Expat Residents With Neighbourhood Problems

Lambada

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Can anyone help me with this? I am curious as to why expats whom, if they had had a neighbourhood or community issue in their country of origin, would take the appropriate action (maybe for example by forming a committee, getting opinions, deciding on action & taking the agreed action) yet when they move to the DR they act as if it is someone else's problem? This results in much whingeing & moaning, unfair criticism of those who try to get something done and behaviour which lacks a sense of mature adult responsibility.

Is it that they are unsure of their ability to adjust to life in the DR? Is it that they are jealous of or need to scapegoat the more action minded people who display a sense of community responsibility? Is it that they are living in the wrong country? Should they perhaps pack up & go 'home'?

I am not citing any particular examples here: I am interested in hearing views on the general topic. Why does moving to the DR exacerbate the immature dependency of some residents whilst it encourages the 'can-do' ability of others?

Thank you for your time. :)
 
Mar 2, 2008
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Lambada,

I imagine everyone has their own take on this, and I'm not qualified to give a definative response.

But I have a sense that people come to the DR for a wide variety of reasons, and one of those reasons might be that they didn't get along with a community where they came from, and they act exactly the same way in the DR. They basically wouldn't be happy anywhere, and they want to spread their unhappiness. Misery loves company.

Another reason for people to live in the DR is so that they can maximize their assets, and feel like they are even higher on the food chain than they were back home. In order to feel really special, they find reasons to take pot shots at others, and what better easier group to pot shots at than the people who actually do something.
 

CFA123

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I 'think' catcher hit on a couple of the reasons, plus i think there are
  • owners from different cultures mixing in the same 'expat' neighborhood with different expectations of what a neighborhood should be
  • some absentee owners who are less inclined to worry about certain things because they don't live it every day
  • some people had their monthly budget figured out but failed to take into account the 'extras' that come up to maintain a community here (roads, new well pump, etc) to which they may need to contribute
  • and some generally nasty people :)
 
Aug 21, 2007
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It is a good question, Lambada. I believe all the possibilities above are valid.

I also know that there are some North Coast communities that are very pro-active and have involved ex-pat residents. Is it everybody? Of course not. But here in Perla Marina, where I live, we can't be bothered with those who choose not to contribute- even to the association. We take action, make plans for progress, and as we move ahead, we hope the others will recognize a good thing and come on board.

This is not to say that we don't have problems. We just try to work together toward solutions.

I bet there are other communities like this here in the DR. There is much bad press with complaints about community problems. Maybe it is time to change the focus to the ex-pat communities/development who are working together and finding successful solutions.

Lindsey
 
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Lambada

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Interesting comments so far all from thinking people, thank you.

I bet there are other communities like this here in the DR. There is much bad press with complaints about community problems. Maybe it is time to change the focus to the ex-pat communities/development who are working together and finding successful solutions. Lindsey

You could well be right but I also believe in supporting the unsung heros & heroines, those who would never dream of blowing their own trumpets, yet who quietly work away at resolutions whilst having to endure unbelievable flack from people whom I wouldn't choose to pass the time of day with. If that goodwill they have gets eroded then there will be precious few left to do the work. I admire their patience. It's one reason why I would never choose to live near foreigners - too much back-biting, ingratitude & childish criticism of the guys who really shoulder the burden.

Please keep the thoughts coming folks.............
 
Aug 21, 2007
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Interesting comments so far all from thinking people, thank you.

I also believe in supporting the unsung heros & heroines, those who would never dream of blowing their own trumpets, yet who quietly work away at resolutions whilst having to endure unbelievable flack from people whom I wouldn't choose to pass the time of day with. ...........

YES! I DO agree! While there are unsung heros in every community, in those communities where there are problems, or little support or only support in good times, the individuals doing all the work with no gratitude or acclaim are more heroic than the leaders of communities where the system is working.

These individuals are in a thankless position. How to support them, especially if you don't live in the community, or ESPECIALLY if you DO?

1. Phone them.

2. Ask how you can help remediate the problem.

3. Ask for specific information before retelling rumors.

4. Be careful how and what you tell those who don't live in the community. Exaggerated or incorrect or inflamed information will not lead towards solutions. Nor will it increase your property value. Anyone can complain. But that only makes things worse.

5. Instead, get the facts from the source and help out by sharing the facts within the community.

6. If you are not willing to help out physically or monetarily, then simply call the community leader and offer words of support.

7. And a quote from a good friend. "Take the high road." (and no pun intended!)

Lindsey
 

SASDomRep

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Apr 1, 2008
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Great thread

I 'think' catcher hit on a couple of the reasons, plus i think there are
  • owners from different cultures mixing in the same 'expat' neighborhood with different expectations of what a neighborhood should be
  • some absentee owners who are less inclined to worry about certain things because they don't live it every day
  • some people had their monthly budget figured out but failed to take into account the 'extras' that come up to maintain a community here (roads, new well pump, etc) to which they may need to contribute
  • and some generally nasty people :)

Yes there are some very nasty evil people here. But one of the worst abuse of neighbourhood goodwill is certain people in some complexes/area that refuse to contribute to the communal guard service we operate. *** SPAM - Any more and your account will be deleted *** Look at what Judy did - the fantastic repairs to the La Mulata road, but so many didnt pay and so there wasnt enough money to tarmac all of it and now after the last storm the road is as bad as ever except for the section that was tarmaced
 
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CFA123

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But one of the worst abuse of neighbourhood goodwill is certain people in some complexes/area that refuse to contribute to the communal guard service we operate.

That's another point I started to make. Communities that begin with established rules that include expectations of owners, clarity of fees, enforceable penalties for those that don't abide, and a voting method specified to add/change/remove rules - they seem to be able to 'keep it together' better. People know coming in what they have to do, and there are ways to enforce if they don't.

The challenge really comes where the rules never really existed. ProCab in Cabarete comes to mind. Getting 100% agreement after the fact to put together community rules/regulations is very difficult. Getting everyone to contribute cash when there are no enforceable rules... you're very lucky to get that to happen - in DR or elsewhere.

Reminds me of the sage advice to rent before you buy.
 

SASDomRep

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Apr 1, 2008
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That's another point I started to make. Communities that begin with established rules that include expectations of owners, clarity of fees, enforceable penalties for those that don't abide, and a voting method specified to add/change/remove rules - they seem to be able to 'keep it together' better. People know coming in what they have to do, and there are ways to enforce if they don't.

The challenge really comes where the rules never really existed. ProCab in Cabarete comes to mind. Getting 100% agreement after the fact to put together community rules/regulations is very difficult. Getting everyone to contribute cash when there are no enforceable rules... you're very lucky to get that to happen - in DR or elsewhere.

Reminds me of the sage advice to rent before you buy.

Im not sure I agree with the methods they are using in PROCAB. The guards have been instructed not to open the barrier for those that dont pay, even verbally abusing some residents. Apparently they have been instructed to do this by the committee head. This is not the correct way to deal with it.
 

Lambada

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Maybe I was a little hasty about the 'thinking people' :cheeky:. I had hoped that people would not cite individual posters by name, particularly not without said individuals permission. Even if positive comments are made that can act as bait to those wanting to post negative comments & that has to be the quickest way to get a thread closed. I would therefore request that readers ignore individual reference to a poster in post 7. Most people I think understood that my intention was to examine issues: the reasons for the behaviour I described & hopefully enumerate some solutions, but NOT to cite individuals. Naming communities is fine, naming individuals is a different matter. Nor did I intend to have the thread contaminated by spam but I see that Robert has already dealt with that, thank you Robert.

Now on to better things, MUCH better things. Thank you LindseyKaufman for your most helpful, positive solutions. They're the sort of thing which might be incorporated into the Welcome Pack for new residents at Residencial Bloggsville. Which begs the question: are there 'Welcome Packs' for new residents in any residential communities? And if there aren't, how are expectations of community conduct conveyed to new residents? Condos usually have condo rules and regulations, but what of a residential community of individual home owners?

I know, I know, some of these things ought to be common sense but we all know what they say about common sense ;).

I live in a Dominican residential community where most of the residents have been living for years and years. No 'Welcome Packs' required :cheeky:. We have an active Junta de Vecinos with separate sub-groups for each set of a few streets. No friction on community issues: they are discussed, decisions made and carried out as quickly as other forces permit.

Do the more foreigner occupied residential communities have Juntas de Vecinos?

YES! I DO agree! While there are unsung heros in every community, in those communities where there are problems, or little support or only support in good times, the individuals doing all the work with no gratitude or acclaim are more heroic than the leaders of communities where the system is working.

These individuals are in a thankless position. How to support them, especially if you don't live in the community, or ESPECIALLY if you DO?

1. Phone them.

2. Ask how you can help remediate the problem.

3. Ask for specific information before retelling rumors.

4. Be careful how and what you tell those who don't live in the community. Exaggerated or incorrect or inflamed information will not lead towards solutions. Nor will it increase your property value. Anyone can complain. But that only makes things worse.

5. Instead, get the facts from the source and help out by sharing the facts within the community.

6. If you are not willing to help out physically or monetarily, then simply call the community leader and offer words of support.

7. And a quote from a good friend. "Take the high road." (and no pun intended!)

Lindsey
 

BushBaby

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That's another point I started to make. Communities that begin with established rules that include expectations of owners, clarity of fees, enforceable penalties for those that don't abide, and a voting method specified to add/change/remove rules - they seem to be able to 'keep it together' better. People know coming in what they have to do, and there are ways to enforce if they don't.

The challenge really comes where the rules never really existed. ProCab in Cabarete comes to mind. Getting 100% agreement after the fact to put together community rules/regulations is very difficult. Getting everyone to contribute cash when there are no enforceable rules... you're very lucky to get that to happen - in DR or elsewhere.

Reminds me of the sage advice to rent before you buy.
This begs another question CFA .......... when a property is SOLD within a community that already has a community set of rules, fees & an upstanding committee, are these rules & regulations advised to the prospective buyer PRIOR to the sale being agreed? Are the Realtors kept informed of the rules & regulations? Does the committee ensure that the SELLER & his/her lawyer pass these rules & regulations on to the buyer BEFORE the contract is drawn up & signed? If a buyer signs a contract that states he/she has READ the rules & regulations of the community owners & that he/she agrees to those rules & regulations, then there can be no griping afterwards. Regrettably, for the sake of ensuring a sale, this aspect could be 'overlooked' by the seller & then the buyer could have an understandable gripe against the community!

I hope most community committees have thought of these points & introduced a clause into the rules & regulations that demand such information being passed on to the prospective buyer. ~ Grahame.
 

beeza

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Maybe it's because these so called "communities" are another form of repression. Where a group of like minded individuals with such high moral standards and regard to such ethics as "health and safety" and "political correctness" impose their will on others without referendum.

In my opinion it is the failing of my home country, England. The country is run by do good busy bodies who think that for the good of the planet you are only allowed one small dustbin of rubbish to be collected every week. You have to wash your recycled waste so the binmen don't get dirty.

You are not allowed to climb a ladder to clean your windows.

The police are focusing on catching speeding motorists rather than rounding up gangs of knife wielding ferrule hooded youths.

Kids can't have a nativity play at Christmas because it offends the Muslims.

The so-called civilised society has gone mad. The lunatics are running the asylum!

Since Tony Blair was elected there are now over 1500 laws that can permit a complete stranger into your home.

Here's another example: A friend of mine's father is a councillor in his local council in Kent. In this particular area is an old school that has been closed and listed for demolition to make way for a new school. Even though the buildings are empty, the council are legally obliged to leave the lights on in case any intruders that enter at night don't fall over and hurt themselves!

I am not making this up!!

I decided to vote with my feet and leave my home country.

I have bought my own house on the North coast and live in a neighbourhood predominately inhabited with expats. I have integrated into the community, but I will not be browbeaten into agreeing into some halfbaked ideas drawn up by someone who has lived here longer than me and has more experience of this country.

Why, because I don't have to. And that's what I love about this country. You are free of the shackles and repression of society.

Please don't misunderstand me by thinking that I am a free thinking radical hippy type antidisestablishmentaraist. I am just a normal intelligent bloke who wants to live life without being told what to do by idiots!

Yes the road in my vicinidad is riddled with pot holes. We get the occasional burglary (myself included). Yes I bitch and moan about it. But then I open a bottle of Presidente, sit on my terrace watch the sun go down and all those problems go away!
 
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MikeFisher

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hey Lambada,
don't worry about the posts number #7 and #9,
like you anyways mentioned Robert took partly care of it (thanks to the really great working DR admin stuff compared to other forums where you have to wait days for a result), and the regulars anyways know how to ignore such.
this is a interesting thread and i think we will make it a long one.
at least the theme is worth it.
sure it is handled from spot to spot different,
my north coast experience is far gone, soi bring in just my actual one here on the east coast in PC from the last 13 years, and just mine and only for our residence.
i live with wifey and son (5) and doughter(12) on the beautiful ocean front of this side of the island.
the residence is a small one, around 50 appartments over all of different sizes.
we are a mixture of everything,
i am myself german with dominican wife,
i know in the same residence 2 more germans(both mostly 'solo'), 5 dominican couples, 10 dominican /expats mixed families, 1 haitian family in the Villa right aside, many Italians(the residence is Italian owned, but surprisingly not italian dominated), we have a great aministration, no association(sp??), the very most of the people live here in the residence since a long while, changes are rare, but til today i think i don't know half of the neighbours.
yes, i know most of the kidies because i am with my own boy nearly every day on the beach and he presents me his friends/neighbours, ha ha, yeap, even a 5 years olds reminds ya sometimes about what you missed yourself since a while just for 'working working working', but we are not organized in any way, and i do not see a reason for such. we have within the residence our rules, they've been made long before i moved in myself, like at what time of the morning the garbage has to be out to get collected, what is a reasonable noise level of your music/TV/friends visit, how to behave when having a 'fun in the sun' afternoon on the 'nearly private beach' with friends.
none of those rules ever semed 'strange' to me, because til today they are very close to what my parents at home teached me about 'behavior in the world'.
i am just a grown up country boy and many may think different to me.
but i def would move out of here the day they start to organize the spot like a "province/gobernor's place' or such, i would hate that.
we have a bit louder 'birthday parties' aso once in a while,
yes, that can bother when you have to get up 5AM like i do often,
but he..,
everybody is invited,
everybody takes care of each other,
so once in a while i don't get my needed sleep.
so what???
it has been stolen by the neighbour who threw last sunday afternoon for 2hrs in front of my house the baseball on the beach for my son while i turned over some fish filets on the BBQ.
should i say "hey Roberto, let's make a asociation" to stop your noise"???
hell,
when people need such to live near to each others i think they stopped living a while ago, or never lived.
when you plan your final destin(who knows how often we will change before reaching the final?), just check who's there and how their way of life goes, if you don't like it you are far from your destin, go on searching.
just the 2 cents of the fisherman
to the theme of organisations.
sorry, but i hate them for their details.
Mike
 
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MikeFisher

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Beeza,
iwrote my post before i saw your contribution to the topic.
i totally agree.
we are free people living together in small communities,
we don't need an other additional gobernor or such,
we just need to be the well behaved people we are to live near each others and sometimes oversee the faults of each others.
the roads in front of my home are not always the best,
so what???
once in a while we chat over that fu.. pothole(sp??) over some beers on the beach and a couple days later we have some packs of cement on the spot and pay some guys to tab that stuff, even that it is a public road which should not be our prob to care about. well, i care about my car's bumpers riding over them and feel much better knowing that they are closed now.
such a action costs less than some of us spend for the beers on a saturday night on the road.
find the community where the most people are thinking nearly like you, and you get it done.
nobody's perfect,
but fu.. the ones who never did a thing at home and think they come to the island with a few bucks to be a 'gobernor' of the Barrio.
Mike
 
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Mar 2, 2008
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Beeza and Mike did a great job of summing up my additional thoughts. The idea that people can live and work together with some shared understanding of expected community behavior without an overabundance of rules and regulations. Knowing how to be neighborly without dictating how your neighbor lives is fundamental in a functioning community.
I like the feeling of independence, and I don't want anyone telling me how to live my life. For that reason I am more accepting of other peope's life-styles, and I think the concept of mutual respect and a "live and let live" attitude goes a long way to ensure a cooperative environment.
The Golden Rule comes to mind, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
 

CFA123

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For that reason I am more accepting of other peope's life-styles, and I think the concept of mutual respect and a "live and let live" attitude goes a long way to ensure a cooperative environment.
The Golden Rule comes to mind, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

'And they all lived happily ever after.'
 
Aug 21, 2007
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If you go back to Lambada's original post on this thread, you will see that she was not necessarily writing about neighborhood rules or associations. I believe she was referring to issues that arise in a neighborhood and residents working together towards a solution as opposed to complaining, back biting, passing on rumors, etc.

Secondly, I believe that she was also referring to and questioning those who give no credit or respect to the individuals who ARE working to solve neighborhood problems, whether they be safety and security, bad roads, stray, viscous dogs, etc. or those individuals who work to improve neighborhoods by clearing overgrown lots, putting in speed bumps, etc.

Nowhere did I read in Lambada's post a concern about FOLLOWING association rules or a need for rules.

Correct me if I am misunderstanding something.

Lindsey
 

beeza

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I see your point Lindsey, but it's about points of view and mutual respect.

Some may see for the use of one of your examples that installing a speed bump is a good thing. Let's say that I was a single person who didn't want children playing outside my home and owned a low slung Ferrari (I wish!). Then along comes some nanny state do gooder who installs a speed bump outside my home. Has there been a study carried out that unambiguously states that speed bumps save lives? There were no speed bumps around when I was a child and I never once got run over!

I now have noisy children playing outside my house and I can no longer drive my Ferrari without damaging it on the speed bump.

Am I going to be graciously thankful for the person who took the time and effort to make their own lives more comfortable? That person has a warm fuzzy feeling inside thinking that they have done a good job and wants recognition for it.

Are these types of people only out for altruistic gain? I don't think so.