So, can a guy go to jail for talking "bad" about someone in the DR?

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tomas2

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I just had a really bad experience with a hotel owner, and he is saying if I tell anyone in town about it he can send me to jail for libel. Can he do that? I have pasted in a Trip Advisor report below (with names removed), please advise:

Be careful here!
OK. I admit parts of this story are going to sound crazy, but I swear they are all true (and I have e-mail and personal witnesses to verify). I have been coming to Cabarete for the last 7 years, staying for 2-3 months every year, and have always stayed at (Hotel Name). I work for a bank in the US as an engineer, and my boss lets me come and do my service work (I teach an English class to poor kids in a nearby barrio, other years I volunteered at Integracion Juvenil which is a great place, they have a website, they work with kids that have been sexually abused, or are living on the streets, etc) while I telecommute to my real job in the US.

Last year was my first year with the new owner, (Hotel Owner). All the other years I never had any problems with the previous owner. That isn?t to say everything was always perfect, but the previous owner tried to make things right, and his heart was always in the right spot. (Hotel Owner) is whole different kettle of fish. Since arriving in Cabarete he has offended/bullied/lied to just about every vendor/partner/restaurant (a few months ago he so incensed one of the restaurant owners in town that the owner slapped him?(Hotel Owner) was complaining about the size of his pizza?which was being consumed during happy hour at ? price).

Prior to coming to Cabarete (Hotel Owner) was a pastor in Canada until his congregation left him for what (Hotel Owner) describes as a pedophile (which probably really says something if these people chose a pedophile over him). You can Google his name for some of the details.

It is quite apparent (Hotel Owner) has no skills or training in hotel management. He strategy appears to be trying to leverage his blemished Pastor collar into his business to attract customers (he has prominent links on his site and his real estate site?he also sells real estate? with pictures, etc that from people I have talked to in town, greatly exaggerate his connections/contributions to the needy here). I personally find it kind-of tacky to mingle your business with images of you doing ?God?s work?, especially if another link seems completely inconsistent with allegedly Christian values (you don?t have to look much further than his real estate website?yes?he sells real estate too, can?t imagine how scary that would be to be involved in a real estate transaction with him?where he describes and example sale/rental property scenario that will return 30% annually, which goes beyond any acceptable reasonableness test), but that is something he has to live with.

Anyway, In the 12 months I have know him he has lied to me and others on many occasions, and asked others to lie for him. Just one example, after the post from SKCDN81 (on trip advisor) back in July he e-mailed me, provided the link to Travel Advisor, said this couple had lied about (Hotel Name), and TOLD (not asked) me to give him a 5 star rating. I read what was written and completely believed what the couple had said. I had seen most if not all of these things in the past (no hot water, tarp for a roof, cockroaches, break in?s, etc). In fact I had moved into my apartment the day that couple had moved out, and (Hotel Owner) had confirmed all of these details (break in, fight, bite, etc) but blamed it on the couple for being ?stupid? for leaving a very small window open while the apartment was occupied rather than dealing with the real problem, which is his lack of providing adequate security. Most (if not all) hotels here have security people at least at night. Not here. There was another break-in a couple of weeks ago where one of the guests lost a fair amount of cash, valuables, etc. And I know there have been others.

I wrote (Hotel Owner) back saying I would write a review, but it would be an honest review, and definitely not a 5. He knew what that meant, and didn?t ask a second time.

Here is this year?s nightmare (again, I have e-mail documentation or witnesses for all of it?I had learned to require all business communications with (Hotel Owner) to be in the form of an e-mail?it didn?t really have any practical results in his behavior because he would just decide in his head what the facts were, but at least it was comforting to me to know that I was not crazy, and he truly was lying/misrepresenting facts, and more importantly, was doing it intentionally).

This year I booked for 3 months, sent a deposit of the first month?s rent (4 months early), with an agreement that he would upgrade the internet to the highest level. Because I telecommute to the US while I am there, I need a reliable/fast internet connection, and there had been intermittent problems in the past. To avoid this I offered to pay more than the cost of the internet upgrade if he would assure me it would be available when I arrived. He agreed.

Two weeks before I arrived I sent a reminder e-mail that I was coming, and checking on the internet. (Hotel Owner) said he would upgrade it by the end of that week. When I arrived nothing had been done with the internet. After a couple of days he did attempt something over the phone and said it would take 24-48 hours. When nothing happened for 48 hours he told me to wait some more. I asked him to call the service provider but he wouldn?t (he said he doesn?t speak Spanish, so he couldn?t talk to them, and would need to find someone else to do it?I found it unusual that a ?top selling? realtor and hotel owner of the ?world renowned (Hotel Name)? couldn?t speak the business language of the country he is doing business in, and didn?t at least having access to someone immediately in cases where it is needed).
After being here for almost 2 weeks, in which I asked him both verbally and in e-mail to get this resolved, nothing happened, and it really burned me when I saw him parading in and out of (Hotel Name) with his swimsuit on (he said ?C?mon, my kids are here?give me a break?next week I will start working hard again?).

During this time I heard none of the guests at (Hotel Name), or clients at the restaurant could connect to the internet, or only for very short periods of time. Customers of the restaurant said this had been going on for months, and (Hotel Owner) had been saying he was going to resolve it, but to this day it still doesn?t work properly. My connection works because I have a hardwire connection (which I had to install/pay for myself last year, and again this year when it wasn?t working when I arrived).
Finally I sent (Hotel Owner) an e-mail telling him to forget the internet, I was going to start looking for a new place. He immediately confronted me in my apt, saying he was doubling my rent because I had been there during ?high season? (even though the place was virtually empty, other than his mother and 3 sets of his children that were occupying places). He was implying (although he didn?t actually use the words) that I would have to leave immediately if I didn?t accept his terms. And he knew I had no place to go.
I was really bummed. I told him I was trying to do the ethical thing and give him 2 weeks notice (so he could find another renter), but this turned out to be a mistake. It did get him to (finally) resolve the issue with the internet though (the next morning he did actually drive to the internet place, follow the proper procedure, and in another day the speed had increased), but he again started pushing for more money. He said his rent was due and he really needed the money early.

This explained part of the problems I was seeing. He is not being proactive?or even active?in fixing things. He keeps money in his pocket until the last moment, and only if it will have an immediate payback (like he will immediately lose a paying customer). Each day he didn?t have to pay the increased speed of the internet (which I was paying for in higher rent) was more money in his pocket. I sympathized with him for having money problems, but he was, after all, a vendor, and if he doesn?t have money to fix things, and something (like the internet connection) requires a maintenance investment, I had real concerns whether he would be able to perform it from either a financial or competence standpoint, and I would have to go back to the US quickly for my job.

The final straw was when he was asking me to pay for all of January when it was only the middle of December. I told him I was uncomfortable paying the whole month because I than had no leverage for him to fix things. I e-mailed an offer to pre-pay on the 1st and the 15th, and the amount would be funded to his account within 2 days of his e-mail acceptance. He e-mailed back a refusal, so I thought we were done. We had reached an impasse. I immediately went out and found another apt paying only 1/3 the ?special? rate I had been paying at (Hotel Name).

On December 29th, 3 days before my rent period was over (I had prepaid until the 1st) I moved my stuff out of the apartment to my new place (I did it at nighttime because I didn?t want a confrontation), sent him an e-mail that I had moved, and explaining why. Done.
The next morning I started getting really strange and threatening e-mails from (Hotel Owner) saying, among other things, he was going to ?follow up? with the authorities both here in the US for an unpaid balance. There were all kinds of items on the bill?trips to Puerto Plata?what he would have gotten with the ?rack rate? for this pretty crummy apt (even though there was no one really there until Christmas)?other bizarre stuff. The magical number was $850 US.

I didn?t respond to any of these e-mails, thinking it would not do any good, and would only inflame the situation. My girlfriend and I went out, enjoyed the beach for the day.

This is when it gets really weird, and again, it is ALL TRUE. When we got back the manager of my new hotel said the police were asking for me. I knew immediately what it was about. My Spanish is not that good, so luckily the hotel manager could help translate (something that would not have been possible at (Hotel Name)).

The police officer asked me to go with them to the police station, so my girlfriend and I jumped on the back of the police officers motorcycle (it was a little snug), and a few minutes later we are at the really grungy Cabarete police station. To be honest, it was kind-of interesting to see. They had one ?really nice? holding cell, and one ?equally nice? interrogation room. By the way, the ?nice? part was sarcasm.

The police called (Hotel Owner). The suspect (along with his girlfriend) was in custody. Soon (Hotel Owner) was there. Only one of the Police Officers spoke English, and it was only a little bit. I was unsure of the process, but I guess it was supposed to be sort-of a mediation session where (Hotel Owner) and I were supposed to talk about this. The police were not actively involved. In fact the only one that spoke a little English left the room, so I think they were just there to make sure there was no physical fighting. It was clear they were not interested in the sorting through, or even monitoring the facts.

(Hotel Owner) than announced the rules. I would pay him $500, immediately, or I would go to jail (I wasn?t sure why it was now $500, and not the $800 he threatened me with earlier, but it probably had just as much reason behind it as the first number so I didn?t ask for an explanation). My girlfriend had brought my video camera to tape anything that looked funny, and so she started to take out the camera to document what he was saying. (Hotel Owner) than started pointing his index finger inches from her eye (she is a tiny Asian woman, 4?7?, maybe 100 lbs, and (Hotel Owner) is maybe 6?, 250). I had had enough of his bullying and pushed his hand away. He then started screaming wildly ?arrest him?arrest him for assault!?, even though the officer spoke no English. The officer moved (Hotel Owner)?s chair, and the conversation continued.

I first told him I was not going to pay him anything out of principal (he had not lived up to the agreement with having the internet connection, there were quality issues at the hotel?the previous week I didn?t have any hot water for like 4-5 days, and most importantly, there were security issues at (Hotel Name)). He said he finally installed bars on the windows, but he didn?t seem to understand there are personal security issues there, someone could get hurt/robbed, and he should have a security guard at least at night.
We sat there a while longer, and in my mind, I thought there was nothing left to taIk about, and was preparing myself to go to jail, trying to figure out who my girlfriend should call, etc. I told (Hotel Owner) I was going to tell everyone in town what he had done to me (after all, I had e-mail documentation of the agreement, me asking him to get it resolved, me telling him I was leaving 3 days early), one of the long term residents of (Hotel Name), and I was also going to write up Trip Advisor report of this whole incident (he had me arrested on New Years Eve when he knew I was going to be here for 2 more months). The offer was suddenly reduced to $200 if I didn?t write to Trip Advisor. And, he said if I said anything about this to anyone in town he would have me arrested for Libel, and because he was a now Dominican citizen, this would be much more serious than this current charge.

(continued in next frame...too much text)
 
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tomas2

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I refused the discounted offer, but realizing I didn’t want to go to jail, wreck my girlfriends vacation on this stuff (she is only here for a few more days), and wouldn’t have time to sort this whole thing out in the Puerto Plata court system, I offered to pay the whole $500 (my integrity was worth more than a $300 discount, and being able to warn others about this guy probably ranked up there almost as high as the service work I do here). (Hotel Owner) then said the Trip Advisor report wasn’t that important to him because would get a chance to respond, and presumably attack me like he attacked the other couple (and that is fine, I don’t need anything from anyone here, I pay my bills…I have already paid for all of January at my new place, and will be paying for all of February in a couple of days…even though they are not asking for it), tip well, do my service work, have a beer on the beach at night, I don’t have any financial/other entanglements that I need to consider before telling the truth. After all, I would have $300 more in my pocket for just not writing to Trip Advisor.

The police officer drove me back to my hotel, I got the money, came back, paid (Hotel Owner), and I thought we were finally done (realizing I had made the mistake thinking were done several times now). (Hotel Owner) wasn’t. He was standing in the doorway trying to tell the police officer to warn me that I can’t say anything to anyone about this or I would be arrested again. I told the officer in my so-so Spanish that I had paid, and I didn’t want to talk to him anymore. He agreed, and motioned for (Hotel Owner) to move.
Bottom line, if you do decide to stay there be prepared to live with whatever you get. And if a situation happens where there is a long end of the stick and a short end of the stick, guess which end you get (or you too could get a tour of the Cabarete police station as well).

Oh, and one more thing, be a little suspicious of their restaurant recommendations. I have heard they demand (and in a very obnoxious way) comp meals in exchange for recommendations.

Have a good time in Cabarete. It is really a great place!
 
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Well in reading this I think you were a sucker to pay anything at all and the owner seen you as weak and you ended up paying 500 dollars for nothing. Do whatever you want but he already sees you as weak and will have you brought back to police station again if you talk badly about him,nothing he can really do to you but you have already showed weakness so he will attempt to show his dominance over you again,Dont be a pu$$y this time around. If you have had problems in the past why would you go back to same hotel???? Why did you put up with it so long??? You need to look at yourself in the mirror and be a man in 2009. Dont let people push you around.
 
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SKY

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Pm me his name and hotel and I will give him a chance to see how good his Police connections really are.
 
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Lambada

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Sky, you can find out who it is by googling the SKCDN81 post on Trip Advisor. And when you do you'll find a response from the owner who posts there under the same name as someone who has 6 posts here on DR1 ;). Just thought I'd alert you :). Course it could all be coincidence & they could be different people.
 
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b.batista

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Read between the lines

7 people posted great reviews after the complaint from tomas2. 7 people that all are all first time posters on trip adviser. what a coincidence. anyone who believes any trip adviser reports is a sucker anyhow because they are the worst there is for true recomendations. 90% of them are from the owners and this case is no exception. I believe tomas 100% and I think that the place should be boycotted for posting all those fake reports on trip adviser. anyone reading them will notice that every single review talks about how wonderful the owners are and how they are the most friendly honest people in the world. This reviews smell of fake so much that it smells like dirty socks .
I will make a point of never recomending the casa blanca hotel again.
 

Eddy

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This can't be for real.

First mistake was going anywhere on the back of a cop's bike. The rest of the stuff was a waste of good time. Sorry for your 500.00 loss but that was surely not the brightest thing you've done in your life.
 
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And when you do you'll find a response from the owner who posts there under the same name as someone who has 6 posts here on DR1 ;). Just thought I'd alert you :). Course it could all be coincidence & they could be different people.

No coincidence. This c___w___m from DR1 is the same person as "management representative" of the c___ b____ hotel, just check the public visitor messages for this dr1 user in his profile.
 
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7 people posted great reviews after the complaint from tomas2. 7 people that all are all first time posters on trip adviser.

And interesting enough, those 7 TA posters never came back (last visit on TA was the date of their one and only post).
 
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francoisatl

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wow his motel and thats what it is looks like sh!t and why would you stay at that place what a dump
and looks like william is not a good guy and hides behind god what an @ss
well he will get his in the DR people will find out about him
 
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try the name together...in advanced search, search posts by username, put the username all together, will come up couple of posts... his last post in the "Cheating / porn'n'strip" thread
 

Lambada

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7 people posted great reviews after the complaint from tomas2. 7 people that all are all first time posters on trip adviser. what a coincidence.

Yes indeed but it wasn't after the complaint from tomas2 because I can't see a complaint from tomas2 on TA. It was after the complaint from SKCDN81 who I assume is a different person from tomas2. Is that right or am I going senile? :cheeky: My understanding is that after SKCDN81 posted on TA the owner wrote to tomas2 asking him to do a rebuttal report and when he refused to sugar coat it, the owner himself went on TA & gave a management response. Yes?

The post above by tomas2, first post in this thread, where he says he copy/pasted from a TA post - I can't see that report on TA so I'm assuming either he's holding it back pending advice here or TA are holding it back pending moderation or something.

It ought to be possible to verify if at least one of those TA reviews is for real - I see a poster there called dreamproject from Ithaca NY. There are enough people associated with the Dream Project who post on DR1 to know if a group of volunteers came in last July for Dream Project work & if that reviewer is a real person. Fine if it is, but if it isn't then the Dream Project supporters might want to pick up on this, because it is using their name.
 

Tamborista

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Holy Guacamole!

What did folks do before Al Gore invented the WWW?

Happy New Year!

tambo'
 

Arrica

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Further to the original question

Further to the original question on being arrested for libel; not a comment or question directly to the present case raised by OP, but from an academic angle on what you can be charged for or not in the DR.

In most countries, it does not warrant arrest for any criminal act, just because you have differing opinions and those incidently provide a negative picture of the first, as long as this is documented.

If the plaintif so wants, he can go to court to get apologies, and monetary compensation if libel charges are found to hold water and he would do such a civil lawsuit - which does imply the defendent to be arrested neither before nor during the process.

Considering the numerous differences of opinion that people have, between neighbors, shop-owners and clients, even (former :squareeye) friends, my logic tells me that the laws in the DR are similar - otherwise they would quickly fill up the prisons and detention centres - but I stand to be corrected
 

Lambada

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If the plaintif so wants, he can go to court to get apologies, and monetary compensation if libel charges are found to hold water and he would do such a civil lawsuit - which does imply the defendent to be arrested neither before nor during the process.

In the DR there is defamacion injuria but like you say, it is only defamatory if tomas2 is not telling the truth & according to him he has written evidence backing up his story.

So where is this cabarete william?

Well he isn't a frequent poster & he is a Pastor so he could be pastorising or busy with RE sales (this is a cached copy so as not to be spam)
Dominican Republic Property For Sale Make $12 million in 1.5 years build 72 condos - Commercial in Cabarete - Puerto Plata
and this says he's writing a book called Clergy Killers: Christians in Satan's Service - so he could be busy.
Untitled Document

But I'm sure that when he does see tomas2's post he will defend himself, badpiece, because he has done so in the past on TA & on his website.

tomas2, the only advice I can offer is that if your adversary is a reasonable, balanced, non-vindictive person there shouldn't be any difficulties if it is NOT libel which you clearly state. Libel laws here do not exact penalties for the truth. But perhaps you would be better seeking legal advice? (I am not a lawyer). On the other hand there are all the other sorts of under the radar penalties which people sometimes apply, so you might need to consider personal security. Alternatively, the man could be as sweet as a pussy cat and no threat at all. You just have to weigh all angles.
 

francoisatl

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what did we do before www we would act LIKE MEN and fight it out on the streets with guns
ok just joking
i just think it is very wrong to get a bad name in the DR and in a small town
i do think it is funny if you google the guy who owns the motel you find one of his church web site and he is talking some big **** about 2 guys and has photos of them on his web site WTF with that they could go after him
 

b.batista

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i do think it is funny if you google the guy who owns the motel you find one of his church web site and he is talking some big **** about 2 guys and has photos of them on his web site WTF with that they could go after him
This guy is easy to see through and all you have to do is read his website and you will know that he is a bad apple. Anybody that reads that website and still thinks that he is a decent person and a god worshipping pastor is blind. He is one of those guys who hides behind religion to commit his evil deeds just like terrorists that kill in the name of God. I am glad that tomas made his post and that the pastor is getting exposed. we don't need his kind in our country.
 
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After reading this guy's website about him being the leader against same sex marriage in Canada, I would be hard pressed to believe the name "Westboro Baptist Church" does not have a closer relationship to Phelps and Westboro of Topeka than this guy wants to admit

If so, be careful as these people (Westbor Baptist Church) are truly dangerous fanatics.

In recent years they (Westboro Baptists) have been in the news about trying to disrupt the funerals of Iraqi War Veterans as they were doing "Satan's wok" (According to Phelps and followers) Just Google Westboro Baptist or Phelps

No one advocates violence, but it seems these followers of Phelps don't like getting tapped up the side of the head, so understand this is their mentality
 
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