Domincan language eccentricities or correct Spanish?

Chip · Oct 3, 2008

Here are a couple of things that I wonder if they are local eccentricities of Dominican Spanish or actually correct Spanish.

1. Putting the subject after the verb, eg.:
El lo quiso asi, Dios.

2. Use of a uno (very prevelant here in Cibao), eg.:
Que ese tipo no deja a uno hablar.

3. Use of a lo instead of despues in sentences where time is the subject, eg:

#1: A que hora lo puedo recoger el carro mio?
#2: a lo cinco horas.

4. Use of pronoun and subject, (too repetetive) eg.
A que hora lo puedo recoger el carro mio?

5. Overuse of subjunctive, eg.:

#1: Que hay de comer hoy?
#2: Lo que tu quieras

Feel free to add other examples and I would really appreciate input from some of our native speakers.

Mr. Lu · Oct 3, 2008

Though I am not a Spanish expert I find your examples interesting.

In your first example the Dios seems repetitive, though I have never heard this in conversation or in written Spanish. Is this common where you live, or did you hear this in passing?

In your second example, the "uno" is equivalent to "one's self" or "one" in English. It's a pronoun. It is very common in Dominican Spanish.

In your third example, (#1) it is a repetitive phrase, as the "Lo" replaces "el carro" in speech and in this case is a acting as a definite article. Second part of that (#2) confuses me. Was that a typo (instead of las instead of lo)? In that case it would be correct.

Once again in your 4th example, it is repetitive. The definite article "lo" would replace "el carro mio."

As per the subjunctive, it is a dying grammatical form in many of the Romance languages and English as well, though this example seems correct.

Once again I post as a matter of perception, but am also interested in hearing from more knowledgeable types on the board.

Mr. Lu

Sholly24 · Oct 3, 2008

Chip said:
Here are a couple of things that I wonder if they are local eccentricities of Dominican Spanish or actually correct Spanish.

1. Putting the subject after the verb, eg.:
El lo quiso asi, Dios.

2. Use of a uno (very prevelant here in Cibao), eg.:
Que ese tipo no deja a uno hablar.

3. Use of a lo instead of despues in sentences where time is the subject, eg:

#1: A que hora lo puedo recoger el carro mio?
#2: a lo cinco horas.

4. Use of pronoun and subject, (too repetetive) eg.
A que hora lo puedo recoger el carro mio?

5. Overuse of subjunctive, eg.:

#1: Que hay de comer hoy?
#2: Lo que tu quieras

Feel free to add other examples and I would really appreciate input from some of our native speakers.

Based on the question, Lo que tu quieras is very correct spanish as a response. Basically it means whatever you want. It is correct particularly if the available options (meals available) have not been determined by both parties.

Sholly

Norma Rosa · Oct 3, 2008

Chip said:
Here are a couple of things that I wonder if they are local eccentricities of Dominican Spanish or actually correct Spanish.

1. Putting the subject after the verb, eg.:
El lo quiso asi, Dios.

2. Use of a uno (very prevelant here in Cibao), eg.:
Que ese tipo no deja a uno hablar.

3. Use of a lo instead of despues in sentences where time is the subject, eg:

#1: A que hora lo puedo recoger el carro mio?
#2: a lo cinco horas.

4. Use of pronoun and subject, (too repetetive) eg.
A que hora lo puedo recoger el carro mio?

5. Overuse of subjunctive, eg.:

#1: Que hay de comer hoy?
#2: Lo que tu quieras

Feel free to add other examples and I would really appreciate input from some of our native speakers.

Hola primo.

#1 -It is not clear to me. The sentence has a pronoun as subject (?l ) followed by a verb (quiso). If the noun (Di?s) was stated (which normally doesn?t happen) it was probably for clarification or emphasis, as in ?l lo quiso as?. ?Di?s! But, normally, people do not talk like that.

#2 - Correct and used world-wide. Es que ese tipo no deja a uno hablar. (Ese tipo no deja a nadie hablar.) It needs the personal ?a? as in A Margarita ese tipo no la deja hablar.

#3 - Incorrect. That never happens.
?A qu? hora puedo recoger mi carro? ?A qu? hora puedo recogerlo?
A las cinco. (You might hear a la, but never a lo.)

#4. Redundancy might occur for clarification. In your sentence, the speaker might pause after recoger. ?A qu? hora lo puedo recoger . . . el carro mio? (mi carro)

#5 - How is the subjunctive overused in your example? The answer calls for it.

Norma

DaniJ · Oct 3, 2008

Chip said:
Feel free to add other examples .

When I was there, I remember there was often a lot of extra "stuff" added to sentences, words that wouldn't necessarily make or break the sentence.

For instance, a student of mine asking me:
"Pero profe, como que tu te llamas?" - "que" isn't needed. "Tu" is pretty optional.

-I remember lots of sentences beginning with "Pero..."

-"Lo que" seemed to be used (or overused) a lot.

montreal · Oct 3, 2008

Chip said:
5. Overuse of subjunctive, eg.:

#1: Que hay de comer hoy?
#2: Lo que tu quieras

Feel free to add other examples and I would really appreciate input from some of our native speakers.

Chip,

Perhaps you just didn't give us a good example for #5. In this case present subjunctive is necessary. I do agree with you that the use of present subjunctive is often overused, although I don't believe this is unique to the DR. I put present in bold, because I have not noticed other forms of subjunctive being misused. Norma started a thread on this topic a couple of months back. Personally, I believe the lower classes might overuse it to sound more "educated".

Have a nice weekend!

Chip · Oct 3, 2008

Mr Lu please see responses in red below:

Norma Rosa said:
Hola primo.

#1 -It is not clear to me. The sentence has a pronoun as subject (?l ) followed by a verb (quiso). If the noun (Di?s) was stated (which normally doesn?t happen) it was probably for clarification or emphasis, as in ?l lo quiso as?. ?Di?s! But, normally, people do not talk like that. Norma, I'm sure of this use and I'm sure it is the subject and not the object of the pronoun which is put at the end. This is exactly why I asked the question in order to not assume that this is correct Spanish.

#2 - Correct and used world-wide. Es que ese tipo no deja a uno hablar. (Ese tipo no deja a nadie hablar.) It needs the personal ?a? as in A Margarita ese tipo no la deja hablar. Thanks, I in fact use this a lot.

#3 - Incorrect. That never happens.
?A qu? hora puedo recoger mi carro? ?A qu? hora puedo recogerlo?
A las cinco. (You might hear a la, but never a lo.) On the contrary, I have heard it many times, again I know that now this is not correct, thanks.

#4. Redundancy might occur for clarification. In your sentence, the speaker might pause after recoger. ?A qu? hora lo puedo recoger . . . el carro mio? (mi carro) thanks

#5 - How is the subjunctive overused in your example? The answer calls for it. I was merely providing an example because you pointed out to me that in Cibao many people over use the subjunctive.

Norma

Thanks again to all. The point of this thread was to help me distinguish between correct and incorrect forms of Spanish that I have witnessed here in cibao in the last almost three years. I have other examples as well and will post them as I remember them. Please post your own examples.

chip

montreal · Oct 3, 2008

Chip said:
Mr Lu please see responses in red below:

Thanks again to all. The point of this thread was to help me distinguish between correct and incorrect forms of Spanish that I have witnessed here in cibao in the last almost three years. I have other examples as well and will post them as I remember them. Please post your own examples.

chip

I have to applaud you Chip in your determination to speak Spanish fluently (and properly)

If only people took the time to understand the language they are speaking....

Norma Rosa · Oct 3, 2008

DaniJ;682910]When I was there, I remember there was often a lot of extra "stuff" added to sentences, words that wouldn't necessarily make or break the sentence.

For instance, a student of mine asking me:
"Pero profe, como que tu te llamas?" - "que" isn't needed. "Tu" is pretty optional

Your sentence is out of context. If a person tells me that your name is John, and another that it is James, and yet another that it is Peter, if I see you I would want to clarify that; therefore I would say: "Pero profe, (profesor) ?C?mo es que (t?) te llamas?" (?C?mo es que usted se llama?)

Another situation that might prompt the same question: You have been teaching for days, weeks, and have not tell the students your real name.

I remember lots of sentences beginning with "Pero..."

"Lo que" seemed to be used (or overused) a lot.

Click to expand...

What's the problem?

Chip · Oct 3, 2008

montreal said:
I have to applaud you Chip in your determination to speak Spanish fluently (and properly) If only people took the time to understand the language they are speaking....

Thanks, I do appreciate it. In fact I had the chance to talk with one of our distinguished DR1'ers, Norma Rosa, in person in Salcedo and we discussed Spanish among other things and while she corrected some of my Spanish she also said I spoke fairly well. This has encouraged me to keep on refining my Spanish and even though I also realize my accent will never go away, I see no reason why I can't speak as properly at some point as your average educated Dominican.

Norma Rosa · Oct 3, 2008

Chip has caught the Spanish by its tail.

montreal said:
I have to applaud you Chip in your determination to speak Spanish fluently (and properly) If only people took the time to understand the language they are speaking....

I do applaud Chip as well. This is something I needed to say since I met Chip this past July in the DR. This guy speaks Spanish. He is fluent in the language. Although he lives in the Cibao area, he does not have the cibae?o accent, in fact, one can not detect an specific accent.

This is a guy with confidence and that's why he is at the level he is at. He sat to converse with me and other members of my family, people he had never seen in his life, and he did it with the easiness of a native speaker.
One of my cousins asked me, "Is he really American?"

Chip · Oct 3, 2008

Norma Rosa said:
I do applaud Chip as well. This is something I needed to say since I met Chip this past July in the DR. This guy speaks Spanish. He is fluent in the language. Although he lives in the Cibao area, he does not have the cibae?o accent, in fact, one can not detect an specific accent.

This is a guy with confidence and that's why he is at the level he is at. He sat to converse with me and other members of my family, people he had never seen in his life, and he did it with the easiness of a native speaker.
One of my cousins asked me, "Is he really American?"

Gracias prima, le agradezco mucho.

Ezequiel · Oct 3, 2008

#1: A que hora lo puedo recoger el carro mio?
#2: a lo cinco horas.

Anybody that say {a LO CINCO horas} can't be a native Spanish speaker, it sounds like a foreigner to me.

I'm from El Cibao myself (Santiago) and i had never heard any body saying {a LO CINCO hora}, maybe you're not hearing correctly.

Chip · Oct 6, 2008

Ezequiel said:
Anybody that say {a LO CINCO horas} can't be a native Spanish speaker, it sounds like a foreigner to me.

I'm from El Cibao myself (Santiago) and i had never heard any body saying {a LO CINCO hora}, maybe you're not hearing correctly.

Ezequiel

Thanks, I must have heard it wrong then. I know it wasn't "a las cinco" so it must have been something else that I'm not remebering well.

How about the formation "cerca a"? I know I hear this a lot here. I understand the correct form is "cerca de".

montreal · Oct 6, 2008

Chip said:
Ezequiel
How about the formation "cerca a"? I know I hear this a lot here. I understand the correct form is "cerca de".

Chip,

Using the proposition 'a' is not necessarily incorrect. It is OFTEN used in certain countries (Colombia, Spain, sometimes DR) I don't believe the RAE has taken a stand on the proper usage of cerca a/cerca de.

Pero 'de' suena mejor

To me

Ezequiel · Oct 6, 2008

Chip said:
Ezequiel

Thanks, I must have heard it wrong then. I know it wasn't "a las cinco" so it must have been something else that I'm not remebering well.

How about the formation "cerca a"? I know I hear this a lot here. I understand the correct form is "cerca de".

Chip, you know to much Spanish:bunny:, don't take Spanish as a second language classes, take the Spanish that "we naive Dominican" take in school, it will help you more.

Also if you can, take "Clases de Ortografia" you'll learn about all the rules in Spanish especially the rules that many Spanish speakers ignore all the time:cheeky:, you will learn when a word is a " Triptongo, Diptongo, grave or llana, esdrujula and sobreesdrujula.

Chip · Oct 6, 2008

Ezequiel said:
Chip, you know to much Spanish:bunny:, don't take Spanish as a second language classes, take the Spanish that "we naive Dominican" take in school, it will help you more.

Also if you can, take "Clases de Ortografia" you'll learn about all the rules in Spanish especially the rules that many Spanish speakers ignore all the time:cheeky:, you will learn when a word is a " Triptongo, Diptongo, grave or llana, esdrujula and sobreesdrujula.

Thanks. Unfortunately here in Santiago I can't find a place to take Spanish classes at the university level without taking a whole course load (carrera completa). That would be too much trouble to take all of those classes just to get the benefit of studying Spanish. Besides, since we have expects like you here on DR1 why should I take classes?

jrhartley · Oct 6, 2008

maybe you are trying to speak spanish too well.....after all not all English people speak English well enough to pass exams...and I is unanimous on that

Norma Rosa · Oct 6, 2008

Chip, at your level, I would concentrate in reading (novels, poetry).

Ezequiel · Oct 6, 2008

jrhartley said:
maybe you are trying to speak spanish too well.....after all not all English people speak English well enough to pass exams...and I is unanimous on that

Well said Jrhartley.

Chip concentrate on speaking a fluent Spanish, focus your goal to have the native ability of fluency and understanding.

You don't need to be perfect.:bunny:

Domincan language eccentricities or correct Spanish?

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