Organic meat and poultry?

El_Uruguayo

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If you can find out where the beef is from, all beef from Argentina and Uruguay is free graze. There is quite a bit of it in the country, I think they refer to it at restaurants as "churasco importado". It's pretty much organic - won't be fed with any animal bi-products.
 

GALK

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What makes you beleave that 'importado' means Imported from Argentina or Uruguay and not from the US?
I thought 'importado' refers to US beef, are there any markings on the package to verify?
 

El_Uruguayo

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Importado could refer to US beef too, sure, it's also imported. But as for restaurants I was told that "churasco importado", which is a special cut, is usually south american. Not excatly a science there. But some packaging should note the origin, if not butchers should be able to tell you.
 

PICHARDO

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May 15, 2003
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LOL!!!!!

Almost all of Dominican poultry and meat that's bought at mom & pops mini markets in the city's edge is "Organic".

Only big meat producers use feeders in the DR, most local breeders just have their fincas for the animals to graze upon.

All imported meat into the DR uses certain preservatives that will make their original organic status useless once this step is taken...

Just don't buy your meat at the local supermarket and trek a bit outwards to the city's edge towns. Buy your meats by bulk if you don't want to go so far or get some live ones (chickens) and just let them loose in a caged section in your backyard...
 

El_Uruguayo

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Even then, i doubt it qualify as organic. You never know how contaminated the stuff that the home-grown chickens eat is. or the water they drink, etc. etc. I might even be worse than factory farmed food. Mind you this is from pure observation, you know, seeing chickens eating garbage, and drinking sewar water - not that all chickens do this. eheh
 

PICHARDO

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"Organic" can mean many things in many countries, yet it's the DR that best fits the role of supplying "organic" and "Free range" meats to the export market. This also paired with the "organic" fruits and foods that are now becoming a huge sector of the DR's export income.

I rather eat an organic chicken than one from the US, where the term is used with little attention to actual full conditions in breeding the animals.

Do your homework and you'll be amazed to find that the DR is considered a fertile ground market for the "Organic" demand in the regional market...
 

El_Uruguayo

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Oh I know, there are several products that fetch a pretty penny. I'm just a little skeptical of some of the animals, hehe. But I agree "Organic" can be just a part of a brand's trademark, although there are certifying bodies - logos can help determine the authenticity of the product.

You sure they add preservatives before sending? The meat does go in cooled containers, keeping the meat frozen.
 

gamana

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Organic means nothing in this country. Most of the the small chicken farms in the countryside that Pichardo is talking about are far from organic. First, the chicken run is treated with strong pesticide and herbicide. Second, It is also regularly treated with a sanitizing spray for flies and other bugs. Third, water trophs (toyas) are often never cleaned and fungus growth is common.

Organic food falls in the same bag. DR agricultural products are constantly rejected by the US customs for excessive levels of pesticide and herbicide.

The only way you will find organic chicken and organic food in general is by doing a thorough research with producers and inspect their farms.
 

PICHARDO

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Organic means nothing in this country. Most of the the small chicken farms in the countryside that Pichardo is talking about are far from organic. First, the chicken run is treated with strong pesticide and herbicide. Second, It is also regularly treated with a sanitizing spray for flies and other bugs. Third, water trophs (toyas) are often never cleaned and fungus growth is common.

Organic food falls in the same bag. DR agricultural products are constantly rejected by the US customs for excessive levels of pesticide and herbicide.

The only way you will find organic chicken and organic food in general is by doing a thorough research with producers and inspect their farms.

OK:

First, the conditions to which you refer to only are used by large farms that actually run a huge biz on the meats and supply lines. No city's edge breeder spends a penny on pesticides/herbicide/sanitizing spray/water trophs...
They just have large chicken coops that feed from the ground and 5th graded corn that they buy cheap from the left over of the cooperatives. No fancy feed brands/hormones/etc...

Same goes for people that own cattle in herds of low quantity there too, the most these cows see is the hand of a vet up their rectum from time to time...

You're comparing apples to oranges here...

To give you an example you can take in Granja Mora's system which you described atop your points here, not like the small breeder that relays in total recycling of the coop. The older chicks get sold and new ones are allowed to breed and fatten till the cycle repeats many times over...

Big farms must fatten their chicks quick to avoid over running expenses and to continue the cycles that represent more profit, not necessarily better quality/organic rules.

Pollos criollos are plenty in the city's edge, far better quality than farm fattened chicks.

Dominican agricultural products are not rejected mostly because of levels of pesticides and herbicides, but lack of use thereof, since many still contained flies and pests that the administration protects local agriculture from...

To the question of additives in imported meats:
yes they do use chemical gases to break the normal decay of the meat for transport and storage 100% of the time the meat is exported to other countries, even on the case of Organic ones...
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Chris

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I regularly check this .. the products turned away by the FDA and the reason. Most of these as you can see is turned away because the product has trace pesticides. http://www.fda.gov/ora/oasis/11/ora_oasis_c_do.html

OK:

First, the conditions to which you refer to only are used by large farms that actually run a huge biz on the meats and supply lines. No city's edge breeder spends a penny on pesticides/herbicide/sanitizing spray/water trophs...
They just have large chicken coops that feed from the ground and 5th graded corn that they buy cheap from the left over of the cooperatives. No fancy feed brands/hormones/etc...

Picardo, you may be right in certain cases, but in many, you are wrong. Pesticides are used in the campo or on the city edge. The 5th graded corn is certainly not organic. The breeding conditions also usually require something fierce to keep the animals alive, as the environment is not usually clean and sanitary. Organic food is not just the absence of chemicals, it is also the presence of a balanced, healthy and biodynamic set of organisms.
 

PICHARDO

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All the points are true but when you research the application of the discriminating factors to brand a food "Organic" you'll be lucky to spot a single one of them or absence in some cases.

In the US for example most guidelines used to brand food/meats as Organic seldom fit the bill as you presented atop. Yet they are granted the label just by meting the minimum set of standards required for such certification.

Again you apply the requirements and guidelines of individual producers and breeders in the DR alongside that of major farms and operations. Small breeders and producers as known have very little incentive of money to employ chemical/enhancers/feeds/etc... As their income is restricted to what lives in their pockets.

5th graded corn is just that, corn that is not even fit for use in canning or additives because it can't or will cost too much to process to sterilize as required for industrial applications. Yet they're perfect to feed at low cost. The only thing that makes them so low rated is that size, color, texture and quality makes it impossible to adapt cost effectively for anything else other than filler for other stuff and as low graded food for animals.

This being said, your point is not any weaker or mine any stronger on the matter, as guidelines and requirements are constantly changed or tweaked to producer's needs to fit the bill for labeling...

I have yet to find a single study suggesting that a diet of worms is not any better than the high graded feeds that most of the poultry industry utilizes nowadays.

Organic food/meats if anything can be a tricky term to case into specific parameters given the disparate and often changing guidelines used by the certifying bodies of each country/region/market.

If one thing can be said is that the DR having had the poverty and low funding or benefits from government subsidy in the past, has more of an advantage since the soil is still mostly free from the chemicals and pesticides used for so long in fertile soils in the US and EU at large. The use of indicators to turn back loads of produce or meats from Dominican exporters is used to also protect the market from the flooding of goods against local growers. It's a well known fact that shipping containers and whole ships are tainted with many residual chemicals that impregnate the walls of such things and contaminate whole loads due to air and temperature producing condensation that ultimately taints the goods being carried.

The US FDA is not looking out for the best interest of the people but local industry mind you. Just as the Dominican, Russian, UK, etc... Do too.

But like I said neither one can be 100% right or 100% wrong, just a balanced opinion that we both given the information and knowledge acquired produced.
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Chris

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Organic food/meats if anything can be a tricky term to case into specific parameters given the disparate and often changing guidelines used by the certifying bodies of each country/region/market.

Let me clarify then. When I talk about organic food, I don't mean the twists and turns that are necessary to fit someone's labeling standard, or some certifying body's standards. I talk about food that is produced in an organic environment in 'clean' soil, where pest control, fertilizers or products used for animals are biological. Where environmental conditions enhance sustainable farming, soil enrichment and water conservation practices.

I don't usually talk about 'mono culture with organic fertilizers' as we see from companies such as Chiquita and Dole to mention only two. In other words I usually refer to the real stuff.

Small breeders/producers are usually ideally situated to deliver this standard of food to their market once they receive guidance. Currently there is ample evidence that proper organic food production is almost not possible on a huge scale and that it is a system of food production more suited to community style agriculture. The large organic producers are more concerned with marketing than with real food quality.

Even in the Dominican Republic it is possible to go to a system of community supported organic agriculture and in a sense, some of us do just that. In other words, we know where in the campo our food comes from, we know who grows it, what goes into the growing process, and how it is treated post harvest.

So, clarified ..
 

GALK

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A friend of mine is a small organic producer back in Europe, approx. 20 cows and 50 pigs.
In order to get the meet certified he has to produce all their food himself or purchase certified food for his animals.

From everything he grows samples are taken and checked for pesticides or fertilizers (forbidden).
But whenever he slauters a cow or pork, he has a waitinglist of clients he calls and the animal is sold before being killed.
People are paying up to doble the supermarket price depending on the part.

I believe in the DR we are far away from anything similar, although I would not mind to pay more for beef if quality is assured.

Driving from San Pedro to La Romana one can see lots of cattle left and right from the highway same as between La Romana and Higuey, I wonder whether the meet goes for export are to the local market?

Is this the meet sold as 'criollo' for example at Davy Crockett?