DOMINICAN REPUBLIC-US: Exorcising the Ghosts of Slavery

A.Hidalgo

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Just read this very good article about Dominico-Haitian relations on the topic of color and the presidential election of Obama. Yes it deals with color so please lets behave or this will be closed by the powers that be.There was a mock election in the Hotel Jargua the night of the elections. The results were 53 votes for John McCain and 448 for Barack Obama.


SANTO DOMINGO, Nov 5 (IPS) - On the island where the African slave trade was first introduced to the western hemisphere in 1520, the United States embassy in Santo Domingo hosted more than 1,000 people to view the possible election of the son of an African to the U.S. presidency.
Btw the article was written by Elizabeth Eames Roebling aka our own mountainannie.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC-US: Exorcising the Ghosts of Slavery
 

JRMirador

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I do not see the point of the article. I?m sure Dominicans do not consider Barack Obama as an Afro-American in it?s accepted definition of being a member of a social group who after several generations still identifies itself with being descendants of African slaves, who have sought redress for the injustice of their ancestor?s slavery. I?m sure Dominicans see Barack Obama as a son of an immigrant who through sweat and toil, and taking advantages of the opportunities offered by the US political system, managed to attain the highest office in that nation.
 

Texas Bill

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JR;

I totally agree with your premise vis-a-vis Obama being viewed as the son of immigrants and totally disassociated with the "slavery" issues whichwere so promanently displayed during the election campaign.
For too long America's black community has kept this issue alive, repeatedly demanding an apology from everyone for having brought slaves to the New World.
What happened over 200 years ago has nothing to do with society today and the issue should be put to bed once and for all.
We should concern ourselves with what is happening today because what happened 200 years ago is buried in the battlefields.

TB
 

SKing

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Nov 22, 2007
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I do not see the point of the article. I?m sure Dominicans do not consider Barack Obama as an Afro-American in it?s accepted definition of being a member of a social group who after several generations still identifies itself with being descendants of African slaves, who have sought redress for the injustice of their ancestor?s slavery. I?m sure Dominicans see Barack Obama as a son of an immigrant who through sweat and toil, and taking advantages of the opportunities offered by the US political system, managed to attain the highest office in that nation.

EVERY Dominican that I have spoken to considers Barack Obama an Afro-American.................
SHALENA
 

Hillbilly

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I do not think they think of him as an African-American, but rather as "one of them" and Dominicans do not think of themselves as being "black" per se....they recognize color, but their mind set is Spanish or European oriented, not African (except for some folklorists).
This was obvious back in the 1820s, 30s, as the Haitian domination took place, part of the issues were that the people in the East did not think of themselves as black as were their neighbors to the West, and they resented being ruled by these dark neighbors...

However, Obama does raise a lot of sympathy because of his very Hispanic looks...And, as a minority, he obviously got a lot of Latin votes....

We'll see down the line how his administration deals with issues close to Dominican hearts..

To me, the most important issue is that he got where he is through education. This is being trumpeted by many successful people of color: Stay in school....

I remember a wonderful fellow Peace Corps Volunteer, Sally Robinson, who once told us:"I can't dance and I can't sing so I studied!!" And this was over 40 years ago....
Remember that there are more male blacks in prison than in college, according to Charles Barkley..

If Obama can incite a revolution among that 20% of the population, can you imagine the minds that will be tapped? Another Carver? Another Obama? Who knows...

HB
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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I do not see the point of the article. I’m sure Dominicans do not consider Barack Obama as an Afro-American in it’s accepted definition of being a member of a social group who after several generations still identifies itself with being descendants of African slaves, who have sought redress for the injustice of their ancestor’s slavery. I’m sure Dominicans see Barack Obama as a son of an immigrant who through sweat and toil, and taking advantages of the opportunities offered by the US political system, managed to attain the highest office in that nation.
I agree. In fact, what many Dominican expatriates have been saying over and over is how he opened the door for the sons of immigrants to make it to the White House. Of course, many fail to see that socio-economic class is more important than anything (the Obamas are not particularly poor or uneducated, in fact they have an upper class elite education - typical of most U.S. presidents), but that's another matter all together.

BTW, Obama is a partial descendant of an African, but he certainly is not a descendant of slaves. From what I know, his father and his family were never enslaved in Kenya, so that's that.

-NALs
 

korejdk

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I do not think they think of him as an African-American, but rather as "one of them"
HB

you're a wise man...as for the "education", not one single record from the Columbia "years" in NY...not a word from a former professor, colleague, no-one saying that "we took the same course"...
 

beasley

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It really irritates me how the media, etc. try to categorize Obama as a "African American." He is about as far removed from being an African American as I am - and I am Caucasian and grew up in a small town in Wisconsin. For heaven's sake, he grew up in Hawaii and went to Harvard. I hardly think that he spent his formative years in any way, shape or form, in a cultural/economic setting similar to that of the majority of the black population in the US.
 

JRMirador

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.....Dominicans do not think of themselves as being "black" per se....they recognize color, but their mind set is Spanish or European oriented, not African (except for some folklorists). ....

HB

I'm sure you had in mind, among others, Dominican sociologist Dagoberto Tejada. Well, I bumped into him yesterday, here, in the Bella Vista Mall, and to my surprise, he was wearing a calf length multicolored vertically-striped woven poncho, something Rigoberta Mench?, an ethnic Maya, would wear. Barbarita Bosh mentioned to me recently that Dagoberto, as he ages, is increasingly showing his Taino features. Until now Dagoberto, has invariably dressed in African tribal gowns, bought in NY city.

JR
 

Ricardo900

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Don't get irritated

It really irritates me how the media, etc. try to categorize Obama as a "African American." He is about as far removed from being an African American as I am - and I am Caucasian and grew up in a small town in Wisconsin. For heaven's sake, he grew up in Hawaii and went to Harvard. I hardly think that he spent his formative years in any way, shape or form, in a cultural/economic setting similar to that of the majority of the black population in the US.

The media portrays him as so because he was born in the US as an "American" and he is of "African" decent. The US has their own set of rules on who's who and Obama is classified as the first Black president.

Now culturally, he is not similar to the typical african-american, but do to his skin color he was categorized as one of them. Even though culturally he is not as african-american as those born in the ghettos and strived to become successful, but he is considered not just in the US but europe and most other countries as a Black man. US born with US rules.

Now during the election, many Dominicans were congratulating me for Obama's win, as if we were the same.

Now as I recall, earlier in the campaign there were tons of articles and media attention that latinos will not vote for a Black president. They considered him Black then, I don't see why they don't consider him Black now.
 

Ezequiel

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Just read this very good article about Dominico-Haitian relations on the topic of color and the presidential election of Obama. Yes it deals with color so please lets behave or this will be closed by the powers that be.There was a mock election in the Hotel Jargua the night of the elections. The results were 53 votes for John McCain and 448 for Barack Obama.



Btw the article was written by Elizabeth Eames Roebling aka our own mountainannie.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC-US: Exorcising the Ghosts of Slavery

President Leonel Fernadez is a Dominican black president, compared to the previous presidents like: Joaquin Balaguer, Juan Bosch, Jacobo Majluta and Hipolito Mejia.

I personally don't consider president-elect Barack H. Obama to be an African-American, like the descendent of African slave. Obama paternal family were never slaves, and he is half white.

Colin power, his parents are from Jamaica, so he is the son of immigrants too.
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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This topic realy brings to light the paradox that is the US racial system classification. To some, AA has to do with the color of one's skin and to others it has to due with social identity. Also, these different ways of classifications are not exclusive to any racial group. The problem is who do we say is right?

Furthermore, throw in the mix mixed race peoples and it really starts to get confusing.

To address the issue of mixed race peoples, some time back it was proposed to add "mulatto" again to the official American census but drew such vehement attacks that it was defeated - believe it or by all accounts the group that opposed the the re-introduction of this term was the AA community - this according to historian Frank Sweet.

Backintyme Publishing Home Page

Mulatto.org
 

margaret

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Aug 9, 2006
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During the Democratic party presidential primaries, I was reading one blog written by a Dominican (unfortunately he quit blogging so I can’t post a link). I think he would self-identify first as Dominican, “white, with a little bit behind the ears.” His post supported Hilary Clinton over Obama for her policies and experience. It was interesting to read the comments of the Dominican bloggers, all very literate, and by their photos I would categorize them as “hispanic” “mixed” and “black.” Some mentioned racial inequality in the United States, several made comments as Christians about Barack Obama as a Moslem. One even characterized him as an anti-Christ. So not every Dominican identified with him or supported him as the best candidate for the Democratic ticket. Perhaps that’s also a reflection of the particular Dominican and US media coverage about Obama at that time.

How one categorizes oneself in relation to others and how we categorize others is very complex. Class, race, nationality, religion, gender, education, experience play a role in this formation of identity. And it's constantly shifting, depending on the context one finds oneself in. Barack Obama has a very interesting and ambiguous identity from a bi-cultural family, Kenyan father, white American mother, an elite education that ordinarily could only be possible with an upper-middle class or upper class background and values as Nals mentioned. He wasn’t formed in an inner city marginalized Afro-American environment and he’s not a descendant of slaves. He can be read in so many ways by “readers” as black, African, Afro-American, upper-middle class, as liberal, as centrist, as Moslem, as apostate for some, as Christian, as anti-Christ for others. Readers bring aspects of their own identity to bear as they interact with the character of Obama. They take what resonates and disregard whatever they choose to based on their own notions of who they are and how they see others. And we do that on the board here on DR1.

As Hillbilly mentioned some Dominicans might see him as “Hispanic-looking” or “looking like them” based on their own identity. As others have mentioned as a “son of an immigrant.” You would have to know his story to make that reading. Obama’s identity also borrows from the identity of others; some might see him as following in the footsteps of Abraham Lincoln and Martin Lutheran King. His identity is multi-layered and can be read in so many ways. He can play with, play up, down play, so many aspects of that identity if he chooses to and of course personal branding is part an election campaign.

Obama himself self-identifies as an Afro-American. He has said that and he can be quoted. Also he often talks like a preacher, quotes Martin Lutheran King fully aware of the use of cadence and rhetoric on the listener. On the question of reparations for descendants of African slaves, he has stated that he is opposed to reparations in the form of tax credits. But using the same language of 24 house representatives who were fighting for reparations, he said that the best reparations would be to address the quality of inner city schools and unemployment. So he acknowledges a link between slavery and the current economic situation of many African-Americans in the USA and that reparations need to be made in some form.


I think it’s interesting that banks like Chase Manhattan, Barclay’s and others that profited from the abduction of Africans have acknowledged and have apologized for their complicity. And it’s ironic that bankruptcy laws have changed in the USA for individual consumers and small businesses and yet overnight $700 billion dollars could be found for a bailout of banks. Yet there was no bailout for “those people that live in that part of the world” that was devastated by Katrina. I think there’s a long road ahead and I hope some of that bailout money goes to education, reconstruction and job creation.

I don’t think the ghosts of slavery have been excised with his election. Some liberal white voters may have voted for him out of guilt taking on responsibility for the acts of their ancestors and some might support reparations as a quick and easy way of finding absolution for the crime that was committed with the Atlantic Slave Trade and the broken promise of 40 acres and a mule. That is also due to their particular white liberal identity. Others have said they could never vote for a “colored person”. However, a great many Americans want to move forward and move beyond racial identifications. I have a white colleague here in Toronto who voted for Obama solely because in her view two terms with the Republicans and the Bush administration was enough. Three Supreme Court judges are retiring and she felt new Democratic appointments would hopefully make it more balanced. She’s a centrist and she’s hoping Obama will be bi-partisan.

I’m optimistic that his election will bring about change. The voter turnout was remarkable and certainly many African-American, people of colour, and immigrants all see themselves as part of America and part of the process. Democracy is stronger today because of that. But I would even say that democracy is also big business in America. Look at the spending on media, advertising, marketing etc. The American brand image is stronger today internationally because the whole world was watching while America elected Barack Obama a man who people can identify with for so many reasons. This creates many opportunities for dialogue, trade and business internationally. Time will tell if his administration will be bi-partisan and whether he can channel the support that his complex image rallied and stay around long enough to leave a legacy.

Sorry for the long post.
 

carl ericson70

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If one goes by American racial concepts(past & present) Barack Obama can easily be classified as African American or black. . Obama?s biological father left him at the age of two and obviously had little impact on his development as a human being. Hence, Barack had little to no exposure to the culture of his father?s Kenyan tribe. I would say that his Indonesian step father had a greater impact on him and of course, his white American mother.

I have read Obama?s autobiography and he elaborates his own personal experiences(as a man in black skin) with racism and prejudice in America. The current U.S. president elect self identifies as African American and that?s how most Americans see him. It?s true that Obama isn?t a descendant of slaves but in his own words? There are slave descendants in my family tree?.

I have not posted at this site for a while and it?s great to see the old gang still hanging in here.

Carl E
 

Ezequiel

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Jun 4, 2008
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If one goes by American racial concepts(past & present) Barack Obama can easily be classified as African American or black. . Obama?s biological father left him at the age of two and obviously had little impact on his development as a human being. Hence, Barack had little to no exposure to the culture of his father?s Kenyan tribe. I would say that his Indonesian step father had a greater impact on him and of course, his white American mother.

I have read Obama?s autobiography and he elaborates his own personal experiences(as a man in black skin) with racism and prejudice in America. The current U.S. president elect self identifies as African American and that?s how most Americans see him. It?s true that Obama isn?t a descendant of slaves but in his own words? There are slave descendants in my family tree?.

He has no other choice, everybody see him as an African-American here in the U.S.A, but he always says he is an American first the way it should be, plus everybody here in the STATES is either a:

African-American
Irish-American
German-American
Mexican-American
Cuban-American or
Dominican-American.

In the DR we don't have those definitions, no matter where your parents are from, if you are born in the DR, you are a Dominican, NOT a Brazilian-Dominican or Cuban-Dominican, but Just Dominican.
 

montreal

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In the DR we don't have those definitions, no matter where your parents are from, if you are born in the DR, you are a Dominican, NOT a Brazilian-Dominican or Cuban-Dominican, but Just Dominican.

Ezequiel,

Americans do tend to take it to another level but I do not completely agree with your comment. The examples you gave would not necessarily be visible minorities, you really believe the same rule applies for Chinese?

Montreal
 

Ezequiel

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Ezequiel,

Americans do tend to take it to another level but I do not completely agree with your comment. The examples you gave would not necessarily be visible minorities, you really believe the same rule applies for Chinese?

Montreal

You got me over there, hehehe, we Dominican tend to call every Asian no matter if is a Japanese, Vietnese, Korean, Thai, a Chinese.

But that's everywhere in the Latin America though, not only Dominican.
 

margaret

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Aug 9, 2006
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You got me over there, hehehe, we Dominican tend to call every Asian no matter if is a Japanese, Vietnese, Korean, Thai, a Chinese.

But that's everywhere in the Latin America though, not only Dominican.

One of my friends is from El Salvador (aboriginal) and other Hispanics call her Chinita. So racial identification is really convoluted. One day she said to me "you're white, go talk to them they'll listen to you." I was shocked, I don't self-identify as "white", I'm Canadian and I guess I was surprised that she saw me in that way and that she saw herself as "other" because I thought of her as like me but only Latina. My ex-husband was Iranian (looks Italian), he once described himself as black. At that particular moment in his life, he felt like a black man (discriminated against). My daughter sees herself as half-Persian, and when she was little once identified her religion on a Census Canada form as Hindu although her parents were Catholic and Muslim. She identified with her girlfriend's religion. I'd like to be a fly on the wall, 200 years from now and see whether or not we can get away from these notions. Whether we still classify each other in this way.
 
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montreal

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Apr 17, 2006
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You got me over there, hehehe, we Dominican tend to call every Asian no matter if is a Japanese, Vietnese, Korean, Thai, a Chinese.

But that's everywhere in the Latin America though, not only Dominican.

Ezequiel,

I think that may be the whole world not just L.A. ;)

I often correct friends when they incorrectly refer to a group or a person as "Chinese". They always give me this quizzical look like "How the hell do you know the difference!!!" ;)

Nicky