I'm with AZB, have you only just now worked out how this place works?
Trust me, your kid has been experiencing racism and elitism, long before you realized.

You have 2 options.

1) Move your daughter to a crappy public school. Regardless of the private school, the treatment and outcome will be the same.

2) Change a little Chip, so you fit in a little and your daughter doesn't have to carry the stigma of dad being called a "white chopo" at school. I know it's harsh, but that's the reality.

Your daughter will make many of her life long friends at school. Private schools in the DR are like social networks. Santiago is really small and networking and assimilating is important if you want to get on and do well. That's the reality and it's going to be the reality for your daughter. Forget all the philosophical mumbo jumbo on elitism and racism and saving the whales, it's a way of life here. Adapt or die!
 

Adrian Bye

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Jul 7, 2002
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What Robert and AZB are saying is exactly right - but I'm with Chip. I don't like this stuff either.

What is interesting is that the vast majority of those people with their shiny jipetas don't have any real money. Its just a big show.

Robert and AZB have had to learn to fit in in order to do business here, so they're probably more used to it.

You really have to make a decision of whether you want to follow local rules or not. Personally I don't have to, so I don't.

Adrian
 

alicious

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When I teaching at a private school on the North Coast, I saw the same thing...with my 5 and 6 year old students!!!!

These kids have no chance to grow up without racism, when it's ingrained into them at such a young age.

A few of the light skinned girls were not allowed to stand in the sun, in case they would turn dark. The little girls would remind me of this during their recess, and the tone of their voices and looks on their faces when they would say "turn dark" was as if it were a disgusting disease.

One of the darker girls mother came into class to discuss with me her daughter's grades..and in FRONT of her daughter...she said that she understands if the other girls don't like her because she is too dark!!!! I was so disgusted to hear a mother say something like that in front her her daughter.

But as a teacher, there wasn't too much I could say, except I mentioned that she is a beautiful girl, and the other children like her fine because she is so sweet. While that made the little girl smile when I said that, I still saw the look on her face when her mother made the comment about her being too dark for the other girls to like her. :(

When children are brought up to view things this way at the ages of 5 and 6, it's no wonder they turn out to be so "elitist". They don't really have a chance to be anything but.

Very sad....
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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I agree that kids will be kids - but disagree that one should just accept this. I have managed to live in Santo Domingo for eight years, and while I don't deny that these attitudes exist, and sadly enough may even be the mainstream/majority, posters here are doing Dominicans an injustice by tarring them all with that brush.
Maybe I've been lucky, but all the Dominicans I choose to spend time with would be disgusted if their children came out with anything like that.
 

Tom F.

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Jan 1, 2002
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Chip, Wear a collared shirt and long pant when you drop your daughter off at school, but I would stick with the motorconcho drop-off thing. We can get away with a few things as gringos.

I would be more fearfull of your daughter adapting these attitudes and teach her to be a rebel. You want a good education for her but I always loved making fun off the rich who are idiots.

Tom F.
 

alicious

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I also agree with Chirimoya, that while it is a reality in the DR, doesn't mean that we need to accept it....and def. not all Dominicans are like this...

I found if I ever spoke out against comments or actions that I felt weren't right, first of all they would look shocked that I said anything. The second reaction to me disagreeing with them, would always be either to seem embarrassed and pretend I didn't say anything, or get their backs up and defend themselves. But not once did I ever hear someone stop and admit out loud that they were wrong....

More than anything I think they were often just shocked I didn't see things the same way as them...
 

Robert

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Chiri, come on :)

You have assimilated very well here, husband is a well known and respected Dominican. You move in certain circles and your son is not dropped off at school on a moto.

This is more about expats assimilating than tarring all Dominicans with the same brush.
95% of expats here would have trouble coming up with 2-3 Dominicans they call friends or socialize with.
 

Robert

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Chip, Wear a collared shirt and long pant when you drop your daughter off at school, but I would stick with the motorconcho drop-off thing. We can get away with a few things as gringos.

Tom F.

Not the best advice :)

How long have you lived and worked in the DR?
 

dr_qt

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Jun 7, 2007
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Chip

While I do not live in the Dominican Republic, I understand children very well.

I understand that you want to ensure your daughter does not fall into the eletist and racist traps so many others have followed.

But... placing her in a situaton where she will be ostracized and teased will not work. Most likely it will have the opposite affect on her. She will feel ashamed and unworthy.

The experiences young children have often stay with them throughout thier lives. If she is young, under the age of 12, she will not understand your reasoning and will compare herself worth to what she sees in her peers.

It would be better to do what you can to make her fit in with her peers, and continue to talk to her about your values at home.
 

bob saunders

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Jan 1, 2002
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Talk to your daughter, ask her how/why she feels a certain way. Listen to her answer and acknowledge her feeling. Do not tell her how she should feel but let your feelings be known. Let it be for a few days then talk to her again and ask her if she want to be driven to school by car instead of moto, see what her answer is.
 

Tom F.

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Robert,

I've worked and lived in the DR for 4 years and still live in a Dominican environment in the US for almost 20 years. I ran a business in the DR and played the game. On a personal level, when I had a chance, I let the elite know how riduclous the patron attitude is and can make most any of them look like fools. Their maids usually have control over their every day lives. As far as my children, they will get a good education and will stand up to injustice when they see it, not fall prey to it.

Tom F.
 

2LeftFeet

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Dec 1, 2006
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My feeling is ... sometimes we don't like the way things are.... but that's how they are. There are things in this world that we can change and things that we can't. This is one of them.

No, you don't want your daughter to be an elitist snob but you don't want her to be embarrassed or ashamed or made fun of either.

You can teach her at home morals and values. You and your wife and family can control that.

Your principles, though noble should not be thrusted upon your daughter. Right now she isn't going to understand them nor are her schoolmates who are teasing her. She is just going to feel bad.

Take the car, pack her lunch, and teach her not to be a snob some other way.

She comes first here.
 

dr_qt

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Talk to your daughter, ask her how/why she feels a certain way. Listen to her answer and acknowledge her feeling. Do not tell her how she should feel but let your feelings be known. Let it be for a few days then talk to her again and ask her if she want to be driven to school by car instead of moto, see what her answer is.

Listening to your daughter is important. Good listening means, allowing her to tell you how she feels without thrusting your opinions upon her. Try asking some open-ended questions, ( like why do you feel....? how do you feel when I...? What would make you feel....?)
What she tells her mother is also important, since children are generally more open to the same sex parent. Have your wife ask her the same questions at another time.
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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Chiri, come on :)
You have assimilated very well here, husband is a well known and respected Dominican. You move in certain circles and your son is not dropped off at school on a moto.
No, we walk to school :) I park my tiny car a little way away from the school so as not to be part of the mayhem, and walk the last couple of blocks.
The circles we move in could be described as mostly 'alternative'. I don't know about Santiago - the impression I get is that it is more conservative - but one of the few good things about living in a big city like Santo Domingo is that even if you don't share all the mainstream values, you can usually find enough like-minded people and not have to go along with stuff you don't feel comfortable with.
I agree though that school and kids being nasty is not so easy to tackle, whether it is about what car your dad drives, or whether you're fat or have red hair.

This is more about expats assimilating than tarring all Dominicans with the same brush.
95% of expats here would have trouble coming up with 2-3 Dominicans they call friends or socialize with.
That may well be true, but Chip, who like me is married to a Dominican, is not an expat in that sense. He has assimilated, just not with the jeepetocracy. As we all know from umpteen movies :) sometimes not going with the flow shows more integrity and strength of character - although with kids it is easier said than done. I don't know exactly how old his daughter is, but it is worth trying to have a chat and explain why those other children are wrong, and what defines a person's worth.
 

Robert

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Robert,

On a personal level, when I had a chance, I let the elite know how riduclous the patron attitude is and can make most any of them look like fools.
Tom F.

I'm sure they couldn't wait for the next piece of "wordly" advice from Tom.
I usually do the same when I bump into one of the Hazory's or Alejandro Grullon at the bank, fools! jejejeje
 
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