US Presidential Race.... Enough already!

I watched the vice presidential debates. It was comedy. Unadulterated very bad comedy. I think you have to be born and bred to understand this stuff. To the rest of us, it is crazy!

Not even Randall Miller can give a good explanation of what is going on! One needs to have no more than 8th grade education and be used to the US school system ... Then you will understand this stuff! Talk about dumbing down! Anyone who tries to explain it falls short. You need to be stupid mon!

Every election it's the same crap. Two guys telling us what they are going to do. In the end nothing gets done. I find it hard to believe that these are the two best candidates the U.S has to offer. In these trying economic times I wouldn't trust either one of them with my money. After watching the debate and listening to the both of them, I'm not voting they suck.

Robert, you missed the boat if you think America doesn't think of Obama as elitist and aloof.

Also, what all youse fer'ners fail to take into account is the conservative middle America voting bloc who will have a hard time voting for a pro abortion, pro homosexuality agenda. I mean, give me a break for goodness sakes, we have one of the most unpopular presidents in the modern era and Obama just has a slight lead over the incumbent party - what does that tell you?

Robert said:

This is why I want to vote, I'm happy to do a 10 for 1 deal. For every 10 Americans, 1 person from the rest of the world can vote

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No way .. that will give the monkeyhouse legitimacy. It is crazy stuff!
My husband says the current generation must be dumber than when he was in college, 45 or 59 or whatever years ago. :laugh::laugh: Same school as Nals you know! We attended some reunion a few years ago but Nals did not want to meet up!

My take: mccain will carry on bush's policies while obama will try to convince people he will bring on the change. People don't understand is that obama will have to listen to his party in the end. There are some plans and policies in american government that no one can change. Look at democrats when they took over the senate and congress 2 yrs ago. The were elected on the promise to cut the war funds and bring back the troops. Did they cut the funds? No, it was all a trick to get themselves elected. I doubt if obama will bring any progressive changes to the current crisis. He will do whatever the party tells him to do.
Can either man fix the current financial mess? hahahaha, they both may have plans but do they have the funds to do it? Not a chance. Even if they come up with a fix, it will take around 5-6 yrs before we will see any results. I have a feeling the american president is already chosen for the american public. We have been steered towards chosing among these 2 candidates. I mean, if the voting had been done fairly, Dr. Ron paul would have won with a landslide victory. What is the difference between the communist system and the american democratic system? We get to have one more person to choose from. just one more party. Why do you think american education system / media empire spends so much time and efforts to make american dumb? You see the results now. We have to choose the lesser devil among the 2. Look who was elected in the last 2 terms? makes you wonder how did we ever become a super power?
AZB

Chip said:

Robert, you missed the boat if you think America doesn't think of Obama as elitist and aloof.

Also, what all youse fer'ners fail to take into account is the conservative middle America voting bloc who will have a hard time voting for a pro abortion, pro homosexuality agenda. I mean, give me a break for goodness sakes, we have one of the most unpopular presidents in the modern era and Obama just has a slight lead over the incumbent party - what does that tell you?

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It tells me that there is an intellectual abyss in middle America. They are very stubborn and reactionary, and do not have a grasp on what issues really effect them.

Over 50% of marriages fail in the US. Is that because homosexuals are undermining the sanctity of marriage with their agenda? No. People deserve to be treated like humans with dignity regardless of their lifestyle, and that is the real issue.

They want the right to live like anyone else in a country that taxes their income equally for heterosexuals.

As for pro or anti-abortion, the idea that needs defending is pro-choice. The government should stay out of this. And since this is an issue that affects women, then why are the main opponents to abortion rights men? Yes, 8 out of every 10 anti-pro choice advocates are male.

Men have a choice in this argument PRE-ORGASM. After that it is totally out of their hands. If men are so obsessed with this issue, they should either wear a condom or get a vasectomy.

But you bring up some very valid points-with our economy in ruins and our foreign policy a disaster of epic proportions, middle America should be engaged in the issues that really effect the country-like abortion and gay rights:ermm:.

Calling Obama an elitist is ridiculous. He came from a poor background and went to the best schools because he worked hard and earned it. That is what you are supposed to do in America and why those opportunities are there in the first place.

To hold that against him goes against the very nature of the american dream-to be able to do something with your life if you come from a humble background.

Middle America has issues. There is a real intellectual black hole there and candidates pander to that black hole. This is why McCain picked Sarah Palin as a running mate, because her anti-intellectual, right-wing, pro-religious agenda fits in perfectly with how they think and who they are.

It is an insult to throw someone like Sarah Palin into the ring, with her folksy "oh, betcha-by-golly" persona, talking to all the hockey moms and Joe Sick Packs of the nation, all the while cynically insulting our intelligence.

Her "rootin' tootin" anti-intellectual demeanor hides a thinly veiled right-wing agenda that would make Dick Cheney blush. She wants to keep cutting taxes for the richest 1% and corporations, increase spending on the military and is anti-Rove v Wade. She is clueless about foreign policy and can't even name the newspapers and magazines she supposedly reads on a daily basis. Being anti-intellectual doesn't mean we have to swallow this type of ignorance in a potential President and call it a virtue.


And I'm not necessarily a democrat, but the republicans have done enough to us. They have made a mockery of the Constitution at every conceivable opportunity and have driven this economy into the ground with their wasteful expenditure of taxpayer money on tax cuts for the rich and an imperialist war agenda in the Middle East that we are bound to lose.

This tax money is MY money, and I'd rather see it go to health care for all Americans than to rich oil companies, Wall Street crooks and Halliburton.

Believe me middle America knows what effects them. No different than any other part of American. They know what it cost to fill up a tank of gas or send their kid to college just like the rest of the country. Middle America is also the most patriotic part of the country. Generations of men have served their country proudly. These people are God fearing men and women. Don't knock them for being anti-abortion. That is a moral issue to them. Berzin you claim not to be a Democrat but you certainly sound like one.

Forgive my observations but ............

1. Politics are ALWAYS going to get 'personal' when discussions/debates take place. People hold diverse views & often these are deeply ingrained into their Psyche! YOU know this Robert that is why you so often close or delete posts that start to get 'Political' - hence many may not be entering this debate.

2. American Politics are for THE AMERICANS (those that have citizenship in the STATES of America) & there is no reason why WE Brits. Europeans, South Americans, Asians ............ should have a vote on how they play their politics!! It AIN'T OUR BUSINESS to get involved in saying who should or should not be a political candidate for THEIR President. Can you imagine the CHAOS in the European community if USA citizens got the vote for the European Parliament??

3. A NON American who makes suggestions as to which candidate should be voted for in a public forum is inciting those of strong views to react in a confrontational manner. Perhaps it would be better to allow such comments/recommendations to come from a USA citizen - British Colonialism ended quite a few years ago I am advised.:cheeky:

As in the heading, these are purely personal observations on the subject matter. There is NO WAY I would want to get involved in voting for an American President & if I were an American, I might find the suggestion (as outlined) a little insulting.:ermm: ~ Grahame.

Robert said:

Debate the issues and leave personal attacks out of it.

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Which issues though? I read your original post again. Do you want us to debate whether foreigners (i.e the rest of the world) should vote in US elections or who we would vote for if we had a vote? Or both? And could I ask why the choice appears to be limited to Obama and McCain? Isn't Ralph Nader still a candidate? I know Ron Paul dropped out in June but I haven't heard Nader dropped out. Maybe someone could enlighten me?

Robert said:

This will be the last and only thread on this subject, it will be closed on Nov 30.

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Do you think we'll have a result by then? I mean..........going on previous experience.........:ermm:

If Dr. Ron paul was in race I would vote for him. Seeing what we have to choose from in this election, I will refrain from voting. Remember folks, I am a US citizen.
AZB

jruane44 said:

Believe me middle America knows what effects them. No different than any other part of American. They know what it cost to fill up a tank of gas or send their kid to college just like the rest of the country. Middle America is also the most patriotic part of the country. Generations of men have served their country proudly. These people are God fearing men and women. Don't knock them for being anti-abortion. That is a moral issue to them. Berzin you claim not to be a Democrat but you certainly sound like one.

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God-fearing people, like the government, should stay out of peoples' personal lives. Isn't that what republicans are always barking about? This is not about abortion, but about who should have the right to choose and why.

Which is what I stated in my previous post. So I am not knocking anyone for anything except being uninformed about the issues that affect them.

As for whatever I am, labeling me one or the other is very simplistic and facile. An independent thinker refuses to be bogged down by the dogma and ideology of any particular group.

And for you to say that middle America is more patriotic than any other part of the country, well that is a myth conjured up by politicians to cater to middle America's baser instincts and impulses while the real issues go uncontested.

If middle America were so in tuned to what is affecting them, they would be ranting and raving in the streets after this government bailout of Wall Street was passed, full of tax breaks for oil companies and givebacks to corporations that will take middle America generations to pay back-IN THE FORM OF TAXES. All you have to do is feed these people empty platitudes in the form of patriotism and religion and they lose focus on what the issues affecting them really are.

But that is where they are. They are behaving like sheep to slaughter, and are being constantly patronized and pandered to by politicians in exchange for the right to have corporate lobbyists continue to influence public policy on behalf of the private interests that employ them.

Their voice has been neutered from the political debate by these tactics. Case in point-Sarah Palin accuses Barack Obama of having ties to terrorists, a pathetic and cynical display of pandering, and a ploy that will have an affect on the outcome of the decision-making process of voters. This from a woman who clearly lacks the intellect of a true statesperson but knows how to pander to the baser instincts of uninformed voters.

What we have here is taxation without representation, the main reason why we as a country decided to break away from England in the first place. So in that aspect we as a country have gone full circle and are right back where we started from.

We have had our government hijacked by corporations and special interest groups that are only concerned with advocating government policies that allow them to treat the tax dollars of all Americans as a feeding trough to enrich themselves and to keep the rest of us firmly mired in a debt that is growing with no end in sight.

You don't need to be a member of either party to realize this. It is reality, one that everyday Americans refuse to concede is true.

AZB said:

If Dr. Ron paul was in race I would vote for him. Seeing what we have to choose from in this election, I will refrain from voting. Remember folks, I am a US citizen.
AZB

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I think there are a LOT of US Citizens that feel the same way as you AZB. :glasses:

Do you think that if Obama had chosen Dr. Ron Paul as his running mate that the race would already be won?? This combination (although against normal 'Party Politics') seems to get the support of many US Citizens I have spoken with! :surprised ~ Grahame.