Is it OK to criticize the DR?

R

RHM

Doctor of Diplomacy
Sep 23, 2002
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I recently received the following email and wanted to share it with you guys to see what you think.

mailbox.jpg


The original post is entitled "Talking Smack about The DR."

Here's the email completely unedited:

"You?re a gringo and talk a lot of smack about the DR. What gives you the right? How would you like it if I (a Dominican) started a blog and trashed the States? If it?s so bad why don?t you leave?"- Rafael in Santiago, Dominican Republic.

Here was my reply:

"Rafael,

I can?t turn on a TV, radio, computer or watch smoke-signals without catching criticism of my country. So, your blog wouldn?t make much of a difference. Sorry.

I?m a firm believer in peoples? right to bitch about anything they want. As for my criticism of the DR, I believe I have 100% earned the right to criticize the Dominican Republic however I wish. I?ve lived, taught high school, worked for a division of the Supreme Court, done charity work, and paid taxes here for almost 6 years. In addition, my wife is Dominican and I have already started the process to become a naturalized Dominican citizen. If that?s not good enough for you then stop reading. I won?t be offended.

As for me leaving the island, I guess I could do that. But then my blogging would be almost exclusively about American politics and Americans would be asking me ?if the U.S. is so bad why don?t you just leave?? So, for right now, the warm, tropical climate, beautiful beaches, and cold beer are winning. Thanks for the suggestion though."

So, am I right or wrong? You be the judge. Not that it'll stop me at all but I'm curious.

Thoughts?

RHM
 
F

Frank the Tank

Gold
May 12, 2005
8,564
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As a resident of any country, you should have the right to criticize what goes on there. After all, it does affect your life and standard of living. I have your back on this one brother.
 
M

M.A.R.

Silver
Feb 18, 2006
3,210
149
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I am sure Rafael will understand now where you are coming from after your explanation, it is true that sometimes we read something and we jump to conclusions withouth really knowing the reasons behind the persons' words.

the Europeans were offended when you said that they are chain smokers and i'm sure the Americans wearing speedos were offended when you called them ugly, so Rafael he writes about different topics and nationalities.

I've been enjoying your articles, thanks.
 
E

Ezequiel

Bronze
Jun 4, 2008
1,801
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RHM said:
I recently received the following email and wanted to share it with you guys to see what you think.

mailbox.jpg


The original post is entitled "Talking Smack about The DR."

Here's the email completely unedited:

"You?re a gringo and talk a lot of smack about the DR. What gives you the right? How would you like it if I (a Dominican) started a blog and trashed the States? If it?s so bad why don?t you leave?"- Rafael in Santiago, Dominican Republic.

Here was my reply:

"Rafael,

I can?t turn on a TV, radio, computer or watch smoke-signals without catching criticism of my country. So, your blog wouldn?t make much of a difference. Sorry.

I?m a firm believer in peoples? right to bitch about anything they want. As for my criticism of the DR, I believe I have 100% earned the right to criticize the Dominican Republic however I wish. I?ve lived, taught high school, worked for a division of the Supreme Court, done charity work, and paid taxes here for almost 6 years. In addition, my wife is Dominican and I have already started the process to become a naturalized Dominican citizen. If that?s not good enough for you then stop reading. I won?t be offended.

As for me leaving the island, I guess I could do that. But then my blogging would be almost exclusively about American politics and Americans would be asking me ?if the U.S. is so bad why don?t you just leave?? So, for right now, the warm, tropical climate, beautiful beaches, and cold beer are winning. Thanks for the suggestion though."

So, am I right or wrong? You be the judge. Not that it'll stop me at all but I'm curious.

Thoughts?

RHM
Click to expand...


Constructive criticism is always good, but not the type of criticism that some bigots in this forum like to spew.
 
Squat

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
2,241
168
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This Speedo-wearing buddy of yours confirms it is ok to criticize the DR ;)

Hey, wth, if we are resident, why can't we state our views openly ?
 
Q

qgrande

Bronze
Jul 27, 2005
805
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I notice in some of the responses the idea that criticism for those with residency or processes towards citizenship are OK implying that criticism from those without residency or people who do not live in the country is not so OK.

I would say that any criticism if just, balanced, tactfull and based on knowledge of the situation - especially if combined with self-criticism - should be OK, whether from someone with residency or not. For instance there's a British researcher (member of this forum) writing a PhD on Dominican National Parks; constructive criticism from him on that topic would surely be welcome.

BTW Randall strikes me as someone with a healthy dose of self-criticism to make me take his criticism of others more serious; and comments like in the cited email less serious.
 
L

Lambada

Gold
Mar 4, 2004
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Ezequiel said:
Constructive criticism is always good, but not the type of criticism that some bigots in this forum like to spew.
Click to expand...

I agree that expats shouldn't leave their critical faculties behind when moving here, no matter how long ago it was. But I also agree that motivation is an important factor - criticising 'from love' in order to shed light on something or to push for improvement or as an act of solidarity with locals criticising the same thing is OK in my book. Criticising to belittle is not. The former is to help someone else, the latter is to shore up the failing ego of the criticiser. And whilst it is abundantly clear why some expats have the need to belittle, it is still very hurtful particularly for expat Dominicans, many of who are economic refugees & would give their eye teeth to move back if only they could.
 
M

Mr. Lu

Bronze
Mar 26, 2007
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jmmm...

RHM said:
What gives you the right?
Click to expand...

Aside from your concise answer, Mr. Gringo, what does gives you the right to make any comments about the US or the DR? Other than the fact that you live here, you have "no" stake in this country so therefore your criticism could be construed as negative and ultimately not bring anything positive to the table. In the end you might be very removed from the "realities" of this country because of your background, limiting the scope of your criticisms. Is this a possibility?

Just stirring the pot a bit.




Mr. Lu
 
R

RHM

Doctor of Diplomacy
Sep 23, 2002
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Mr. Lu said:
Aside from your concise answer, Mr. Gringo, what does gives you the right to make any comments about the US or the DR? Other than the fact that you live here, you have "no" stake in this country so therefore your criticism could be construed as negative and ultimately not bring anything positive to the table. In the end you might be very removed from the "realities" of this country because of your background, limiting the scope of your criticisms. Is this a possibility?

Mr. Lu
Click to expand...

No.

I have plenty at stake, including an extended family and hundreds of kids I've taught over the last few years (many of whom I am still close with). Also remember that my kids will be 1/2 Dominican with most of the Dominican side of the family residing in the country so they will always have direct connections.

:)

And if living, working, contributing, marrying, and becoming a citizen isn't enough then I am at a loss for words (write down the date it won't happen again).

Nice try at stirring the pot, now it's time to leave the kitchen. :)

RHM
 
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E

Ezequiel

Bronze
Jun 4, 2008
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RHM said:
No.

I have plenty at stake, including an extended family and hundreds of kids I've taught over the last few years (many of whom I am still close with).

:)

And if living, working, contributing, marrying, and becoming a citizen isn't enough then I am at a loss for words (write down the date it won't happen again).

Nice try at stirring the pot, now it's time to leave the kitchen. :)

RHM
Click to expand...

I agree that you do have a lot of stake in criticizing the DR, as you live, work, contribute and have a family connection there, and are taking a very important step by becoming a Dominican Citizen :bunny:, plus you are going to be able to voice your opinion/criticism at the poll too, good for you, you are showing that you care.
 
M

Mr. Lu

Bronze
Mar 26, 2007
1,091
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?

RHM said:
No.

I have plenty at stake, including an extended family and hundreds of kids I've taught over the last few years (many of whom I am still close with). Also remember that my kids will be 1/2 Dominican with most of the Dominican side of the family residing in the country so they will always have direct connections.

:)

And if living, working, contributing, marrying, and becoming a citizen isn't enough then I am at a loss for words (write down the date it won't happen again).

Nice try at stirring the pot, now it's time to leave the kitchen. :)

RHM
Click to expand...


Are you implying that you now are, by default, Dominican? Is that the theme I am sensing. At the end aren't your comments and criticisms a product of a framework that has embedded the idea that nothing compares to life in the US? So isn't this a limitation?



My kitchen and you owe me chicken!! I have witnesses.


Mr. Lu
 
bachata

bachata

Aprendiz de todo profesional de nada
Aug 18, 2007
5,355
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Some time I see some people in this forum criticizing the way we drive in the DR. But here in the state are a lot of crazy drivers, this morning one girl was going to crash with me driving in the wrong way taking a shortcut into her office's parking deck.

JJ.
 
R

RHM

Doctor of Diplomacy
Sep 23, 2002
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Mr. Lu said:
Are you implying that you now are, by default, Dominican? Is that the theme I am sensing. At the end aren't your comments and criticisms a product of a framework that has embedded the idea that nothing compares to life in the US? So isn't this a limitation?



My kitchen and you owe me chicken!! I have witnesses.


Mr. Lu
Click to expand...

No - to everything you've said.

I reserve the right to criticize anything and everything I please. It's called freedom. It's just in this case, I feel I have at least a little bit of what you young pups call "street cred." Word, yo.

I'll buy you your chicken and "pure de papa" this week. Friday works for me. PM me if it works for you.

RHM
 
J

joerusso

Guest
perhaps they need to post a sign with a 15,000 peso's fine for tampering with Government mail. Also, put a garbage can next to the mailbox and mark it garbage here, letters next door to garbage can--the 3rd world needs to change..and it starts with its own people..
 
R

RHM

Doctor of Diplomacy
Sep 23, 2002
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www.thecandidacy.com
joerusso said:
perhaps they need to post a sign with a 15,000 peso's fine for tampering with Government mail. Also, put a garbage can next to the mailbox and mark it garbage here, letters next door to garbage can--the 3rd world needs to change..and it starts with its own people..
Click to expand...

And who, may I ask, is offering this advice?

Are you Dominican or a foreigner living in the DR?

RHM
 
J

joerusso

Guest
RHM said:
And who, may I ask, is offering this advice?

Are you Dominican or a foreigner living in the DR?

RHM
Click to expand...

I'm from the the states and just like you earned the right to speak out. I been here a about 2 years now and If some of the people could change their ways, this would be a much better place to live in. I live next door to a large apartment building. I pay for my garbage pick up, the owner of this apartment building decided to put doors over their garbage area to protect it from the stray dogs. Well guess what? They now come outside and throw their garbage in my can because they are too lazy to open the doors to their own garbage. My 1 can gets full within 8 hours---enough!

P.S My garbage can is on my side of the property line---it takes effect to come over. I like your photo!
 
BermudaRum

BermudaRum

Bronze
Oct 9, 2007
1,223
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Help needed in critizing the DR!

RHM said:
No - to everything you've said.

I reserve the right to criticize anything and everything I please. It's called freedom. It's just in this case, I feel I have at least a little bit of what you young pups call "street cred." Word, yo.

I'll buy you your chicken and "pure de papa" this week. Friday works for me. PM me if it works for you.

RHM
Click to expand...

RHM,
Maybe this is not the right tread to post this. However after reading your OP and further I need to find some advice from only those who have experiences in living and accepting to a certain degree the way of life here .
I have an amigo here in DR that has lived/retired here for a number of years. Starting the past year he constantly criticizes everything about the DR as if everything should be done just like his home country. He is now at a point that his health is being affected. I know some will say that he should just leave if he is so unhappy, however, I say no. I do know he loves the water, sun and the financial benefits to name a few that the DR offers. However I often think if he could find a way to associate with more Dominicans in various locations as oppose to exclusively those that are from his own country, this may change some of his thinking. I've even told him he needs to travel around for days at a time and see this vast country they call DR. Again, I only get the no answer, or I something else to do!
In addition, he has known this beautiful Dominican lady for a couple of years now, and even according to her it's almost impossible for them to succeed. Exclusively he will only take her out where Gringos are to be found, as though the Dominican scene would not be rewarding socially for them. Many have seen that she is the women for him, he unfortunately wants everything here like he knows back home, including his lady. Don't tell me I'm waisting my time with him because he is a good friend of mine, but I am at my ends at the moment. :confused:
 
E

Ezequiel

Bronze
Jun 4, 2008
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BermudaRum said:
RHM,
Maybe this is not the right tread to post this. However after reading your OP and further I need to find some advice from only those who have experiences in living and accepting to a certain degree the way of life here .
I have an amigo here in DR that has lived/retired here for a number of years. Starting the past year he constantly criticizes everything about the DR as if everything should be done just like his home country. He is now at a point that his health is being affected. I know some will say that he should just leave if he is so unhappy, however, I say no. I do know he loves the water, sun and the financial benefits to name a few that the DR offers. However I often think if he could find a way to associate with more Dominicans in various locations as oppose to exclusively those that are from his own country, this may change some of his thinking. I've even told him he needs to travel around for days at a time and see this vast country they call DR. Again, I only get the no answer, or I something else to do!
In addition, he has known this beautiful Dominican lady for a couple of years now, and even according to her it's almost impossible for them to succeed. Exclusively he will only take her out where Gringos are to be found, as though the Dominican scene would not be rewarding socially for them. Many have seen that she is the women for him, he unfortunately wants everything here like he knows back home, including his lady. Don't tell me I'm waisting my time with him because he is a good friend of mine, but I am at my ends at the moment. :confused:
Click to expand...


If he is from the UK, tell him the Uk have many islands here in the caribbean that he can move to (UK virgin Islands, Turks and caicos and Cayman island), and don't forget Bermuda.

If he is from the U.S., tell him the U.S. have many islands here in the caribbean too, that he can move to (Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands)

If he is from Canada, i feel sorry for him, Canada doesn't have any caribbean territories :rolleyes: so he will either has to move back to his freezer or stop complaining.

The DR is what it is, he knew that before he moved. The DR is a third world country, with third world problems, it can be a paradise for some and a nightmare to others, he at least can leave if he so choose to.
 
L

Lambada

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BermudaRum said:
Don't tell me I'm waisting my time with him because he is a good friend of mine, but I am at my ends at the moment. :confused:
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There was a time when I tried to help people like this, too. I spent hours trying to 'interpret' one culture for the other. But...........no more! There are more important things to do, and people to help who will really benefit, so the whingers and moaners and I no longer pass the time of day ;). You see, some of them actually get their psychological 'payoff' from the moaning itself. I don't know if this applies to your friend or not. But..........I'm sure you have other friends. If you want to read up on it google 'why don't you, yes but'.

Sorry, Scandall, if I deviated.
 
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