Propane gas conversion review (long post)

AZB

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Jan 2, 2002
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Finally I took the plunge and got my car converted to propane gas. This was not an easy decision to make because I had gotten many bad review from people who supposedly had talked to other experts on this issue. Then after unable to keep up with the rising prices of fuel, I had decided to do a research on my own. This time I talked to people who had actually done this conversion and were driving these cars 7 days / week for some time. Before I had only listened to opinions of people who had not converted their cars to this system, thus, they were telling me of what they thought of this conversion without having first hand experience. Now that I have converted my camry to this system, I think I am eligible to write a review.
Here is my review:

The installation was clean and very professional. No hanging tubes or pipes, all well fixed into place, almost seemed like a dealership installation. The tank (16 gallon) was installed deep inside my trunk so it robbed like 30% of my space. There is a gauge on the tank which shows the capacity of the gas inside the tank and also there is a 4 LED gauge inside the dashboard of the car which shows how much gas you have in the tank. The tank is hidden behind the carpet in the trunk so no one sees it. I still have enough space in the truck to put my stuff. The intake hose connector is under the car, under the back bumper so there is no need to open up the trunk to put propane gas in the tank.

I put in like around 800 pesos of gas that filled my 16 gallon tank to 80%. This is the maximum capacity of a 16 gallon tank (14 gallons) because the gas expands in hot temperatures so the safety valve doesn?t allow you to put in more then 14 gallon of gas in a 16 gallon tank. This is a safety measure only.

So when the car starts, it always starts in gasoline and then after 2000 RPM( engine revolutions) the car automatically switches to propane gas. You will feel a slight shifting in the car performance. To women, it will be totally unnoticeable but to guys like me, I felt the difference. The performance of the car degraded like maybe 5-8%. No big deal, like I said, 90% of the people won?t even know the difference. I did because I was looking for it. The engine runs fine but not as smooth as with gasoline but it does run smooth enough. The power seems to be at a slight loss when you are going up hill, but nothing to worry about. My car did shut off 2 times when I was at a stop light and then when I tried to accelerate the car, the engine shut off. This only happened twice in 3 days so I think a small adjustment will cure this problem. No big deal.

Now here is the big deal and here is what makes all the difference between choosing this system vs. leaving your car with the original gasoline system.
I filled up the tank (800 pesos) and drove my girlfriend to her house in las Colinas from gurabo, then I came back to my house, got dressed and went to a campo in moca to attend a wedding. This is after the airport and in moca entrance from auto pista Duarte. Then I returned home, A/C on all the time. Then today went to supermercado nacional then to my friend?s house, picked up 2 guys and went to sosua on the mountain road, a/c fully on and going up hill and down hill abusive driving which requires lots of pressing the gas peddle. We then came back from sosua , then I went to a propane gas station to fill up the tank again to see how much I have used up the gas in all this driving.
To my shock, The tank got filled up in just 311 pesos. Yes folks, all this driving in Santiago then to moca and then to sosua and back to Santiago, only set me back 311 pesos. I am sure the gasoline would have set me back 1500 pesos for sure. Minimum 1200 pesos.
So here is the difference in terms of savings. I am so glad I made this conversion. I highly recommend this conversion to anyone who is sick of paying such high price of gasoline. I know people who have had this system installed in their cars for over 5 yrs and they tell me their engines are still running strong.

Now there is a caution:
I have heard Dominican government will prohibit cars to fill up gas after the elections. They claim there is just not enough gas to fulfill the needs of all cars that are being run on propane. They will install chip in transportation cars (conchos, taxis) and only they would be allowed to use propane gas in cars, the rest can just go and bite the bullet. This is the rumor, so if I were you, I would wait till after the elections to see what happens. Maybe they will take off the subsidy and let the rest pay high price for propane. I am not sure which way this will swing. I know I will find a way to get that chip installed in my car and be ok with any changes that will take place.
AZB
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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You will feel a slight shifting in the car performance. To women, it will be totally unnoticeable but to guys like me, I felt the difference.
AZB

Oh my .. AZB knew I would read his review so he put in a joke just for me. ;)

Anyway, nice and very clear review, AZB. Let me ask a question .. does this completely stop you from using gasoline ever again? or is the complete gasoline system still there and available? I could not quite understand where you said you 'start with gasoline'.?
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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Oh my .. AZB knew I would read his review so he put in a joke just for me. ;)

Anyway, nice and very clear review, AZB. Let me ask a question .. does this completely stop you from using gasoline ever again? or is the complete gasoline system still there and available? I could not quite understand where you said you 'start with gasoline'.?
An internal combustion engine has it's lowest torque at low RPM's. It takes a larger amount of power to overcome the friction and rotating mass at start.

Propane has a lower thermal potential than gasoline does, so gasoline is required at start and when the engine first gets running. THEN the system switches to propane.

AZB, I'd be interested in learning more about where you heard about the subsidy for propane excluding cars and trucks except for concho's and taxi's after the elections. That could be a deal buster.

Also-is it possible to manually switch the system from propane to gas when under heavy load, like a large vehicle pulling a big trailer up a mountain grade?
 

AZB

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Jan 2, 2002
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The propane system can be totally turned off and the car will run on gasoline as if your car never had a propane syatem installed. There is a off switch and automatic switch. When the switch is on off position the car only runs on gasoline and if you put it on automatic then the car starts on gasoline and then switches over to propane when the motor RPM hits 2000.

Now about the propane subsidy issue has been explained to me by a police official who is my patient and he is connected with higher authority in santo domingo. He is connected with generals and with people close to leonel. He tells me that there is a plan in discussion where the president will prohibit the cars to fill up their tanks with propane at propane stations. This is the main plan but they might consider letting the taxis and conchos to operate with propane and the rest will just have to live without it. Remember, 90% of cars in transportation business are equipped with propane systems. This means the transportation vehicles would have a special chip installed in cars or maybe a credit card type chipped card which will alllow them to fill up their cars with subsidized prices. Now I was talking to attendents at the propane station and they say this will never happen, most likely the gas subsidy will be taken off and the prices will be increased. Everyone will be able to fill up with the new prices.
So I am not sure what will happen after the elections.
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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The price difference is only about 21 pesos a gallon, and that is still less than half the price of any gasoline!!!

Good review AZB.

HB
 

oldschool

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Oct 9, 2004
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When the switch is on off position the car only runs on gasoline and if you put it on automatic then the car starts on gasoline and then switches over to propane when the motor RPM hits 2000

So when your idling lets say at a stop light does your engine swich back to gasoline if the RPM's fall below 2000
 

Rocky

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Apr 4, 2002
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I have mentioned this before and will say it again.
After seriously considering converting a gas guzzler I used to have, I came to the following conclusions.
1) Properly converted engines can last as long as with regular gasoline.
2) Nobody in this country does proper conversions and the DR converted engines run poorly and wear out a lot quicker.

One need only check out the price of a conversion in Europe and compare it to DR prices to see that the European conversions which are reputed to be good and do no damage, cost 3 and 4 times as much as here.
Then one need only stand at a propane filling station and listen to the sound of the exhaust coming from the long time converted cars.
You can hear the difference, and it's not a good sound.
We used to tune cars and bikes up by ear, when we had no fancy expensive equipment, and you can evaluate a lot about an engine, just by the sound of it's exhaust.
I remember bumping into one of our DR1 members here in town, as he slowly drove by me, and I yelled out to him to pull over, because I could hear that his catalytic converter was blocked up.
Sure enough, he went and had it punched out and came back to see me to tell me that it was now, as he put it. "like a sports car".
I'm all for saving money and I would even tolerate a bit less performance to do so.
But I truly believe that however it is that they convert the engines differently here than in Europe, has a major effect on the durability.
All of the conclusions were based on what I learned from the internet, listening to the publicos at the propane fill up station, talking to the owners of the converted cars, but the final deciding factor for me was when I asked the sales manager at Espaillat about it.
We've been friends for almost 15 years.
I'm not just taking a business friendship, he is one of my best Dominican friends.
The way he responded to me was even more convincing that what he said.
The way he kind of leaned over and drew me aside, like he was about to share a secret.
"Don't do it, Marco", he said.
"It'll destroy your engine 3 or 4 times faster".
Up until then I had been wavering, unsure who or what to believe, hoping with all my heart that I could convert my gas guzzler into an economy car, but I knew right then and there, that he was giving it to me straight.
These guys know, because they are in the business of buying and selling used cars, and when the car has been converted, they know the engine is prematurely worn out.
It's as simple as that.

Right or wrong, this is what I believe and I wish that I could be wrong, as my present car isn't exactly economical either.
If I thought I could convert it without damaging it, I would do it in a heartbeat.
 

DR Mpe

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Mar 31, 2003
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Finally I took the plunge and got my car converted to propane gas. This was not an easy decision to make because I had gotten many bad review from people who supposedly had talked to other experts on this issue. Then after unable to keep up with the rising prices of fuel, I had decided to do a research on my own. This time I talked to people who had actually done this conversion and were driving these cars 7 days / week for some time. Before I had only listened to opinions of people who had not converted their cars to this system, thus, they were telling me of what they thought of this conversion without having first hand experience. Now that I have converted my camry to this system, I think I am eligible to write a review.
Here is my review:

The installation was clean and very professional. No hanging tubes or pipes, all well fixed into place, almost seemed like a dealership installation. The tank (16 gallon) was installed deep inside my trunk so it robbed like 30% of my space. There is a gauge on the tank which shows the capacity of the gas inside the tank and also there is a 4 LED gauge inside the dashboard of the car which shows how much gas you have in the tank. The tank is hidden behind the carpet in the trunk so no one sees it. I still have enough space in the truck to put my stuff. The intake hose connector is under the car, under the back bumper so there is no need to open up the trunk to put propane gas in the tank.

I put in like around 800 pesos of gas that filled my 16 gallon tank to 80%. This is the maximum capacity of a 16 gallon tank (14 gallons) because the gas expands in hot temperatures so the safety valve doesn?t allow you to put in more then 14 gallon of gas in a 16 gallon tank. This is a safety measure only.

So when the car starts, it always starts in gasoline and then after 2000 RPM( engine revolutions) the car automatically switches to propane gas. You will feel a slight shifting in the car performance. To women, it will be totally unnoticeable but to guys like me, I felt the difference. The performance of the car degraded like maybe 5-8%. No big deal, like I said, 90% of the people won?t even know the difference. I did because I was looking for it. The engine runs fine but not as smooth as with gasoline but it does run smooth enough. The power seems to be at a slight loss when you are going up hill, but nothing to worry about. My car did shut off 2 times when I was at a stop light and then when I tried to accelerate the car, the engine shut off. This only happened twice in 3 days so I think a small adjustment will cure this problem. No big deal.

Now here is the big deal and here is what makes all the difference between choosing this system vs. leaving your car with the original gasoline system.
I filled up the tank (800 pesos) and drove my girlfriend to her house in las Colinas from gurabo, then I came back to my house, got dressed and went to a campo in moca to attend a wedding. This is after the airport and in moca entrance from auto pista Duarte. Then I returned home, A/C on all the time. Then today went to supermercado nacional then to my friend?s house, picked up 2 guys and went to sosua on the mountain road, a/c fully on and going up hill and down hill abusive driving which requires lots of pressing the gas peddle. We then came back from sosua , then I went to a propane gas station to fill up the tank again to see how much I have used up the gas in all this driving.
To my shock, The tank got filled up in just 311 pesos. Yes folks, all this driving in Santiago then to moca and then to sosua and back to Santiago, only set me back 311 pesos. I am sure the gasoline would have set me back 1500 pesos for sure. Minimum 1200 pesos.
So here is the difference in terms of savings. I am so glad I made this conversion. I highly recommend this conversion to anyone who is sick of paying such high price of gasoline. I know people who have had this system installed in their cars for over 5 yrs and they tell me their engines are still running strong.

Now there is a caution:
I have heard Dominican government will prohibit cars to fill up gas after the elections. They claim there is just not enough gas to fulfill the needs of all cars that are being run on propane. They will install chip in transportation cars (conchos, taxis) and only they would be allowed to use propane gas in cars, the rest can just go and bite the bullet. This is the rumor, so if I were you, I would wait till after the elections to see what happens. Maybe they will take off the subsidy and let the rest pay high price for propane. I am not sure which way this will swing. I know I will find a way to get that chip installed in my car and be ok with any changes that will take place.
AZB


How much was the cost? I did it three years ago, then it was 9000 pesos with a 14 gallon used "italian" style tank - meaning no food tank that can?t let out the pressure. I assume prices went up a lot.

Btw, I crashed my car completely with the system, and yes I am still alive -no explosion.
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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I have mentioned this before and will say it again.
After seriously considering converting a gas guzzler I used to have, I came to the following conclusions.
1) Properly converted engines can last as long as with regular gasoline.
2) Nobody in this country does proper conversions and the DR converted engines run poorly and wear out a lot quicker.

One need only check out the price of a conversion in Europe and compare it to DR prices to see that the European conversions which are reputed to be good and do no damage, cost 3 and 4 times as much as here.
Marco, might you know the technical differences in the systems?
 

Robert

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Jan 2, 1999
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The main problem in the DR is they convert, but they do not tune the engine for LPG. I have never seen a rolling road or dyno in the DR. Maybe the performance places have them?

It was my understanding that LPG run engines last longer than gasoline due to the lower carbon deposits and increase in oil viscosity.

I have no idea how they sell the kits including installation for RD$20k here.
All the good kits (propane injectors) I have seen outside of the DR are US$1000+ and that's without the tank and installation.
 

AZB

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Jan 2, 2002
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Rocky has some valid points but I must add that you can't compare concho propane systems to the system I have installed. The conchos have super old cars, poorly maintained in the first place and their systems are equivalents to almost homemade systems. they sometimes use home cooking tanks and cheap unsafe installation of pipes and hoses. their tanks are loose in the back. no wonder when they pass by their cars smell like propane gas.
Now on the other hand, my system (italian) can be installed anywhere from 13k to 22K. I guess the upper price limit would justify the clean installation with professional fitting. The $13K job will have cheaper parts and cheaper hoses and not to mention, monkey job with hoses and pipes coming and going everywhere under the hood. I have seen those jobs too.
What rocky is saying, makes sense but I wonder if his information is up to date. He is correct in saying that some systems cost 3 times as much. I was offered a system which would have cost me $60K (discount price for me). I didn't even go into details on it because I was not interested in spending so much money.
I am quite happy with my system and I have talked to people who have been using this system for over 5 years. They all seem to be happy and saving a ton of cash. Their engines are still good. Lets see it this way, even if rocky is right and my engine does go down after 5 years, just imagine how much money I would have saved already. I can just buy another used engine and start all over again; after all, this is DR and a used good engine plus labor here is a joke.

Now for the person who asked if the car would shift back to gasoline if the engine rpm goes below 2k? No, once the engine is shifted to gas, it stays on gas until you shut off the car.
AZB
 

Rocky

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Despite the differences of opinion, this thread might be a darn good sticky.
This is not the first, nor will it be the last time this topic comes up, and it is an important one, in this day and age of rising fuel prices.
 

AZB

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Jan 2, 2002
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The main problem in the DR is they convert, but they do not tune the engine for LPG.
After the car is fitted with the propane system, then you put in gas and come back to the shop. Then the mechanic will adjust your car and tune the system to propane use. They might make you change the spark plugs if the car back fires.

Now almost 90% of cars in pakistan are run on CNG systems (compressed natural gas). The systems there are cheap and all people convert their vehicles to these systems. I wonder how much better CNG is to propane?

AZB
 

Robert

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Jan 2, 1999
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Let me add. On the newer LPG conversion kits they do not remove the fuel injection ECU, injector rails etc, they leave it all working.

Modern cars have modern system, like traction control etc, they newer LPG systems take this into account and have their own ECU's.

A "proper" LPG conversion is a big job and requires skill and knowhow.
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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I wonder how much better CNG is to propane?

AZB
Much less thermal potential, so even more power degradation. PLUS CNG must be compressed to high pressures. A scary thought.
 

Robert

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After the car is fitted with the propane system, then you put in gas and come back to the shop. Then the mechanic will adjust your car and tune the system to propane use. They might make you change the spark plugs if the car back fires.

AZB

I'm curious, how do they tune the engine? By ear?

I'm assuming the LPG system you had installed does not use injectors?

Your right, the money you save on gas, you can afford to buy a new engine in five years :)
 

AZB

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The tune up was done by the ear. I have a feeling, this system is really not all that bad as people make it out to be. some time back when the gasoline was not really that expensive, maybe people would consider staying with gasoline but now with this rising trend in fuel prices, I think it would be insane not to convert to propane system. If these systems are so bad then we would have seen car engines breaking down left and right all over the country, yet this is not really the case. the car engines break down here due to faulty radiators where the cars get overheated and engines seize. Then you have old engines that also break down due to wear and tear. There is little evidence to support that new propane systems are destroying good engines.
Now there are engines that cost 3 times more and then you have system that cost 3 times less. I guess it has to do with quality parts used example: normal audio cables can be bought for 5 dollars and they go up as much as 60 dollars too (monster cable, gold plated). The difference in audio quality is very little.
AZB
 

AZB

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We can do all the research and read all the dangers involved in propane conversions but lets look at the bottom line: the savings is enormous, the car engines are not being ruined as people claim it to be, the system runs clean and smooth, the car does not smell propane, the installation is clean and hidden from the eyes etc. In fact the system works so well that I have been told that a person bought a new car and took it straight to a propane conversion shop to have it converted, thus, losing his warranty on the new car. I think so many people in this country are not that stupid, they must know something we don't about these systems. After all they are the ones with the experience in this system, while we only do google to get answers. Do what romans do and I am sticking to my propane while you folks fork out big bills to fill up your tanks. Now I hope it does destroy my engine in 5 years so i can go out and buy another good engine and have it installed in my car for peanuts.
AZB
 
Jan 5, 2006
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Robert hit on the major issue with LPG conversions in DR. The cars are never appropriately tuned because the shops do not have the proper equipment to do it.

A properly equipped shop with a skilled installer and tuner would need at least 4 to 6 passes on a dyno with wideband O2 sensor, engine knock sensor, and a way (computer/software) to adjust the fuel/timing map in the piggyback ECU that comes with a complete conversion kit. In DR, they tune manually and by ear, but you have to keep in mind that they still use the car's original ECU, which eventually adjusts and compensates for that tuning, thus the need to keep going back to the mechanic for further periodic adjustments. A proper system, includes a piggyback ECU, which bypasses the fuel/timing function of the car's original ECU, but keeps it controlling the other functions of the vehicle.

Anyway, given what's available, the Italian conversion kits are the best option at this time.