Food For Thought!

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kellyjfisch

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After spending time in the Dominican Republic and now having many aquaintances (sp?) and a few good friends, some resort workers and some not. I am feeling entirely disheartened by the fact that the resorts just cut employment during the off season with no notice to the employees nor telling them when they will be able to return. "We'll call you when we need you" is the response all of my friends received.

I want to know more about this, how can the hotels do this? What are the employment laws, restrictions, are they any?

Are there options for the resort workers when their employment is cut for 1-3 months straight?
 

AnnaC

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Lay offs during slow season, happens in any job and they know it when they are hired.
 

Rocky

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However, there are no laws saying they receive a stipend during their time off?
It may be good for you to understand that any and all resort workers are 100% conscious that low season means layoffs, and they know this even before applying for the job.
This comes as no surprise to them.
You may hear some squawking and complaining from them, as it is a common strategy for getting sympathy and perhaps money out of strangers.

Now... Just imagine that you own a nice B & B in Cape Cod and that you hire some folks for the high season, and you explain to them the time frame that is busy and that they can expect to be laid off at the end of said season, then someone comes along, crying foul and demanding that you pay your employees during low season too, or any type of compensation, for that matter.
Imagine how you would feel.
Imagine the impending bankruptcy.
Imagine the injustice of it all, as you put your heart. soul and money into building the business and making a success out of it, and then some dufus comes along and says that one is not allowed to have seasonal employees, or that they have to be paid all year round, or that that they have to receive some special compensation.
Nobody forces these folks to take these jobs, and they are 100% cognizant of the conditions.
 

rio2003

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At any time.....

Lay offs during slow season, happens in any job and they know it when they are hired.

Absolutely, it can happen at any time - if a hotel is running under occupancy all sorts of "economising" will have to be made. It is quite common for staff to be laid off at short notice and re-hired when things pick up a short time after.

As Rocky quite rightly said - it is all about making it pay.

As the staff members build up their service record and reliability then of course it is unlikely to be these ones that are laid off - it tends to be - last one in, first one out.

Unless of course they have been "problematical" then it might be called suspension!

To re-iterate - they know the score when they are hired in the first place.
Don't fall for any hard luck stories, pleeaassee!

;)

Rio
 

rio2003

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The way the workers are paid when dismissed in the DR, even you would like to get fired once every 6 months here...

Love it PICHARDO - how true! I have often been envious of the "liquidation" system. Coming from the UK where more and more people are being made redundant with pretty poor compensation in a lot of cases, for once, the DR has got it right!

:cheeky:
Rio
 
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J D Sauser

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The way the workers are paid when dismissed in the DR, even you would like to get fired once every 6 months here...

Love it PICHARDO - how true! I have often been envious of the "liquidation" system. Coming from the UK where more and more people are being made redundant with pretty poor compensation in a lot of cases, for once, the DR has got it right!

:cheeky:
Rio


Yeah (and I understand both poster's point), but the resort staff does in most cases not get severance pay.
In most cases, they have a different agreement signed at time of being contracted (and I would suspect many may not have understood what they signed) and the big name resorts may also have a different standing before labor court than other businesses, as they are a substantial part of the country's economy and have powerful "partners".
Some of these chain operated outfits indeed have almost "cart blanche" as to how they can hire and fire staff. They can fire people on the spot on the least suspicion of theft or other inadequate behavior like compulsive laziness, even holding back the last outstanding pay.

This may seem unjust (and in legal terms it most likely is) but with the local labor law and the general tigueraje these operations could probably not function otherwise.

It all boils down to what already many have posted here, that being a resort worker includes being conscious that it can be a seasonal source of income to both the outfit and the staff.

Some operators have or are obviously grossly abusing their privileges and powers... like just recently one close to Rio San Juan, which allegedly not only laid off most of it's staff because of what they argue to be a seasonal slowdown but also still owes pay to many of the laid off... The unofficial message allegedly being that "... if you ever want to work here or in a other place like this again, better let it go!".
It's so bad, resort worker do not want to apply for work there.

Then, as Rocky pointed out, it's not untypical for resort workers to tend to whine on their new found gringo amigos' shoulders. Sometimes it is a calculated pantomime in order to create sympathy and maybe get financial "help". But our local friends also seem to have an interesting mix of fatalism and on the other hand an inherent inability to accept to "see the numbers on the wall". And most will never consider to accept to any fact pointing to their previous knowledge or acceptance of what later tuns out to be their their hardship "... si, me lo dijeron pero lo que yo pensaba era que..." or "... si, esta en el contrato pero yo no lo lei entonce como iba yo saber que..."

What I DO find very unfair, besides obvious abuses, is that many of these very hard working resort workers... room and restaurant staff especially, not only are being inadequately paid but at the same time subjected to hours and random shifts which puts some of them at almost 24/7 disposition of their "employer" without any monetary compensation for these exceptional working hours. If they don't like it, they are history.
On the other hand, many which work well and have learned to make intelligent use of our locals ability to smile genuinely, can make close to the equivalent of their salary or more in tips. Certainly, those who work behind the scenes, don't have that edge and some hotels try to have front line workers share their tips with the rest of the staff... some even strip search them on the way out... but many can prove very imaginative in order to "smuggle" out their qualtos.

... J-D.
 

PICHARDO

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Yeah (and I understand both poster's point), but the resort staff does in most cases not get severance pay.
In most cases, they have a different agreement signed at time of being contracted (and I would suspect many may not have understood what they signed) and the big name resorts may also have a different standing before labor court than other businesses, as they are a substantial part of the country's economy and have powerful "partners".
Some of these chain operated outfits indeed have almost "cart blanche" as to how they can hire and fire staff. They can fire people on the spot on the least suspicion of theft or other inadequate behavior like compulsive laziness, even holding back the last outstanding pay.

This may seem unjust (and in legal terms it most likely is) but with the local labor law and the general tigueraje these operations could probably not function otherwise.

It all boils down to what already many have posted here, that being a resort worker includes being conscious that it can be a seasonal source of income to both the outfit and the staff.

Some operators have or are obviously grossly abusing their privileges and powers... like just recently one close to Rio San Juan, which allegedly not only laid off most of it's staff because of what they argue to be a seasonal slowdown but also still owes pay to many of the laid off... The unofficial message allegedly being that "... if you ever want to work here or in a other place like this again, better let it go!".
It's so bad, resort worker do not want to apply for work there.

Then, as Rocky pointed out, it's not untypical for resort workers to tend to whine on their new found gringo amigos' shoulders. Sometimes it is a calculated pantomime in order to create sympathy and maybe get financial "help". But our local friends also seem to have an interesting mix of fatalism and on the other hand an inherent inability to accept to "see the numbers on the wall". And most will never consider to accept to any fact pointing to their previous knowledge or acceptance of what later tuns out to be their their hardship "... si, me lo dijeron pero lo que yo pensaba era que..." or "... si, esta en el contrato pero yo no lo lei entonce como iba yo saber que..."

What I DO find very unfair, besides obvious abuses, is that many of these very hard working resort workers... room and restaurant staff especially, not only are being inadequately paid but at the same time subjected to hours and random shifts which puts some of them at almost 24/7 disposition of their "employer" without any monetary compensation for these exceptional working hours. If they don't like it, they are history.
On the other hand, many which work well and have learned to make intelligent use of our locals ability to smile genuinely, can make close to the equivalent of their salary or more in tips. Certainly, those who work behind the scenes, don't have that edge and some hotels try to have front line workers share their tips with the rest of the staff... some even strip search them on the way out... but many can prove very imaginative in order to "smuggle" out their qualtos.

... J-D.

Labor Law in the DR doesn't provide loopholes to Hotels, etc...
The time from hiring to firing is what decides who gets what and why...

If the employees followed the hiring pyramid to the tip of the chain, they could get what they deserve presto.

Thing is that most 99% won't get to hire a lawyer (reputable one, not a shark making the rounds by the official buildings) to learn how much they're entitled to...

Most foreign operated biz learned to use the contractor/subcontractor/etc... To offer some layers of legal protection (like a bullet proof vest) that will bounce off most attempts to gain lucrative pay outs to ex-employees. But keep in mind that armor piercing bullets can make holes like Swiss cheese to the vests, the AP bullets in this case being the good competent lawyers...

The general workforce that renders their services at Hotels, etc... Are not the brightest bulbs around... If you catch my drift...

The DR's labor Laws are not a joke and can come back to bite any big white shark in the navel without mercy...

Knowing your rights is something most workers think of a slogan for the upper classes in mahogany laid offices, not themselves...
 

rio2003

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A question to those of you who are oviously more in the know than I am - I have only worked with these guys........

When they are told that their services are not required I was always under the impression that far from being fired they were being temporarily "laid off" and that the employment would resume as and when the hotel became busier.
Rarely have I see anyone accept it with any more than mild disappointment and they are usually back before too long.

For that reason, I have always taken it to be a mutually understood term and condition of the employment - a sort of "subject to demand" service.

Employees that I have seen fired were usually as a result of gross misconduct similar to those we have here in the UK.

Rio
 

planner

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In the hotel and resort industry this is accepted and understood from Day 1!

To the OP - your new "friends" are looking for your sympathy and likely some financial assistance. I suggest you read a lot more threads on DR1 to get yourself educated about your "friends".
 

kellyjfisch

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Mar 30, 2008
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I have looked thoroughly on this site and have read every single post about sanky workers. I don't understand why people are so quick to judge and assume that I am being duped by a sanky. I am aware, aware of my friends and their behaviors. I was just unclear on the laws surrounding the hotels and resort workers.

None of my "friends" have asked me for money. I have known some of them for years and we have had many discussions about sankies.

I am not directing this at anyone, but after reviewing many peoples posts on this forum, while many are very informative, sometimes it seems as though people are so quick to jump to conclusions, and it seems like it is almost done with a taste of bitterness.
 

Rocky

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I have looked thoroughly on this site and have read every single post about sanky workers. I don't understand why people are so quick to judge and assume that I am being duped by a sanky. I am aware, aware of my friends and their behaviors. I was just unclear on the laws surrounding the hotels and resort workers.

None of my "friends" have asked me for money. I have known some of them for years and we have had many discussions about sankies.

I am not directing this at anyone, but after reviewing many peoples posts on this forum, while many are very informative, sometimes it seems as though people are so quick to jump to conclusions, and it seems like it is almost done with a taste of bitterness.

Tough love, maybe, but not bitterness.
None of us know you, so we can only make assumptions, based on the info that you give.
Your lack of knowledge about seasonal industries and it's workers, illustrates a certain naivet?, thus the reasoning that you might also be uninformed about some of the cons that many of the resort workers use to separate good folks from their money.
We like to err on the side of caution, even at the risk of being called bitter.
Heck... I'm as sweet as a peach. :bunny: :bunny:
 

rio2003

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I have looked thoroughly on this site and have read every single post about sanky workers. I don't understand why people are so quick to judge and assume that I am being duped by a sanky. I am aware, aware of my friends and their behaviors. I was just unclear on the laws surrounding the hotels and resort workers.

While I certainly haven't assumed that you were being duped by a sankey/sankeys it is always worth questioning when someone asks for advice, IMO.
Let me explain why......

There are times when advice and opinions are asked that have certain "flag words" that crop up again and again e.g presents, money, fired, hotel worker.

Because a lot of people by nature are genuine and trusting they believe what they are told without question and feel sorry for the other party and want to "help". Whilst not always, there are a lot of times when it is a ruse at best and a downright scam at worst to get money or gifts from the "victim", and it won't be just the one person who it is being done to.....

It is not a weakness on the side of the giver, but a strength unfortunately on the side of the taker and happens a lot.

I am glad that your friends are genuinely friends and ask you for nothing.

There are occasions as well, I should mention, when hints are dropped or information is given that makes a person respond with gifts/money/aid - the same conclusion but the giver doesn't feel that they have been "asked" and therefore it is different.

This is meant to be FYO and not directed at you but you may now see that those of us here that have lived and worked amongst these goings on do try and warn people that there may be skullduggery involved, and understand where we are coming from..... ;)
 

Rocky

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While I certainly.................. ;)
Eloquent and accurate.
We have seen many a complaint about how regular posters allegedly give newbies a hard time, etc, but it is often the OP who does not understand and appreciate the level of care we give, and our collective vast knowledge of all things Dominican.
As you so aptly pointed out, there are key words that set off alarms and we respond accordingly.
Some folks might go through the rest of their lives, thinking that we were just a bunch of rude idiots, when unbeknownst to them, we may have saved them from a very ill fate.
 

krwilson

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Apr 18, 2008
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I do not have any answers to your original question about the hotel/resort issue, kellyjfisch, lo siento.

But I must say that I have several very good Dominican friends. And, yes they are friends, not standing with their hands out or any ulterior motive. One of them was instrumental on another issue in this forum recently. And not a peso changed hands. Does no one else here in this forum have any true Dominican friends??? Perhaps this is a reflection upon ourselves. To gain this vast knowledge............???

Anyway, I just wanted to state to you kellyjfisch, that their are others with true Dominican friends. Sankie can be a possibility but not always the case and you make no mention of this in your initial post.
 

krwilson

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Apr 18, 2008
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What a great picture you paint of the Dominican............... I"ll keep my eyes open from now on for the real goings on ........... not a trustworthy person to be had by your account. Really??!!

As per the warning of everyone, perhaps there should be a sticky on the home page, if ever a Dominican asks for your help...........run.

Where in this thread is there the asking for money, help or whatever from any Dominican??!! And since I have no help for the question that started this thread I will let it go for this is off topic.
 

AnnaC

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Jan 2, 2002
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I have looked thoroughly on this site and have read every single post about sanky workers. I don't understand why people are so quick to judge and assume that I am being duped by a sanky. I am aware, aware of my friends and their behaviors. I was just unclear on the laws surrounding the hotels and resort workers.

None of my "friends" have asked me for money. I have known some of them for years and we have had many discussions about sankies.

I am not directing this at anyone, but after reviewing many peoples posts on this forum, while many are very informative, sometimes it seems as though people are so quick to jump to conclusions, and it seems like it is almost done with a taste of bitterness.


Excuse me but I moved your question into the living forum so that you could have some quality answers to your question and correct me please if I missed it but so far no one in this THREAD has mentioned the S word except you.

Not every single post on this site is about sankies. You need to get out the the sankie forum to see that.

The only thing you were advised was to watch out in case your friends asked for money. We don't know if they have or not and it's up to you if you give them any.

You are now lashing out at people that gave you good answers so there's nothing further to discuss.

Have fun in June
 
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