Myth or not the DR's cost of living is cheaper than many cities around the world

PlantaFULL

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The myth of the DR being a cheap place is still very much alive in much of Europe. Vacation packages to the DR are often sold dirt cheap. I think this, mixed with the "poor looks" of the country makes many people wonder why they should be paying and tipping as if in Paris or NYC, when the guy they are paying/tipping is apparently a poor soul living under a roof with 10 family members.

Having lived here 3 years, I still wonder about many things myself. Real estate prices for example. Bargain from NYC perspective, somewhat on par with FL, more expensive then latin america. Now consider the haitian labor building these things... imagine real estate prices if those guys started getting a normal salary. Way too much ripping off into the pockets of a few going on in this country.
 

NotLurking

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I don't know how this thread got from a 10% service change and acceptable tipping practices in the DR to cost of living and myths about how cheap it is in the DR.

Myth or not the DR's cost of living is cheaper than many cities around the world. In fact the cost of living in DR compared to cities around the world have actually dropped!

According to Mercer Human Resource Consulting survey, Santo Domingo, DR is in 126th place when compared by cost of living with 144 other cities. Santo Domingo, DR had a sharp drop (27 places on the list) from its 99th place in 2005 to 126th place in 2006. In 2007 Santo Domingo, DR was also 126th on the list of compared cities indicating that in relation to all surveyed cities Santo Domingo, DR cost of living stayed about the same.

Worldwide Cost of Living Survey 2006 city rankings
Finfacts Ireland


NotLurking
 
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I wonder if the cost of living index takes into acount corruption and bribery costs to live someplace.

the interest rates and the cost of automobiles and housing alone are so much higher in the DR than most any place I can think of in America...it seems hard to believe that all the other factors play into the equation ,enough to lower the index for the DR down as much as it does.

I think it bears relavance to the rate one would tip ..if you think giving a $1US tip amounts to 10% of a person daily pay....verus knowing that a $1US tip only equals 1% of a persons daily income....you might change your tipping rate.....no matter what the percentage of the bill is.

bob
 

El_Uruguayo

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While I agree that Santo Domingo is cheaper than many other cities, it's still not "cheap."

Justa few things from the report to put into context.

"It is the world's most comprehensive cost-of-living survey and is used to help multinational companies and governments determine compensation allowances for their expatriate employees."

Ok, so the report is intended for American companies, and is based on a dollar rate, it does not take into account, other currencies, or standard of living for locals. It's based cost of a basic standard.

"Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro are the most expensive cities in Latin America moving up from 119th and 124th positions to 34th and 40th place respectively... ...In particular, the cost of international-standard accommodation has risen significantly in these cities."

The key here is "international-standard accomodation" which is what they must use as a base. Although you can get a room or apartment pretty cheap in santo domingo, international standard, isn't very cheap.

"Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic is in 126th position (65.3) and has dropped 27 places due to the depreciation of the Dominican Peso against the US dollar."

Since the report is from 2006, this report is probably reflecting the depreciation during the Ban-Inter crisis. I'd suspect that since the report, this has corrected itself, and Santo Domingo has back, probably at least as many places as it dropped. So it's probably safe to assume that it's probably somewhere around 99th place now.

"Ottawa remains the least expensive Canadian city but has climbed 32 places from 122nd to 90th (75.6)."

Ottawa, the city where I live was rated at 90th, just a few places above where Santo Domingo should be. So you can see that from my perspective, it's not that cheap.

Now, to put things into perspective, when I go to Santo Domingo I have a very good time, and don't find myself struggling all too much. This is because I stay at my GF's, and she has a car, which takes away quite a few expenses. But if I were to live in an "international standard" appartment, and have no transportation of my own, it probably would be a lot more difficult.

Taxes are high, services are practically non-existant, security is not great, groceries are expensive, add other complications of dealing without electricty, running water, tropical storms, etc. All these have financial implications. But I can deal with it, and it's a little bit cheaper for me to live there, than it is for me to live in Ottawa - as long as I have money in the bank.

If I were to try and earn a living there, my standard of living would decrease signifigantly, and that being that I can get better jobs than a great deal of dominicans.

For an average dominican, making an average wage, it's tough to do the math to figure out how they deal with accomodation, transportation, food, and a little extra for themselves, add a couple of mouths to feed, and it's mind boggling. You can forget saving up for a down-payment, or getting a mortgage. Standard of living is very low for the average dominican, not very high for the working expat. It's great if you're independatly wealthy.

So what I come to is this: "I think it bears relavance to the rate one would tip ..if you think giving a $1US tip amounts to 10% of a person daily pay....verus knowing that a $1US tip only equals 1% of a persons daily income....you might change your tipping rate.....no matter what the percentage of the bill is."

First off, 1$US probably amount to about 2.5% of an american waiter's wage. But people tip generously, because the waiter is probably striving for something better, provided good service, and we'd like for them to have that money. In the DR it's unfortunate that 1$US is 10% of the wage (if it's even that), but people will be reluctant to tip the Dominican as well as the American, because his wage is low (due to crap labour laws) and they don't want to be seen as a chump, the DR is SUPPOSED to be cheap, and there is an attitude in the DR of let the poor be poor, while in the US there are the ideas of "a dollar and a dream." Why not give the Dominican the same chance as the american. His wage is lower, chances are that after close (if at night), his ony way of getting home is, by taxi, by car, or walking(read: extra expense). Service people rely on tips to get ahead, people should give what's due.
 

NotLurking

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El Uruguayo said:
While I agree that Santo Domingo is cheaper than many other cities, it's still not "cheap."
Ok, can you please list your criteria for a 'cheap' place to live and list a few places that meet or exceed your 'cheap' to live test?


El Uruguayo said:
Since the report is from 2006, this report is probably reflecting the depreciation during the Ban-Inter crisis. I'd suspect that since the report, this has corrected itself, and Santo Domingo has back, probably at least as many places as it dropped. So it's probably safe to assume that it's probably somewhere around 99th place now.

Ottawa, the city where I live was rated at 90th, just a few places above where Santo Domingo should be. So you can see that from my perspective, it's not that cheap.

Your assumption here is WRONG the DR did not climb the list for 2007. I don't know where you got the idea that the DR went up the list if I said it stayed in the same place for 2007. I hate to quote myself but I said:

NotLurking said:
In 2007 Santo Domingo, DR was also 126th on the list of compared cities indicating that in relation to all surveyed cities Santo Domingo, DR cost of living stayed about the same.

Here is a link containing the 2007 Mecer Survey
List of most expensive cities for expatriate employees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NotLurking
 

El_Uruguayo

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Well your original link was for "Worldwide Cost of Living Survey 2006 – city rankings", so that would be based on 2005 data which would account for a devaluation of currency. Also Wikipedia is not a reliable source, the info from wiki shows the same results as the report you originally quoted, which is dated June 2006, which means the data from which that report was compiled is even older. So unless I see a report from mercer, I stand by my view.

As for: Ok, can you please list your criteria for a 'cheap' place to live and list a few places that meet or exceed your 'cheap' to live test?

Well, I can tell you that brazil, uruguay, buenos aires (the paris/ny of south america) are all signifigantly cheaper. Not only are they cheaper, but they are more secure, and provide better services. The quality of life is better, and a regular living wage gets you further.

The DR is not much cheaper than where I live in Canada, yet Bs. As.'s or Montevideo's cost of living is a fraction of Canada's or even DR's cost of living. Figuring in what people make in the DR is expensive as hell. So for me it might not be expensive, but it certainly isn't very cheap - especially if you figure in the lack of services and other added extras to expenses, like factoring in security, backup electricty, water, bribes, transportation etc. Like I said, for the independantly wealthy, and those that are being paid as "expat employees" (not working in a zona franca for an american company) it's cheap, for anyone else, it's not.
 
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49erman

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Gas here costs $4.50 a galloon!

Presidente, on average costs $9.50 a six pack. Average (50 pesos a beer x 6) About the same as what Heineken costs in the US. And comparing the quality of ****adente and Heieken is joke!

Why do I mention this- gas and beer are probably two of my biggest expenses!
 

El_Uruguayo

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Whoa whoa whoa!! Don't mess with presidente (that's if you were, because your statement is kinda ambiguous), it's damn good beer. But again, it's not expensive, it goes for about the same price as the cheapest beer you can get in Canada (a little more than the cheaper beers in quebec)- but again, we have "sin tax", a certain portion of that beer is alotted for health costs which the consumption of beer will cause in the future. Compared to uruguay, argentina, brazil, or most other latin american countries, the colmado price of a presidente is double what it would be for a national beer in those countries. Gas on the other hand is cheaper in the DR than the merco-sur, that will probably change when Venzuela comes in.

So back to the point, I'm not hating on the DR, I'm just stating that for latin america, and wages earned there, it's not cheap. I like it there, and there's a reason I go back.

btw. Am I the only one that's surprised that no one has come in here with "it may not be that cheap, but the women are" or "how much should you tip your "chica" if she's provided exceptional service." ?? hehehe
 

AK74

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To rip-off those poor souls who wait the whole year for a little vacation, who already pay $500 for ticket and $50 or more bucks per night just for a place to sleep - is shameless I think.

To sit all day on the beach under a palm tree waiting for a naive gringo to come to tip - it sucks, excuse me!
 

NotLurking

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So unless I see a report from mercer, I stand by my view.

You wont see the complete 2007 Mercer report because Mercer is only allowing the 50 most expensive cities in their 2007 survey to be published. That said, have a look at the following piece about the 2007 Mercer survey:

www.domonicantoday.com said:
Santo Domingo.- The Dominican capital city Santo Domingo, though the constant complaints from its inhabitants on the high cost of living, remains among the cheapest cities in Latin America.

The finding is from a study by Mercer Human Resource Consulting, disclosed yesterday in Mexico and coincides with another poll of the world?s capitals, which found that Moscow is the world?s priciest whereas New York City didn?t even make the top 10.

The report from Mexico says the most expensive city of the region is Sao Paulo, Brazil?s industrial capital, and cheapest is Asuncion, capital of Paraguay.

In the world ranking, Santo Domingo is just one notch less expensive than Caracas, Venezuela, and pricier than San Jose, Costa Rica.

Source:
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/ec...ican-capital-is-still-cheap-Mexico-study-says

Unless Caracas, Venezuela climbed the list 38 places to be on the 98th spot of the list and San Jose, Costa Rica climbed close to 34 places to be around your Stanto Domingo estimate of 99 on the list your assumptions are WRONG.


Well, I can tell you that brazil...

Yeah Brazil has, "the most expensive city of the region" according to the Mercer 2007 Survey.

NotLurking
 

El_Uruguayo

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Well as I said, the survey is targetted towards "expat employee" cost of living. Expat employee cost of living has certain implications that non expat-employee cost of living does not. Security, conforts, centrallity, etc.

If you look at the list, all of the cities listed above Santo Domingo are either huge metropolises, or would tend to have a much higher expat employee population than Santo Domingo. Which would naturally make them more expensive for expats employees to live in.

Mexico - world's biggest city, I doubt expats are living in the crappy parts of town
Monterrey - is an oil rich town, that speaks for itself.
Sau Paulo, world's second biggest city, same goes here as does DF
Santiago - 2 - 3 times the population of Santo Domingo, very large amount of foreigners working and doing buisness there.
Panama City - has the canal to take care of, again the gringos aren't going to stay just anywhere.
Rio - again, it has the population of the entire DR, the gringos won't be staying just anywhere.
Guatamala City - can't figure that one out, but the name's got "mala" in it, it explains a lot.
Lima - again it's a much bigger city, bigger cities are more expensive, especially when it comes to expat living
Caracas - has moved up, probably due to currency, or security, as american employees/ undercover spies may feel unconfortable there, and live in high security dwellings that cost more. (this is just speculation)

Those were the Latin American cities surveyed as being more expensive, most are bigger, some are the biggest. A more comparable in size city such as Porto Allegre or Montevideo - you'd find it's cheaper. Even Bs. As. is cheaper, that says a lot.

And as the article starts "Santo Domingo.- The Dominican capital city Santo Domingo, though the constant complaints from its inhabitants on the high cost of living, remains among the cheapest cities in Latin America." That's kinda what matters, the inhabitants standard of living, not expat employee standards/cost of living. There are several vacant appartments, there's not a huge expat-employee population, it's not that big of a city, which is why on this "cheapest city" ratings it scored as it did. But it's a botched survey, cheap for WHO is relative - this survey has no consideration of relative cost of living for locals.

Also, Santo Domingo prices tend to be widespread accross the country for many things, whereas places like Brazil, once you leave the city things do get a lot cheaper.

Don't get me wrong, you do get a considerable bang for your buck in the DR, but there are several places in latin america where your dollar goes further, much further.

That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying it's a crappy city, I enjoy myself in the city and the country in general. I understand the reasons as to why many prices are high - being an island which has to import many things, generating the majority of electricty via coal or oil, security, etc.

let's not consider last-minute all-inclusive vacation packages as cheap living, that's a world apart.
 

suarezn

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To the OP: First we need to distinguish between Santo Domingo and the rest of The DR as it is quite different.

As Uruguayo mentioned the key here is comparing life to international (US) standards. Santo Domingo is very expensive to live that kind of life. I disagree that Argentina and Brazil are cheaper (again for international standard type of lifestyle). Not sure about Uruguay as I've never visited...

The thing about Santo Domingo is that while not cheap you can have certain things that you couldn't afford in cities of developed countries (i.e. live in nanny, gardener, cook, chauffeur, etc). So while housing, cars, gas, etc may be on the par or even more expensive than certain developed cities being able to afford this help makes life way easier and more enjoyable for an expat.
 

laurajane

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Forget surveys,mercer and exchange rates blah blah blah. the simple fact is the cost of a weeks shopping here for example is ridiculous, fruit and vegetables are extortionate, i paid 70 pesos for 3 tomatoes today! The cost of living means to me, the day to day expenses and they have risen dramaticaly, im certainly no expert, just sayin what i see when i check my receipts.
 

49erman

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Whoa whoa whoa!! Don't mess with presidente (that's if you were, because your statement is kinda ambiguous), it's damn good beer. But again, it's not expensive, it goes for about the same price as the cheapest beer you can get in Canada (a little more than the cheaper beers in quebec)- but again, we have "sin tax", a certain portion of that beer is alotted for health costs which the consumption of beer will cause in the future. Compared to uruguay, argentina, brazil, or most other latin american countries, the colmado price of a presidente is double what it would be for a national beer in those countries. Gas on the other hand is cheaper in the DR than the merco-sur, that will probably change when Venzuela comes in.

So back to the point, I'm not hating on the DR, I'm just stating that for latin america, and wages earned there, it's not cheap. I like it there, and there's a reason I go back.

btw. Am I the only one that's surprised that no one has come in here with "it may not be that cheap, but the women are" or "how much should you tip your "chica" if she's provided exceptional service." ?? hehehe

****adente is OK. If I had a choice of a Heineken and Pres, I would of course take the Hiney. I was telling one of my buddies who makes his own beer that they serve it super cold here. He said they usually do that to mask the taste or lack there of. Pres. Light sure goes down good when it is hot out though.
I don't understand why it is so expensive, when you figure Bud Light costs almost 1/2 as much...
 

Criss Colon

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If You Believe,That "You Get What You Pay For"! This IS A "Cheap" Place To Live!

But, "Cheap Is Cheap"!!!!
You CAN rent a cheap apartment,for a cheap price!
You would not want to live there however!
The better question is; "Can you live like you can in Boston,for less money??
The answer is "NO!"!!!
"GOOD STUFF" costs more in the DR!
You want a nice house,a nice car,a good education,health care??
Stay Put!
There is only two things that are cheaper in the DR,Bananas,and "PU$$Y"!
To "Pardon My French"!
Cris Colon
If you add raising a family to the question,it costs even more,for MUCH LESS!

The "WEATHER",is free!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

El_Uruguayo

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Presidente sure is better than most american beer(or as I like to call it: "alcoholized mineral water), but nowhere near as cheap. And the coldness factor is one that I haven't found anywhere else, it's great. It's almost impossible to find as cold a beer at a bar in canada. The only way to get beer that cold is leave it outside for a bit during the winter, hehe.

I think the reason that it is so expensive (relatively expensive - it's not like I can afford it, or have to choose drinking over eating) is that there is a practical monopoly on beer.
 

El_Uruguayo

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But, "Cheap Is Cheap"!!!!
The better question is; "Can you live like you can in Boston,for less money??
The answer is "NO!"!!!
"


That was my point exactly. Unless you have the funds to get you by for as long as you live there. It is extremely difficult to receive an income that will provide an equal standard of living as one would have in North America, even if it is cheaper. Mind you I'm 26, most here are twice my age, have pensions, savings, investment capital, buisnesses, or work for foreign companies representing headquarters, not the local offices.
 

Kat1144

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Cost of living ... it is all relative ..just depends on your standards of living..
In DR you get an in-house worker for peanuts but you pay twice as much for electricity as you would here in the states and you only have it for a few hrs.
Fruits & Veggies are cheaper in DR. In Florida we pay almost 6.00USD for a pineapple. Tomatoes are almost 2.00usd a pound.
Childcare is very inexpensive in the DR (for infants -4 yrs old) but then you pay for education (k-12grade) and in the states public education is free.
 

tjmurray

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That was my point exactly. Unless you have the funds to get you by for as long as you live there. It is extremely difficult to receive an income that will provide an equal standard of living as one would have in North America, even if it is cheaper. Mind you I'm 26, most here are twice my age, have pensions, savings, investment capital, buisnesses, or work for foreign companies representing headquarters, not the local offices.

I'm your same age and live and work in Santo Domingo. It's true that my standard of living is not the same as it was in the United States. I pay basically the same amount at the grocery store as I did in NY and way more at the gasoline pump. Next to rent, gas is my biggest monthly expense. When you take into account a lower salary than compared to the US, your standard of living goes down.

I really cannot complain as I am afforded some basic luxuries in life, but for the most part, I find it amazing how many Dominicans get by. The average salary in the country is around RD$8,000 per month. This is what I pay in gas monthly and many Dominicans have to live on this and support a family. They are miracle workers.

In regards to standard of living, yes, mt standard has gone down financially and materialistically. This doesn't bother me much though, if it did, I would be back in the US. I always felt like another rat in the race living in NYC, another ant in a line of thousands. That feeling is not so in the DR, and in that sense, my standard of living has gone up.