Source of heat for hotwater

Skippy1

New member
Feb 21, 2008
302
0
0
Hi Bob

Hot water well it does kind of depend on how much and how hot.
The cheapest if you take out the initial expenses has to be solar. A small solar panel and an electric heater works well for small mainly domestic uses and the outlay can be recovered in less than a year making years two three and four very attractive.

Propane is cheap compared to electric but again you have to recover the initial outlay. Can be done also within a year. Becareful about installation of propane heaters the exhaust fumes are toxic and can be deadly if not for you maybe your neighbours get an expert check it out for you ...warning the cheap off the street or some of the stores "we can fit for you" guys are not all what they may claim. Remember to ensure the exhaust gases do not return into the house via a window or other entry point. These gases need space and time to dilute in the atmosphere general rule of thumb is at least 10 feet from anyone who can breath the fumes. Carbon Dioxide is a well seasoned killer especially of sleeping children.

Maybe thats put you off....what to go down the electric route. choose a well insulated storage tank and if possible made of copper. no more than 10KW heater element 220v if possible but you can get 110v just they use more current.
Get a plumber to show you the best place to put it so that you dont waste heat piping it all around the house. Some people especially in condos like to use a pump to boost shower pressures. If you have a mixing valve on your sink or shower you can get a problem where the cold water pressure is greater than the hot water and this will result in the cold water entering the hot tank...you will loose all your hot water into your main cold water storage tank.

If you want more detailed information you shpould contact a good engineer or speak to a good ferreteria.

hope that helps

Skippy
 

bob saunders

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
32,504
5,932
113
dr1.com
I'm pretty conversant with the different methods for heating water, and even though I've had plenty of showers with the electric shower head, electricity and water don't mix and I'm a little leery of them. We are planing our move to Jarabacoa sometime in 2009. We already have property but not the house built yet. We have several reliable contractors that are well know to my wife, having built for her in the past. I currently have natural gas heat, which in Ontario is cheaper than electrical-faster re-supply also. Just trying to find out which is more common and most economical. My creaky body with multiple sports injuries and operations, osteoarthritis in both shoulders demands hot showers to get me moving in the morning.
 

Adrian Bye

Bronze
Jul 7, 2002
2,077
138
0
I have a small electric tank which takes ages to heat up and runs out of water quickly. I currently use an overhead electric showerhead which is 110V (apparently the 220V ones aren't safe). The 220V showerhead I used to have was a good hot shower. The 110V showerhead sucks because the water isn't hot. And I don't like the electricity/water combination even though I think it is generally safe.

I am shortly going to switch to a gas water heater because I want an unlimited supply of REAL hot water. I don't know what kind of gas it is, I assume the gas similar to from the stove. I didn't know about the carbon monoxide issue and hope to find a solution. The posts above are very helpful, thanks.
 

Adrian Bye

Bronze
Jul 7, 2002
2,077
138
0
Bob, thats exactly what I will install in a couple of weeks. My building has free gas too, so I should get unlimited free hot water.
 

Ringo

On Vacation!
Mar 6, 2003
2,823
41
0
We installed elec. in one side of our place with inside on/off switch. Takes about 15 mins. to heat up as long as we have elec. Good for one shower, then wail 15 mins. for the next. Remember to turn off.

Installed LPG, with a two tank hook up/valve. No waiting and no running out. We are very happy with instant hot water. Will replace the elec. to LPG.

We did want to install solar, but found that the run from the roof to the shower was too far and would take too long to get get the hot water and would need another tank near the shower and a small circulating pump. Just to complicated in our case.

Regards, Ringo
 

Skippy1

New member
Feb 21, 2008
302
0
0
Skippy, I think you mean Carbon Monoxide...

It's way more toxic than Carbon Dioxide.

Gregg


Hi Greg yes you are correct Monooxide is for more deadly.

Just as an add on to the debate. The people who have mentioned that the hot water does not last for more than one showere with an electric heater and a tank.....this can be because the tank is too small and or the problem I mentioned about cold water pressure. If you have a higher pressure in the cold system then the hot when you mix the two together like in a mixer shower sometimes the back pressure of the cold water defeats the hot and you get cold water entering the storage tank making all your hot water cold very quickly. You may need to insall non return valves or check valves
You must also check that the tank is not full of calcuim build up which is common after a year or so of use.

Solar power can be very good if you use it to generate electricity just for the heater. I am not sure of the available options here but I know in the states or Europe you can get some great deals on these kits.

Advice on cold water storage tanks on the roof. It always amazes me to see how some people use these. Water stored on the roof in black polytanks can be dangerous.....legionalla is a danger where you get warm water that does not circulate. Only a problem in spray form, like showers. I am surprised there are not more problems here with this. Do not put your cold water tank in full sunlight if possible cover it and do not use a tank that is too big for your daily consumption...remember you must keep the water turning over and not let it get stagnant.

Propane Hot water on demand heaters are ok just install correctly and maintain them they are deadly if left to themselves and poorly maintained.

The small electric add on heaters for the shower are not a good idea even if you install correctly the electrical systems in some houses and apartments are sub standard with little or no Earthing (grounding) in the bathroom areas of the rest of the house for that matter. The use of plastic pipes makes it difficult to bond the water supplies so you risk a shock from a faulty device. And believe me the show is the worse place to experiment with your bodies ability to pass current.

Check your electrical systems to see if you have a residual current device and if not fit one or if yes check that it works........ regularly.


Skippy1

Just for information I am a Counsultant Engineer Qualified and Chartered, Masters degree from University of London and BSc in Electrical Engineering, with 36 years experience should anyone want or need specific advice I would be more than happy to help if I can.
 

suarezn

Gold
Feb 3, 2002
5,823
290
0
55
Just use one of those instant / tankless water heaters as suggested above by Bob Saunders. You can get one at Ochoa (Not Bosch though) for about 12,000 pesos...Electric is no good in The DR because of the electricity problem (and you don't want to put it on your inverter), so no electricity = no hot water. Solar is good for the environment, but expensive and doesn't work as well.
 

Chip

Platinum
Jul 25, 2007
16,772
429
0
Santiago
I'm pretty conversant with the different methods for heating water, and even though I've had plenty of showers with the electric shower head, electricity and water don't mix and I'm a little leery of them. We are planing our move to Jarabacoa sometime in 2009. We already have property but not the house built yet. We have several reliable contractors that are well know to my wife, having built for her in the past. I currently have natural gas heat, which in Ontario is cheaper than electrical-faster re-supply also. Just trying to find out which is more common and most economical. My creaky body with multiple sports injuries and operations, osteoarthritis in both shoulders demands hot showers to get me moving in the morning.

This is understandible, however, a good electric shower head is no more dangerous than having an electric water heater with copper pipes(which we had growing up). Furthermore, in the two years we have had it we have no had any problems. Also, this type can be used with the inverter for short showers. However, as you have noticed, propane is much cheaper and more efficient. I will install one in my house one day but they aren't cheap so that is why I am waiting.
 

Skippy1

New member
Feb 21, 2008
302
0
0
This is understandible, however, a good electric shower head is no more dangerous than having an electric water heater with copper pipes(which we had growing up). Furthermore, in the two years we have had it we have no had any problems. Also, this type can be used with the inverter for short showers. However, as you have noticed, propane is much cheaper and more efficient. I will install one in my house one day but they aren't cheap so that is why I am waiting.

No more dangerous = still dangerous

The electrical systems here are not the same beware the grounding in most installations is almost non-existent Do check it out first before you use this type of heater ......remember dead is forever and no medicare plan will fix it for you!

Skippy1
 

Adrian Bye

Bronze
Jul 7, 2002
2,077
138
0
Skippy1, have you lived in the DR? These units are common here and I've never heard of a problem in 6 years. HB has lived here 40 years and recommends them.
 

Chip

Platinum
Jul 25, 2007
16,772
429
0
Santiago
No more dangerous = still dangerous

The electrical systems here are not the same beware the grounding in most installations is almost non-existent Do check it out first before you use this type of heater ......remember dead is forever and no medicare plan will fix it for you!

Skippy1

Apparently, you didn't read my post, we have been using it for the last two years here in Santiago. Also, I am well aware of the electrical systems here.
 

Skippy1

New member
Feb 21, 2008
302
0
0
Skippy1, have you lived in the DR? These units are common here and I've never heard of a problem in 6 years. HB has lived here 40 years and recommends them.

No I have not lived here long 7 months to be exact...however I have lived in the Caribbean for almost 15 years on and off. I also do have some experience and a good reference for local issues as my wife is Dominican and has lived here all her life except for a few years with me in the Uk and two years in the US.

I am also workng here as a Consultant Engineer trying to develop some initiatives via the Spanish Government on improving the standards of Construction and Installation as part of a work study report commisioned last year.

Advise is all I give you and the 40 year bit carries no cred with me.....
If you seach the internet you will find as many reports as you can read on deaths from electricution from all over the world.
You do not have a monopoly on common sense just because you live in one place for a long time....get out more and see for youself the risks people here take with their lives and those of others.....then tell me that there is no need for good advice.
Maybe you are one of those who thinks overtaking on a blind bend is ok as long as you have the indicator on....?
 

Adrian Bye

Bronze
Jul 7, 2002
2,077
138
0
Hillbilly, unfortunately you have no credibility with Skippy1. :)

Skippy1: if there there are many deaths from electrocution from these electric showers, could you please point us to some links with evidence.
 

Skippy1

New member
Feb 21, 2008
302
0
0
Hillbilly, unfortunately you have no credibility with Skippy1. :)

Skippy1: if there there are many deaths from electrocution from these electric showers, could you please point us to some links with evidence.

The point is not if I can or even if I would..... you are not trolling by any chance?, the point is the risk is greater here due to the substandard installations in a lot of the homes. Sure you can have a personal experience of something that would give you a right to an opinion. However its a bit like someone who has smoked 30 a day for 40 years saying "well smokng never did me any harm" and then recommending it to his friends son.

The risks are real even in the face of your experience.

In The US and all of Europe it is required to submit to standards of installation for very good reason..look at any modern installation and you will find devices like residual current trips and Earth leakage breakers......all because they protect from this risk to life and limb. Maybe you think the whole of the Western world is lagging behind in quality reasoning and ignoring the eveidence...such as your friends experience.

I do not know why I should set aside my 12 years of University education and 36 years of in the field experience just because your friend says "I have had one for 40 years"......

I always wear a seat belt when I drive but as I have never had an accident where it has been the reason for my continued existence I may want to tell others its not needed but common sense would suggest my precautions are sensible.

I would be more inclined to debate this with if you want, If you could give me a reason why you feel the way you do not accept my advice... other than "my pal says its ok".

Do you have any qualifications in this field or are you just an enthusiastic amateur?

Skippy1
 

Lambada

Gold
Mar 4, 2004
9,478
410
0
80
www.ginniebedggood.com
We've had the electric shower head system and..........we're still here :cheeky:. Also had an electric calentadora but we switched to solar for the hot water only and are very happy with it. It halved the electricity bill & we always have hot water (minus a few days when it rained five days non-stop).

Adrianb, I think it best to ignore Skippy's remark about HB. He's very new & despite his 36 years experience in electrical engineering he managed to get himself in this position
http://www.dr1.com/forums/living/73366-edesur-supply-not-supply.html
so............he's still at the stage of needing to adjust his undoubted theoretical & practical experience to the realities of life in the DR. And that adjustment is quite subtle and only comes with time. I guess that's where the 40 years experience comes in handy, eh?;)
And Skippy, go easy on criticising one of the most respected members of DR1. These things usually lead to a pointless fight.