I want to know more about Dominican society...

Does the extranjero middle age man have a degree and some money??? if the answer is yes the daughter can date him as long as she wants, while it appears that she isn't dating a loser everything is good. Yes even High Class DR Society....

HahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHA! You really don't know what you're talking about. Maybe this happens out in el campo or the beach towns, but not in the cities.

As far as "respectable dominicans" womanizing, you will NEVER see them out doing that in the evenings. They go straight home for dinner, every night. They go out at lunchtime or early afternoons, ("I have a business meeting, and with traffic I will go home after I'm done there"). They don't go to caba?as (too sleazy, and too many chances of getting seen by someone they know).

They don't just go to the Clarion hotel behind Plaza Naco, they discreetly maintain a suite there, year-round, and have discreet parking access behind so no one sees them coming or going. Ever tried to get a suite there? The Clarion is always booked, because all of the suites are rented year-round by "respectable dominicanos", jajaja. And one can get there from the center of Santo Domingo in a matter of minutes. Or else they maintain an apartment for their lunchtimes, in a quiet area of town, where they can do whatever they want to with whomever they want to, with no one the wiser.

There are also several discreet lunch "clubs" around Santo Domingo where they can go out for a nice relaxing "lunch". One is (or used to be) right across the street from Cedimat, and one could find leading attorneys and doctors there having lunch (but normally 100% respectable dominicanos in attendance at lunchtime, the gringos are still usually sleeping it off from the night before, and they don't know anything about these clubs anyway. No neon signs out in front, normally just a plain door with a doorman waiting inside the door for admittance or to turn away the curious stranger who heard a rumor.

And they NEVER go to the young lady's home to pick her up. She can make her own way there, or meet him somewhere, or come in the car he furnishes for her use.

As for the young lady explaining this to her family = she has a good job, which explains her car, her nice clothes, the trips to the salon, etc.

"Respectable"

But we mustn't forget that they are a tiny minority of the "respectable" Dominican population. "Good" Dominicans don't stray or play away......




Rio

Please excuse my ignorance, and I certainly do not want or intend to get into a pi**ing contest with either Gringo Carlos or Rio.

However, I do have a legitimate non-pointed question to ask. How is it that the general perception of sexuality in the DR is so much different than what is being stated by GC and Rio? My question is really more about how the perception has been formed.

For example, I have read many books written by Dominican authors, and others, that are quite explicite about sexuality in the DR, and those descriptions tend to lead the reader to believe that there is a very open and accepted system of multiple partners within all strata of Dominican society. Can anyone please explain this apparent discrepency.

catcherintherye said:

Please excuse my ignorance, and I certainly do not want or intend to get into a pi**ing contest with either Gringo Carlos or Rio.

However, I do have a legitimate non-pointed question to ask. How is it that the general perception of sexuality in the DR is so much different than what is being stated by GC and Rio? My question is really more about how the perception has been formed.

For example, I have read many books written by Dominican authors, and others, that are quite explicite about sexuality in the DR, and those descriptions tend to lead the reader to believe that there is a very open and accepted system of multiple partners within all strata of Dominican society. Can anyone please explain this apparent discrepency.

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It's normal for people to gravitate and form relationships with those of similar thoughts and interests. Formal and Informal "clubs" form that way. And within the "club" is the reinforced belief that everyone is like "them".

Tourists just don't get to rub shoulders with the component of Dominican Society that they think doesn't exist.

In the states, I lived for many years I lived a block from the beach in a heavily tourist area, St. Petersburg Beach. We got hundreds of thousands of tourists a year. In all the years I lived there, watching them frolic in the beach arcades, hotels and restaurants, I could count the number of encounters with any of them on one hand. I did, however, have tenants, resort workers, bartenders and waitresses, who did, who interacted with them everyday, partied with them, etc. I had no reason to, they added nothing to my life, and I found their vacation behaviors to be...well...interesting.

Why would normal, respectable Dominicans thing and behave any differently? Why SHOULD they get to know tourists?

Cobra, my question is not about Dominicans and tourists, it is regarding the relationships within Dominican society. I understand the seperation between tourists and locals etc.

i love the way people lump tourists together as a group as if they are all the same - a tourist is someone from another country on holiday....everyone has been one and they are all different..you can even be a tourist in your own country when you go to another town

John Evans said:

i love the way people lump tourists together as a group as if they are all the same - a tourist is someone from another country on holiday....everyone has been one and they are all different..you can even be a tourist in your own country when you go to another town

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While true, It's impossible for respectable Dominicans, those NOT in the tourist trade and who would never live in a tourist area, to get to know every tourist they see. So, over time, generalizations develop.

They see (and hear of) gringos drinking, partying, whoreing around, and generally being obnoxious on "holiday", and lump the miscreants in with the good, fine folk. And they avoid them like the plague.

Very normal and understandable.

Fact is, tourists rarely, if ever, get a peek at the "normal" Dominican society. They see it through the eyes of a tourist, associating with Dominicans who cater to the tourist trade.

catcherintherye said:

How is it that the general perception of sexuality in the DR is so much different than what is being stated by GC and Rio? My question is really more about how the perception has been formed.

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One thing I don't understand here and this is directed at both you catcher and CB - How on Earth can one or two people know what the"general perception" of sexuality is in the DR?

Surely everyone has their own perception of things according to their environment, upbringing, beliefs etc as has been proved by some of the posts yesterday.

For some reason, I have been targetted and labelled as a low class female whore chaser and I would like to strongly refute that. I do believe that a number of posters have their heads firmly buried in the sand on certain matters but I realise that is my opinion but it does come across that way.

The sweeping generalisations on this forum astound me sometimes, especially where "tourists" are concerned. The very word is said with disdain - almost as if we should be ashamed that we do not live in the DR. Hence my posting yesterday - I shouldn't have to defend my ability to have an opinion because I don't live there.

You may agree or disagree with me and I reserve the right to the same with yourselves, but please let us not make this personal and mud slinging. Nor does it mean that either of us is "right" or "wrong". Just different.



Rio

I presume a Dominican from Santiago visiting the beach in Sosua for the day would be seen as a tourist or daytripper

John Evans said:

I presume a Dominican from Santiago visiting the beach in Sosua for the day would be seen as a tourist or daytripper

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Not forgetting the vehicles full of Dominicans who flood into the AI hotels each weekend much to the horror of the "tourists" already staying there.

Rio

but at least we can laugh about it...ahem

YouTube - Benidorm - Pool Clip

Rio,
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you. I am simply asking a question, and as I stated, it is not intended as a pointed question.

With the term "general perception" I meant what one sees in popular literature and other media. I agree it is difficult to determine what is generally perceived and what is not. But for the sake of argument, let's just say it is the perception that is projected by popular media.

I know that even that is somewhat hazy, but bare with me. Even if is only a perception of one author (let's use Junot Diaz as an example), whose writing clearly projects an image of heigthened sexuality in the DR, it is a perception that has generally been internalized by his readers.

So, my question remains, why is there such a disconnect between that perception (no matter how mis-perceived) and what is described by CG and yourself.
Again, and with emphasis, I am not asking this question to provoke anything but an answer.

rio2003 said:

The sweeping generalisations on this forum astound me sometimes, especially where "tourists" are concerned. The very word is said with disdain - almost as if we should be ashamed that we do not live in the DR. Hence my posting yesterday - I shouldn't have to defend my ability to have an opinion because I don't live there.

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PC or not, the "disdain" for the word "tourist" has, to those doing the preceiving, been earned.

Tourists don't understand that they are perceived with a great degree of disdain by many/most Dominicans not related to the tourist industry, and it is up to the individual tourist to disprove that attitude about them.

It is what it is.

John Evans said:

I presume a Dominican from Santiago visiting the beach in Sosua for the day would be seen as a tourist or daytripper

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I doubt it. They are seen in a different "class" than foreigners who descend on the tourist towns. The weekends belong to Dominicans, the weekdays to tourists.

Heck, where I live, Jarabacoa, it's like two different towns. During the week, it's a sleepy burg, and you'll see an occasional foreigner in the stores and restuarants. On the weekends, there is a massive influx of Dominicans by the busload, going to La Confluencia, Salto Jimenoa, the River Club, Gran Jimenoa, the square, etc.

Discuss.....

catcherintherye said:

Rio,
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you. I am simply asking a question, and as I stated, it is not intended as a pointed question.

With the term "general perception" I meant what one sees in popular literature and other media. I agree it is difficult to determine what is generally perceived and what is not. But for the sake of argument, let's just say it is the perception that is projected by popular media.

I know that even that is somewhat hazy, but bare with me. Even if is only a perception of one author (let's use Junot Diaz as an example), whose writing clearly projects an image of heigthened sexuality in the DR, it is a perception that has generally been internalized by his readers.

So, my question remains, why is there such a disconnect between that perception (no matter how mis-perceived) and what is described by CG and yourself.
Again, and with emphasis, I am not asking this question to provoke anything but an answer.

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OK - bristles safely tucked down - calm head on.....
Perhaps... you have made the very point in that you are using literature and the media as a base for a "general perception". I am the first to admit that although educated to quite a high level I have not read a lot of Dominican literature and base my opinions and perceptions on the sights, sounds and people that I meet on my travels. Before anyone picks up on that - I have met people from all levels of Dominican society and not just the "low lifes".
Being of an age where I can no longer be termed a "silly young thing" I think I can trust my instincts and guage a pretty sound overall impression of a person, place or country.
I don't know why I have actually been drawn into the "sex tourism" argument - it is not something I use or support. I am just very aware of it's prevalence in the DR - not just in the low class areas as someone put it - but everywhere. Like the UK though, in the higher class areas it tends to have a much lower profile. I do also think that possibly more of the "respectable" strata of Dominican society behave in the same ways as their lessers than you perhaps believe.
It is a fascinating issue.
Rio

cobraboy said:

PC or not, the "disdain" for the word "tourist" has, to those doing the preceiving, been earned.

Tourists don't understand that they are perceived with a great degree of disdain by many/most Dominicans not related to the tourist industry, and it is up to the individual tourist to disprove that attitude about them.

It is what it is.

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What I see is a "Guilty before being proven Innocent" mentality.

:ermm:

Rio

rio2003 said:

What I see is a "Guilty before being proven Innocent" mentality.

:ermm:

Rio

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Yup. It's not Berkely, rio. Nothing PC about it at all.

I don't make the rules, ~they~ do. It's their country and culture, and I will forever be their guest.

I just observe and do what I can to accept their way of life and culture. I'm not going to change it.

rio2003 said:

I do also think that possibly more of the "respectable" strata of Dominican society behave in the same ways as their lessers than you perhaps believe. It is a fascinating issue.
Rio

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The issue is, indeed, fascinating. And I would really like to hear more about what the OP suggested in the title, Dominican society. I have witnessed, albeit from a distance, a certain aristocratic elite that nonetheless exudes a sensuality that I find unique to the DR. This is not at all a bad or amoral thing, as some might suggest. I think it actually humanizes an all to rigid concept of the upper social and economic class.

On the whole, we 'tourists' only experience the fringes of Dominican society and, frankly, given what I have witnessed of the behavior of a large number of visitors to the DR, I cannot blame them for being a bit distainful. I wonder, though, if this distain can be overcome, or are we ever to be 'ugly Americans', e.g.?