For or Against Torture

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Castellamonte

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Spinning a little off the thread regarding Death Penalty, I started wondering if we could generate a lively discussion of torture. Specifically as it relates to terrorists or hardened criminals in an effort to extract information from them. Studies have shown for years that torture doesn't really work but...

...what do you think?
 

Robert

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Spinning a little off the thread regarding Death Penalty, I started wondering if we could generate a lively discussion of torture. Specifically as it relates to terrorists or hardened criminals in an effort to extract information from them. Studies have shown for years that torture doesn't really work but...

...what do you think?

This needs to get DR related very quickly, other wise it's head will be lopped off :)
 

suarezn

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Hmmm...There are many people who feel that one contributor to the rise of crime in The DR is the fact that the police cannot torture people as they used to (well at least they are not supposed to...it still happens, but not as frequent as it used to).

Since the new penal code came into effect criminals are routinely released because of lack of proof and they are back on the street doing more crime in no time. It used to be the police could / would beat the crap out of anyone to extract confessions, they would hold relatives in jail until the accused turned himself in, etc...As much as I hate to admit it, these techniques were quite effective...but then again very prone to abuse.
 

Chip

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With regard to releasing those arrested for crime, this has become a big problem - it is true if the victim doesn't follow up and do the papeleo that the criminals are often released without charges being pressed.

On the other hand, repeat offenders that establish a reputation as theives etc are dizque often killed here, assuming they have no connections, etc.
 

dv8

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i come from a communist country and a certain degree of torture was often used by the special police those days. we are talking of course mild stuff, in comparison to medieval ways: just good old beating, threats, sleep deprivation.
to make it DR related - seems like a beating is still a way to deal with criminals although not much as before (so i am told).
in any question about torture you have to ask yourself: who the hell would be people willing to do it? surely in order to torture (think more vietnam war horrors than simple smack in the face) you'd need a psychotic personality, what normal person would be willing to torture others?
in all due respect to those willing to cut off limbs of child rapists - would you do it as a job? cutting off balls, ripping off nails, burning faces with hot iron, poking eyes out? would you do it nine to five, 5 days a week, for 20 years? violence like that corrupts mentally.
not that i am against occasional beating, and it's far easier to get away with it in DR than in USA, just look at all those stories about arrests made by local police...
 
Hmmm...There are many people who feel that one contributor to the rise of crime in The DR is the fact that the police cannot torture people as they used to (well at least they are not supposed to...it still happens, but not as frequent as it used to).

Since the new penal code came into effect criminals are routinely released because of lack of proof and they are back on the street doing more crime in no time. It used to be the police could / would beat the crap out of anyone to extract confessions, they would hold relatives in jail until the accused turned himself in, etc...As much as I hate to admit it, these techniques were quite effective...but then again very prone to abuse.

Wasn't the DR much safer under Baleguer, at least thats how i remember it. Beat the crap out of these criminals and they wont be so inclined to do it again.
 

cobraboy

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Wasn't the DR much safer under Baleguer, at least thats how i remember it. Beat the crap out of these criminals and they wont be so inclined to do it again.
I've seen more than one occasion where a perp in the DR was...well...not exactly Miranda-ized by local gendarme.

I wouldn't call it torture. More of several eclamation points to remind them about the downside of behaving in an anti-social manner...
 

Castellamonte

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I guess there are definitely different forms of torture as well as definitions for torture. Some consider marriage a form of self-inflicted torture where others feel lopping off ones balls is torture (not that I can see the difference ;-) ).

When I was a kid my dad would beat the crap outta me if I did something wrong. He had this big long board with holes drilled it in (aerodynamic, I guess) he used for swats. Believe me, it sure got my attention and I would do just any anything to keep it from happening again. But was that torture? Nah, I think not.

But a sharp crack upside the head is definitely a good way to get someones attention.

Actively setting about to torture someone, though, seems like it should only be used in extreme circumstances. And still I'm iffy about it.

For example, Person X kidnaps the 10th person in a row and has buried the preceding 9 people in graves while they were still alive, killing them all in a horrible way. The police catch Person X. Should use torture in an attempt to extract the location of the 10th person before they die as well?
 

bienamor

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wrong word usage

I guess there are definitely different forms of torture as well as definitions for torture. Some consider marriage a form of self-inflicted torture where others feel lopping off ones balls is torture (not that I can see the difference ;-) ).

When I was a kid my dad would beat the crap outta me if I did something wrong. He had this big long board with holes drilled it in (aerodynamic, I guess) he used for swats. Believe me, it sure got my attention and I would do just any anything to keep it from happening again. But was that torture? Nah, I think not.

But a sharp crack upside the head is definitely a good way to get someones attention.

Actively setting about to torture someone, though, seems like it should only be used in extreme circumstances. And still I'm iffy about it.

For example, Person X kidnaps the 10th person in a row and has buried the preceding 9 people in graves while they were still alive, killing them all in a horrible way. The police catch Person X. Should use torture in an attempt to extract the location of the 10th person before they die as well?



You don't mean torture do you? you really wanted to say intensive interrogation, right
 

Ezequiel

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Spinning a little off the thread regarding Death Penalty, I started wondering if we could generate a lively discussion of torture. Specifically as it relates to terrorists or hardened criminals in an effort to extract information from them. Studies have shown for years that torture doesn't really work but...

...what do you think?

The DR should stay away from torture, because i know poor people will be the one paying the price.

Torture doesn't work anyway, if the government says that they're going to torture me, i'll say whatever they want me to say, for heavensake if they tickle me i will say whatever they want to hear.
 

suarezn

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Wasn't the DR much safer under Baleguer, at least thats how i remember it. Beat the crap out of these criminals and they wont be so inclined to do it again.

The DR was a safer country, but not because of torture or anything like this. Everyone know the main reason why The DR today is not as safe and it's called drugs my friend...Specially when the cops are involved / allowing it, etc...A topic for another thread for sure.
 

dv8

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The DR should stay away from torture, because i know poor people will be the one paying the price.

what's with this tears over poor people?:tired:
i think the rich are just as likely to be tortured by "noble" poor - "tell me where do you keep the money?!".
and that the poor get the beating from the government? only those poor who break the law, why would the police even arrest, let alone torture an honest man? nah.
 

Mr. Lu

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This government, and all governments, should stay away from the death penalty. At the end of the day the judicial system here is weak as is and so is the use of "proof" against a criminal. It is a system that is indiscriminate and can't police itself, so what can we expect when we add the possibility of state sponsored murders?

They do it in the street anyways here. It's called vigilante justice, now imagined if it was state sponsored? And what about DNA? What about appeals? What about the human rights issue? The DR is no where near ready to handle such a burden, especially if the system as is contains innumerable flaws.

In the end it is always the poor who suffer in countries like these. Here you get awards when you steal millions and get 30 years for stealing a chicken to feed your family. Little Juan will have no way to defend himself in a court of justice, especially when the poor are guilty until proven innocent.



Mr. Lu
 

Castellamonte

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You don't mean torture do you? you really wanted to say intensive interrogation, right

Ah, no, I mean torture. As in beat 'em up, break their fingers, burn their toes, jerk out their teeth and take away their credit cards. The bad stuff!!

Personally I am not in favor or torture any more than I am in favor of the death penalty. But I thought this would be an interesting thread and could get some who are FOR torture to speak up. I am always willing to learn the other side of the argument (not that it will convince me).

'nuff for now...
 

cobraboy

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But a sharp crack upside the head is definitely a good way to get someones attention.
So I'm sitting in a Sosua bar a couple of years ago, and the PN go up to a motoconcho guy, pull him off his bike, cuff him, and throw him in the back of a car with 2 PN officers in front. Doors close. I could see the guy mouthing off in the back, and a PN guy turns around to the back and !WHACKWHACK!....two blistering blows to the guy's noggin. He falls over in the seat.

I suspect he was "compliant" on the way to jail...:cheeky:
 

AlaninDR

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Torture? Gotta love it. So many uses.
Anyone that thinks torture doesn't break a person watches too much TV. The reality is, it works.
Several years ago I toured the Dungeon in London. Made me proud of my British heritage. Those were the good old days. I also believe in Debtor's Prison.
Incarceration doesn't have a good success track record towards criminals as the recidivism rate is quite high. Why not try something new? Give a lesson that will not soon be forgot.
The movie "Pay Back" was an excellent watch. How many people would endure the toe smashing before giving up the info?
I personally like the Mafia way of dealing with guys that over step the boundaries of relationships. Do they like the taste of their genitals before they bleed to death? Just another form of justified torture IMO.
Corporal punishment should be revived in DR if the cops could ever keep a person in jail long enough.
 
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