Looking for some honest answers

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happy traveller

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I'm looking for some honest answers regarding whether or not i should take my child back to the DR to meet his father. I am in touch with baby daddy and we are friends, but i am unsure about the laws in the DR regarding custody, guardianship, etc. Can anyone help me??
I know that quite a few people state...just stay home, but i would really love my son to know the culture of where he came from. If anyone knows the laws regarding this issue and can share the information that would be great.
 
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NotLurking

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I am not a lawyer but your child can NOT legally be transported out of the DR without explicit written, notarize and legalize, consent from your child's father or a court order. To avoid any headaches, BEFORE you travel, you should establish who has legal custody of the child. Also be advised that in order to apply and obtain a US passport for a minor consent of both parents is required.

Have a look at item 5 on the list of requirements to obtain a passport for a minor
Special Requirements for Children Under Age 16


Ley 136-03 para la protecci?n de Ni?os, Ni?as y Adolescentes:

Art. 110.- DEL TRASLADO O RETENCI?N ILEGAL DEL NI?O, NI?A O ADOLESCENTE. Cuando una persona, m?s all? de los derechos que le hayan sido reconocidos, retenga a un ni?o, ni?a o adolescente, o lo traslade a un lugar o pa?s diferente del que tenga su residencia habitual, sin la debida autorizaci?n, ser? considerado como traslado o retenci?n ilegal de ni?o, ni?a o adolescente. El Ministerio P?blico de Ni?os, Ni?as y Adolescentes deber? restituir al ni?o, ni?a o adolescente a la persona que legalmente tiene la guarda. Si el traslado hubiere sido a otro pa?s, deber? dar los pasos correspondientes para reclamar su devoluci?n ante las autoridades del mismo.


Art. 204.- ACOMPA?AMIENTO OBLIGATORIO. Ning?n ni?o, ni?a o adolescente podr? viajar fuera del pa?s si no es en compa??a de su padre, madre o responsable. Cuando viaje con personas que no son su padre, madre o responsable, ser? necesario la presentaci?n de una autorizaci?n debidamente legalizada por un Notario P?blico. En ausencia del padre o de la madre, aquel que tuviere la guarda presentar? una certificaci?n del Tribunal de Ni?os, Ni?as o Adolescentes, donde se haga constar la misma.

P?rrafo.- Si uno de los padres va a salir del pa?s con uno de sus hijos o hijas, no podr? hacerlo sin el consentimiento por escrito del otro.*


Art. 405.- SANCI?N POR RETENCION Y TRASLADO IL?CITO. Padre, madre, responsables o terceros, autor o c?mplice del traslado o retenci?n ilegal en los t?rminos establecidos en el art?culo 110 de este C?digo, ser? sancionado con privaci?n de libertad de seis (6) meses a un (1) a?o y con el pago de una multa de uno (1) a diez (10) salario m?nimo establecido oficialmente, vigente al momento de cometer la infracci?n.

P?rrafo.- En caso de reincidencia la sanci?n ser? de uno (1) a dos (2) a?os de privaci?n de libertad y multa de diez (10) salario m?nimo establecido oficialmente, vigente al momento de cometer la infracci?n.


Art. 406.- SANCI?N POR EL TRASLADO IL?CITO DE NI?O, NI?A O ADOLESCENTE AL EXTRANJERO. Quien promueva o preste ayuda, auxilio o sea c?mplice en el traslado de un ni?o, ni?a o adolescente al extranjero, con fines de lucro, u otros fines il?citos, en violaci?n a las disposiciones legales, ser? castigado con pena de cuatro (4) a seis (6) a?os y una multa de diez (10) a treinta (30) salario m?nimo establecido oficialmente, vigente al momento de cometer la infracci?n.

*my empasis
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Source: http://www.unicef.org/republicadominicana/Ley136_06.pdf

NotLurking
 
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NotLurking

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bob saunders said:
Not Lurking she and the baby are not in the DR.
Click to expand...

And? She wants to travel to the DR with her child by her own admission.

happy traveller said:
I'm looking for some honest answers regarding whether or not i should take my child back to the DR to meet his father.
Click to expand...

Before she travels out of the US to the DR the child needs a US passport. Before she can get a US passport for the child she needs to comply with current US regulation for obtaining a US passport for a minor; current regulation require consent of BOTH parents before a US passport can be issued.

If she travels to the DR with the child, the child will be under DR jurisdiction and law 136-03 (for the protection of minors and adolescent) will apply. In which case, the child's mother will need the consent of the father or court order to transport the child out of the country. Law 136-03 does not currently include any exceptions to the second paragraph of article 204. Keep in mind that the father has legal custody of the child unless a court of law has determined otherwise. That is why I suggested in my previous post that it would be a good idea to legally determine who has legal custody before the child is brought to DR and falls under DR jurisdiction.


NotLurking
 
H

happy traveller

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Thank you!

I actually live in Canada, but it's good to know what the legalities are for the DR.

Baby's Daddy is not on the birth certificate...so wondering if that would make a difference or not.
 
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Eddy

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happy traveller said:
I'm looking for some honest answers regarding whether or not i should take my child back to the DR to meet his father. I am in touch with baby daddy and we are friends, but i am unsure about the laws in the DR regarding custody, guardianship, etc. Can anyone help me??
I know that quite a few people state...just stay home, but i would really love my son to know the culture of where he came from. If anyone knows the laws regarding this issue and can share the information that would be great.
Click to expand...
Why take him back there (here)? He's your baby now. Let him make his own decision when he's 18.
 
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NotLurking

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happy traveller said:
Thank you!

I actually live in Canada, but it's good to know what the legalities are for the DR.

Baby's Daddy is not on the birth certificate...so wondering if that would make a difference or not.
Click to expand...
What exactly is on the birth certificate? Undeclared, unacknowledged or just a blank space where the father's name is supposed to be?

Canada also requires that BOTH parents of a child sign the passport application when applying for a Canadian passport for a minor but there are exceptions to this rule.

In the case of custody, separation or divorce
All legal documents that refer to custody, the mobility of, or access to the child must be provided. If a divorce has been granted, a copy of the divorce judgement or order must also be provided. Where a joint custody provision exists, either parent may apply, but both parents must sign the application.
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Source: Passport Canada: Passports for children

Your child's Canadian birth certificate, that (now) omits the child's father, will certainly provide proof to the Canadian passport office that you are eligible to acquire your child's passport without the father's signature. However, the omission of the biological father's name from the birth certificate does not necessarily shield you from the legal rights afforded the child's father by both Canadian and Dominican law. The child's father has the right to petition the courts, in DR and possibly in Canada too, to try to legally establish filiation (paternity) and request custody.

Note: I'm not saying that the child's father will do such a thing. I just want you to be aware that the legal possibility does exist.

Please have a look at Law 136-03
T?TULO II
DE LA FILIACI?N

http://www.suprema.gov.do/pdf/leyes/2003/LEY136-03.pdf

NotLurking

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV :) ;)
 
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badpiece33

badpiece33

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happy traveller said:
I'm looking for some honest answers regarding whether or not i should take my child back to the DR to meet his father. I am in touch with baby daddy and we are friends, but i am unsure about the laws in the DR regarding custody, guardianship, etc. Can anyone help me??
I know that quite a few people state...just stay home, but i would really love my son to know the culture of where he came from. If anyone knows the laws regarding this issue and can share the information that would be great.
Click to expand...

Is baby daddy helping support the baby? If not screw him and avoid the trouble of possible legal litigation.
 
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LaTeacher

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first off. every child has the right to meet their father. and it's a da*n shame that people are advising this woman to keep both the SON and the FATHER from knowing each other.

that said, if the baby has no father on his birth certificate, there is no need for a father to sign the passport application. if that were the case, hundreds and thousands, perhaps millions, of "bastard" (still the correct term even if its not politically correct) children and adults would never travel. we don't live in the 1950's anymore and children don't pay for their parents decisions (especially those to have children out of wedlock.)

now, i have traveled with my 13 month old son about seven times since he's been born and only twice filed the "appropriate" papers with immigration. why? because my son is an american citizen (born in the DR) and therefore travels with an american passport. why did i bother twice and not again? because BOTH times the people - as in more than one person - told me that because my son is not a dominican citizen i could take my child wherever i damn well pleased. in the following FIVE occasions that we travelled, i have not had one problem.

and i live here.
and my son is a dominican citizen too.

therefore, unless the OP doesn't trust the father, or thinks that he will play games - which is for HER to decide, not us - i say go for it. why not? would you want your kids growing up thinking that his daddy doesn't love him or doesn't want to meet him?
 
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happy traveller

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No he's not providing support. We just started talking again, hadn't heard from him in over 14 months before that. It just so happens that we have some friends in common.

badpiece33 said:
Is baby daddy helping support the baby? If not screw him and avoid the trouble of possible legal litigation.
Click to expand...
 
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NotLurking

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LaTeacher, although your post does have a nice warm hope-full message, it is far off from the legal reality that can be brought to bare by the legal system driven by a spiteful parent (father) exercising his legal rights.

I'm not disputing that she can obtain the child's passport in fact I say the complete opposite. Did you read my whole post?

Even if your own experience leads you to believe otherwise, you do not have the absolute right to transport your child to anywhere in the world you wish, just because your child has a US passport.

If your child was procreated the old fashion way, your child's father has rights too, regardless of the child's American citizenship.

I'm not advocating, nor I'm I suggesting, that a child and a parent should be kept apart but I am advocating prudence. The mother in this case should:

  • talk to the father before traveling
  • legally determine who has custody and where will the child live
  • establish legal responsibilities of each parent (child support)

I think this is sound advice and in no way, shape or form advocated spoiling any ties a child could have with their parent. Remember, DNA evidence is readily accepted in paternity cases both here in DR* and in USA and courts do order DNA testing in disputed paternity cases.


*This is fairly new here in DR. I recently read an article on filiation in DR that stated that Justices were attending seminars on DNA (ADN -- in DR) and proper procedure on handling cases with DNA evidence.



NotLurking
 
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happy traveller

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Thanks.
Do you know if my son would be considered a Dominican citizen even though he wasn't born in the DR? Or how i would go about getting him "both" citizenships?


LaTeacher said:
first off. every child has the right to meet their father. and it's a da*n shame that people are advising this woman to keep both the SON and the FATHER from knowing each other.

that said, if the baby has no father on his birth certificate, there is no need for a father to sign the passport application. if that were the case, hundreds and thousands, perhaps millions, of "bastard" (still the correct term even if its not politically correct) children and adults would never travel. we don't live in the 1950's anymore and children don't pay for their parents decisions (especially those to have children out of wedlock.)

now, i have traveled with my 13 month old son about seven times since he's been born and only twice filed the "appropriate" papers with immigration. why? because my son is an american citizen (born in the DR) and therefore travels with an american passport. why did i bother twice and not again? because BOTH times the people - as in more than one person - told me that because my son is not a dominican citizen i could take my child wherever i damn well pleased. in the following FIVE occasions that we travelled, i have not had one problem.

and i live here.
and my son is a dominican citizen too.

therefore, unless the OP doesn't trust the father, or thinks that he will play games - which is for HER to decide, not us - i say go for it. why not? would you want your kids growing up thinking that his daddy doesn't love him or doesn't want to meet him?
Click to expand...
 
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Ezequiel

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happy traveller said:
Thanks.
Do you know if my son would be considered a Dominican citizen even though he wasn't born in the DR? Or how i would go about getting him "both" citizenships?
Click to expand...

The father has NO legal rights, if he isn't in the birth certificate.

I friend of mine had a baby here in the STATE, the father is Dominican, but his never being in the STATE before, so she decided not to put his name in the child birth certificate to avoid headaches like: Asking for permission to get a passport or talking the child outside the DR or USA whenever she likes.

Just travel with your child birth certificate alongside his passport to prove that the child has NO father and you are the only parent.

I don't think the baby's father will take you to court to get custody of the child, he knows the child will have a better future and a better education in Canada.

If you want to be a good mother, you can take the child to the DR every year so he can see his father.
 
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happy traveller

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No worries. I thank you for being helpful. I didn't know some of the things that you told me and i appreciate any/all knowledge that people have in regards to my situation.


NotLurking said:
LaTeacher, although your post does have a nice warm hope-full message, it is far off from the legal reality that can be brought to bare by the legal system driven by a spiteful parent (father) exercising his legal rights.

I'm not disputing that she can obtain the child's passport in fact I say the complete opposite. Did you read my whole post?

Even if your own experience leads you to believe otherwise, you do not have the absolute right to transport your child to anywhere in the world you wish, just because your child has a US passport.

If your child was procreated the old fashion way, your child's father has rights too, regardless of the child's American citizenship.

I'm not advocating, nor I'm I suggesting, that a child and a parent should be kept apart but I am advocating prudence. The mother in this case should:

  • talk to the father before traveling
  • legally determine who has custody and where will the child live
  • establish legal responsibilities of each parent (child support)

I think this is sound advice and in no way, shape or form advocated spoiling any ties a child could have with their parent. Remember, DNA evidence is readily accepted in paternity cases both here in DR* and in USA and courts do order DNA testing in disputed paternity cases.


*This is fairly new here in DR. I recently read an article on filiation in DR that stated that Justices were attending seminars on DNA (ADN -- in DR) and proper procedure on handling cases with DNA evidence.



NotLurking
Click to expand...
 
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happy traveller

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It would be nice if i could afford to go every year.

The reason why your friend didn't put him on the certificate is the same reason why i didn't, plus at the time, the father decided to not keep in contact with me, as i tried many times to get ahold of him.

As for the father. I will make sure everything is good between us and maybe even get him to send me a letter stating that i have full custody and guardianship.

I just wanted to know the legalities.

Thanks to everyone for your helpful comments.

Ezequiel said:
The father has NO legal rights, if he isn't in the birth certificate.

I friend of mine had a baby here in the STATE, the father is Dominican, but his never being in the STATE before, so she decided not to put his name in the child birth certificate to avoid headaches like: Asking for permission to get a passport or talking the child outside the DR or USA whenever she likes.

Just travel with your child birth certificate alongside his passport to prove that the child has NO father and you are the only parent.

I don't think the baby's father will take you to court to get custody of the child, he knows the child will have a better future and a better education in Canada.

If you want to be a good mother, you can take the child to the DR every year so he can see his father.
Click to expand...
 
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LaTeacher

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i didn't say he can travel with me because he is an american citizen. did you read MY whole post?

he travels as an american. and his dad isn't. and his dad isn't on his american passport. therefore he's mine. i'm not so vain as to think that americans get what they want. in fact, i know that traveling on a us passport is sometimes detrimental. but the point is, that me and many of my friends who live here, have dual citizen kids and travel never need permission and they've never been asked about the baby's daddy. ever. it has to do with the dominican law, not the american law. DOMINICAN CHILDREN NEED BOTH PARENTS PERMISSION, foreign children not so much.

and you're wrong. unless this father is looking to get his kid - which i can almost guarantee he's not - he's not going to impede the departure from DR. because, frankly, a DNA (ADN in SPANISH, not DR) test costs more than most dominicans make in two months. and the lawyer that would be involved would be even more.

and there is very little inter-country legal action that could happen to force the mother to support the child - ie: sending money to the father for childcare.
 
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bob saunders

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In Canada she can go with her SON'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE which probably currently says father unknown, has a document raised and signed by a notary stating she doesn't know who the father is. Get a passport for her son. She will not be hassled at immigration or customs either leaving Canada or the DR as long as she has the birth certificate and the passport. Now if she has the fathers name and country on the birth certificate she may have some issues.
 
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NotLurking

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LaTeacher, I happen to live in DR and have three children that live here in DR. All three of my children, my wife and I have dual citizenship, US and DR. Two of my children were born in USA and the other was born here five years ago, so, I too know from experience that it is possible to travel out of DR without the consent of both parents. But this is the legal forum and not the what do you think forum. According to the LAW you are WRONG. Get it? You are legally wrong and you are legally misinforming the OP. Understand?

To clarify, it doesn't matter how difficult, how remote the possibility may be nor how expensive the process is, the LAW gives parents rights that can be exercised by either parent. This is my point.

The courts all over the US, Canada and DR are filled with cases dealing with paternity and filiation. It is very naive to think that somehow you are exempt from the law on the premis that the process is difficult, expensive or because your are physically out of jurisdiction.


By the way this is what I said:
NotLurking said:
(ADN -- in DR)
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Please read more carefully in DR means within the country of the Dominican Republic. There is no language in the word named DR. What ever gave you that idea that you had to specify spanish? We all know Spanish is the DR's official language.

NotLurking
 
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