Police kill 26 civilians in two months

And in the next line it will say! Great place to family vacation! Well we that have been there know it is a great place but to them who never been here may not come. Add last weeks rape case and we lose more than you think from this kind of acts and by the police, well!!!!

Are the police supposed to enlist crooks before shooting them?

Laura, there are really some bad characters in some barrios in the DR that really need killing, but the police loses credibility when you hear about their corruption and lately in this case of sodomizing a guy because he would not let them extort money from him. The problem with the DR is that some how they just can,t get a handle on what democracy is all about. First you have a police that is corrupted to the core, then you have a dysfunctional judiciary that only serves the rich, then you have a government filled thru patronage that some of them thinks its their turn to have their hands on the till.Now I know there will be somebody pointing to the ills of this country in comparison to the DR, but lets not forget there over 300 million people here from all races creed and color and national origin, keeping that in mind its a pretty well "oiled" machine, and the Federal prisons are filled with corrupted judges and police, can the DR claim that? So you can,t compare the DR with the US with seven million people, all of the same stock whom the majority eats the same thing every day. The problem is that you have a lot of Dominican that are either deported from this country or go back there to live and they spread all the bad influence that they picked up in this country from the rest of the garbage from all over the world, that has made the quality of life in some of the big cities in the East Coast really suck. So the majority of these killings are predators with the US gangster mentality and if you mix this with a police force that serves both as prosecutor, judge and executioner you have a very volatile situation.

Can you give me more info about this subject?
What's the reason for the police to kill so many civilians?
Which area of DR these killing happens?

Thanks
Mike

Laura,

Was there supposed to be a link with your post? I'm not sure what incident are you're refering to in your post.

Were the 26 killings in the DR and if so have any ex-pats been attacked?

Jenna

You can all put your fear on the side. The police does not go around killing tourist or expats. This killings are usually happens in ghetto type of neighborhood where there some real bad apples, which are known to the police,when you mix on one hand an entity that has the authority of prosecutor, judge and executioner and on the other hand an individual with a New York Joe gangster attitude is not hard to figure the result

Appartently, there is a need to worry if a tourist was attacked and raped recently for no reason. Granted we have that danger here in the States too. It's tragic to hear about the violence down there but it's sure not like the US is non-violent. Heck, there were 6 murders here in the greater Seattle area tonight. It a problem in many, many areas and it just seems to be getting worse.

What areas are these 'ghettos' usually located in? The big cities or more rurals areas? Be as sepecific as you can.

Police killing 26 civilians UNACCEPTABLE

Reading some of the responses, I am shocked to read that it?s apparently OK, as long as the Policia Nacional doesn?t touch expats. Expats can be stopped in the middle of the night too.
In my book, in every police-shooting, there is a failure somewhere. Amongst other things, (1) police intelligence and monitoring, so you know where to really expect trouble and can plan ahead, (2) proper training, so your (young) patrol(wo)man is confident he/she can confront a situation without even touching their gunbelt. Democratic insight, service skills, motivation, better pay (for lower ranks) and employment benefits are badly needed for the police there in paradise, but also a strict enforcement of the code of conduct (law 5230), ongoing employee evaluation and training in (non)use of deadly force. I agree with one (extreme ?)political party and the former prosecutor for Sto Domingo that the police is rotten to the core. The PN needs to rid itself of it?s many rotten apples quick. I mean, a policecommander is summoned before a judge and doesn?t show up (Candelier). Here, as a Chief police commander I could loose my job if I would shout at a subordinate because he happens to be gay. (no fear, my exec officer is openly gay, head of the elite assault team and doesn?t take sh*t from nobody). If the new government doesn?t reform the PN drastically, and the many foreign protests against human rights abuses and corruption continue, the tourist industry will suffer badly. No PR-campaign would be able to help out. and, my many friends in Quisqeya would sleep easier. Cuidanse.

Re: Police killing 26 civilians UNACCEPTABLE

what about the brutal criminals themselves?they don't ask if you are a cop,tourist,expat or whatever.they may kill you for rd$ 2,00 and leave your car as being uncapable to drive it.
what about all the policemen good or no good getting murdered on the street?
it's their way of selfedefense and ritting the society of human garbage in an inadequate legal system.
this does not mean that the system does not need a reform.the faster the better if done right.but it would be a very hurtfull process.maybe to hurtfull to national pride.

Jenna, every city in the world have their poor area and that,s where most of the crime are generated, tourist oriented areas are pretty well looked after by the police as well as the well to do area where the people can afford security. The country side the people are freindly and humble but that is not to say nothing ever happens. If you are well traveled you know that a crime can be perpetrated on you right in Times Square NY as well as some bad neighborhood in the DR. You have to have a sence self preservation and you have to have a sence of foreboding if you feel you should not be in some particular place.

Re: Police killing 26 civilians UNACCEPTABLE

Reforming the PN in the DR will take many years. They have operated for a long time like scaramooch describes. Much of what they do is to extort money from people whenever they see an opportunity. They do perform law enforcement duties and are careful to treat certain people the right way so the general public has some degree of confidence in them. They figure they can get some money from you if you are guilty of something or if there was some sort of conflict or disagreement between two parties. Most feel helpless and if you have money, you play the game when it affects your family.

I hear the vast majority of Dominicans comment that these people who are killed in custody are the hard core criminals and they deserve it. I have heard that US gangs are now fairly strong in the barrio areas and problems in the DR have historically been handled in a harsh manner. I always point out that innocent people will be killed somewhere in this sort of applicatin of justice. Most do not find this to be a big concern. The DR is based on the French model of justice and you are guilty when accused until you prove yourself innocent. I think that many feel if the police operated under US standards, crime would get out of control. Much of what I hear comes from Dominicans who live in the US and have experience with both systems.

Re: Police killing 26 civilians UNACCEPTABLE

Police killings are unacceptable. Full stop. Amnesty International and other NGO's are less than impressed with the human rights situation in the Dominican Republic.

It may well be that some of these guys "deserve it". But in that case it sure is nothing that the police should be judging. I admit - although reluctantly - that there can be situations where a PO will have to shoot to protect himself. But it isn't acceptable to shoot to kill and it isn't acceptable that innocent bystanders are accidently hit in shoot-outs between police and gangs in SD. It is nothing exceptional in developing countries - but that doesn't make it any better.

If this kind of behaviour is widely accepted it can cause violence to rise to nasty heights. The police will be judge and jury - as well as executioner - and who is running the country then? Is a police state acceptable? Take a city like Nairobi, Kenya. Police meassures are harsh - which means that the criminals are more violent than they would have been otherwise. Because if they can be identified, they risk getting killed by the police very soon after. So you had better kill your victim or make certain that he won't tell.

I agree that the DR is generally a very safe country to travel in and that tourists are almost never the target. Does that make police killing local people - some of which never got the chance to prove that they were innocent - acceptable?

Regards,
Susanne

Re: Police killing 26 civilians UNACCEPTABLE

Susanne, you took the words right out of my mouth. Reform is badly needed in the NP. I hate to say that I personally don't have much confidence that the NP will be reformed anytime soon though. The person that said that NP was rotten to the core - well just ask any of us Dominicans who are not part of the rich and powerful elite, we will tell you the same thing.

Regards,
Natasha

Re: Police killing 26 civilians UNACCEPTABLE

Susanne

I agree with your post with one exception: "Not necessary to shoot to kill." Non withstanding too many "Television and movie cops," it's darn hard to "wound" someone who is about to shoot you or another person. The intent, meaning and hopeful end result when a police officer discharges a firearm is to incapacitate the target, usually by way of permanently disabling him/her.

There is no practical "safe" way to knock down an assailant, perp or whatever in any other manner at present.

Most people don't have a clue what it is like trying to hit a target with a pistol, let alone one that is shooting at you!

Tom

There is a lot of truth in all the posts, however even though I don't agree 100% with the methods used by the PN, it beats the American/Canadian system where the police have their hands tied and can't do a darn thing about it. The justice system here sucks but so does the one in other countries and the police are helpless. Bad guys have more rights than the good guys. Here at least..well it's a solution, not necessaily the best but it beats yours. Talk to any cop back home and he will probably agree with me. (Unless he's one of those useless bureaucraps "error intended")

I think you can not reform the police system until you reform the judicial system to have a trial that condems criminals to be imprisioned and not have the decision reversed the next week by another judge (often because of bribery or threats to that judge). In the last few years we have read frequently that even some of the worst criminals (especially big drug dealers) often do not stay in jail long. They have a habit of escaping here usually helped by guards or others who do so either because of money offered or because of threats by the criminals family/friends/gang members or because of a supposed red tape situation.

Re: Police killing 26 civilians UNACCEPTABLE

scaramooch, I don't know where you are making up this information from, but it is totally wrong. It just shows how uneducated you are and I feel sorry for those people that are believing what you are saying!

Re: Police killing 26 civilians UNACCEPTABLE

Much of what Scaramooch says IS how it is. How much time have you spent living day-to-day (not just on vacation) in the DR, especially in the really bad barrios of Santo Domingo, not that violent crime is only found there? As he says, there are a lot of bad hombres here - on both sides of the fence and at different social levels.

Re: Police killing 26 civilians UNACCEPTABLE

Actually, I have spent no time vacationing in the D.R. but working in bateys and barrios doing popular education, plantation and sanitation projects, preventative health care and more. I lived in a batey and in a few different barrios and that is such a wrongful judgement. Yes, there are rotten hombres in all areas, including the rich, and I know many innocent people who have been picked up off the streets, just because they looked suspicious and lived in a slum area, put in jail and they were completely innocent, so please don't tell me that that is the way it is.

Re: Police killing 26 civilians UNACCEPTABLE /mere

but seems like that that is the way it is.if it would not be the way it is it would be different which again would be the way it is.

popular education?what are the results?