Back with another question(s)

TwentyFourSeven

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Hi folks! Some of you might remember me from THIS thread. Well I am now living in N.Y (again) near the Dominican Community in northwest Harlem. Now I know the Dominicans there have their annual parade to celebrate their culture here in the city but I want to understand something.

Haiti shares Hispanola with your country. Like you, they speak a different language from the rest of the English speaking Caribbean and are often not a part of the conversation when the English or Eastern Caribbean is being mentioned, however, come September (Labor Day) they can be found in rather large numbers in Brooklyn at the West Indian Carnival parade where Eastern Caribbean nationals and Jamaicans carouse. Who are conspicuously absent are the Dominicans who to some degree (at least for some) have connections to the Eastern Caribbean. Ironically, the Puerto Ricans are also not in the mix. You can find just about any other Caribbean flag flying in the breeze, but not a Dominican or Puerto Rican flag in sight and Puerto Rico is actually a mere 40 miles from the Virgin Islands AND they have a large community of descendants living on the English speaking island of St. Croix in the U.S Virgin Islands.

What is even more puzzling is that while Dominicans and Puerto Ricans are rare at the West Indian Carnival and one might be inclined to think it has something to do with both communities preferring to be associated more with the larger Latin American community, how do we explain the noticeable amount of Panamanians and Hondurans at the West Indian Carnival?

I also notice this is not just at the Labor Day Carnival. When I lived in South Florida and they had their Caribbean Carnival in both Miami and Ft. Lauderdale, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans were also scarce at those events too.

Does anyone have an opinion on why this is?

Oh, I realize the reverse is also true. I've never been to the Dominican parade but I doubt you can find two Trinidadians, Jamaicans or Virgin Islanders at their parade, however, what I find interesting is that the West Indian Carnival was originally held in Harlem. I'm not sure if Dominicans attended it then but stopped after it moved to Brooklyn.
 

Marianopolita

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Dec 26, 2003
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The history tells it all and go to Panama, I highly recommend a visit.

Look at the history of a few of those Central American countries and you will understand why. It's not a matter of opinion, it's just a fact. Panama's history is so interesting in terms of how the building of the canal brought a significant wave of people, specifically Black West Indians from Jamaica and Barbados to Panama for work. A smaller number of people from other islands such as Martinique and Trinidad also went to Panama because of the canal. Many Black Panamanians that you meet are of Jamaican descent or one parent is Panamanian and one is Jamaican, the second generation is completely Panamanian.

I have met many and all have a connection to one of the English-speaking Caribbean islands mentioned. Panamanians are proud of their cultural heritage and identify with the Spanish and English Caribbean since both are obviously part of their cultural history and roots. I think it's such a beautiful mix and feel great joy that they embrace both as part of who they are. Talk to some Panamanians since many speak English well learned in the home. As well, if you can take a trip to Panama City one day, you will see and understand more of what I am briefly stating here.

I once read that Black Hondurans identify with West Indians in New York mainly due to discrimination issues. It's much easier to blend in with the West Indian community abroad than face some of the discrimination in the Latin community although they are a Spanish-speaking foreign group like other Latinos. Costa Rica and Nicaragua also have a noticeable population of Jamaican descendants. As one Costa Rican once said to me regarding Panama 'it's the same movement of people'.

The prime factor that divides many of the Caribbean islands is language and then other secondary factors are culture and history but they all go hand in hand.


-LDG.
 
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cuas

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Puerto Rican and Dominicans have their own parade. Why go to another one where they will be a minority?
 
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"Puerto Rican and Dominicans have their own parade. Why go to another one where they will be a minority?"

One reason might be to show solidarity, another might be to show respect, and a third might be just to have some fun. But again, that's just me.
 

jruane44

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"Puerto Rican and Dominicans have their own parade. Why go to another one where they will be a minority?"

One reason might be to show solidarity, another might be to show respect, and a third might be just to have some fun. But again, that's just me.

I don't know how solidarity or respect have anything to do with it. The part about going to a normal parade to have fun, I would agree with,if the West Indian Day parade were a normal parade. I have been going to that parade for over twenty years and let me tell you I have never seen such disrespect by a group of people. A couple of years ago there were five murders along the parade route. The lawlessness that goes on in a total disgrace. People smoking weed in the streets. Drinking in public is not allowed at any other parade in NYC but some how is tolerated at this parade. My opinion.. Dominicans have nothing in common with these people other than geography.
 

TwentyFourSeven

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Look at the history of a few of those Central American countries and you will understand why. It's not a matter of opinion, it's just a fact. Panama's history is so interesting in terms of how the building of the canal brought a significant wave of people, specifically Black West Indians from Jamaica and Barbados to Panama for work. A smaller number of people from other islands such as Martinique and Trinidad also went to Panama because of the canal. Many Black Panamanians that you meet are of Jamaican descent or one parent is Panamanian and one is Jamaican, the second generation is completely Panamanian.

I have met many and all have a connection to one of the English-speaking Caribbean islands mentioned. Panamanians are proud of their cultural heritage and identify with the Spanish and English Caribbean since both are obviously part of their cultural history and roots. I think it's such a beautiful mix and feel great joy that they embrace both as part of who they are. Talk to some Panamanians since many speak English well learned in the home. As well, if you can take a trip to Panama City one day, you will see and understand more of what I am briefly stating here.

I once read that Black Hondurans identify with West Indians in New York mainly due to discrimination issues. It's much easier to blend in with the West Indian community abroad than face some of the discrimination in the Latin community although they are a Spanish-speaking foreign group like other Latinos. Costa Rica and Nicaragua also have a noticeable population of Jamaican descendants. As one Costa Rican once said to me regarding Panama 'it's the same movement of people'.

The prime factor that divides many of the Caribbean islands is language and then other secondary factors are culture and history but they all go hand in hand.


-LDG.

Thank you Leslie. That's a fantastic reply and yes, I do know that many Panamanians and Hondurans can relate to the English speaking Caribbean because of commonalities, however, as I mentioned up top, the same can be said about quite a bit of Dominicans, no?

It's interesting you should bring up the points you made because as I sit here, I'm putting together the foundations to explore that subject even further in a VERY unique way. The irony to all of this is that my idea was sparked by my connection to the Dominican Republic.

Cuas, thanks for the reply but if Dominicans showed up in Brooklyn on Labor Day, they would easily be in the majority. Based on their sheer numbers here, they would certainly stand out even if they sent only 1/3 of their NEw York population to represent.
 
Mar 2, 2008
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"I don't know how solidarity or respect have anything to do with it. The part about going to a normal parade to have fun, I would agree with,if the West Indian Day parade were a normal parade. I have been going to that parade for over twenty years and let me tell you I have never seen such disrespect by a group of people. A couple of years ago there were five murders along the parade route. The lawlessness that goes on in a total disgrace. People smoking weed in the streets. Drinking in public is not allowed at any other parade in NYC but some how is tolerated at this parade. My opinion.. Dominicans have nothing in common with these people other than geography."

jruane,

I will be the first to concede I do not know about the NYC parade specifically. I have never been in attendance, so I accept that what you say is the way it is, and if that is the case, you are absolutely right about staying away from it.

In my reference to the parades, I was speaking in general terms. In usual circumstances, a parade is meant to display ethic or regional pride, and is often also a display of unity and solidarity by those taking part. I thought that might be the case with the parades in NYC, but obviously I was wrong, and I stand corrected.

We do have a small Caribbean parade in Manchester, NH every year (at least for the several past years). That parade is well attended by diverse groups, and is a fun parade to watch or to participate in. I have seen many different flags and colors, and there has never been a problem. My assumptions were based solely on my observations of that event, and I can certainly see how the two are likely worlds apart.
 

TwentyFourSeven

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Feb 28, 2008
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I don't know how solidarity or respect have anything to do with it. The part about going to a normal parade to have fun, I would agree with,if the West Indian Day parade were a normal parade. I have been going to that parade for over twenty years and let me tell you I have never seen such disrespect by a group of people. A couple of years ago there were five murders along the parade route. The lawlessness that goes on in a total disgrace. People smoking weed in the streets. Drinking in public is not allowed at any other parade in NYC but some how is tolerated at this parade. My opinion.. Dominicans have nothing in common with these people other than geography.

June, I will give you this - it is YOUR opinion. The parade has been going on since the late 60s and I have been to a few and while I agree there has been incidents, I think it is gross exaggeration to make it sound like other Caribbean people are wild and out of control. Furthermore, the Caribbean parade in Brooklyn is held in the middle of a neighborhood where people live while the Dominican parade is held downtown in a business district and under HEAVY police supervision. Anything that happens on Eastern parkway on that day will be attached to the parade because the route is right up against apartment buildings in the area. As I am typing this, my girlfriend is looking up incidents that have occurred at the Dominican parade and she found one about a stabbing and the arrest of a gang called the DDP. If the Dominican parade was held in Washington Heights which has its own issues with crime like everywhere else, I'm sure the parade could possibly have its share of problems too. Dominicans are no better or worse than anyone else. They have their share of bad apples who MISrepresent the good of their community also.

As for Dominicans having 'nothing in common with THESE PEOPLE,' let me point you to a whole visible community of Dominicans whose ancestors came from the eastern Caribbean. In fact, one of your former leaders (in the 1850s) was of Haitian AND Danish Virgin Islands (now the U.S Virgin Islands) heritage. The migration of people from the eastern Caribbean began in his time all the way up to the 1950s. That's 100 years of intermingling between native Dominicans and people from other islands so don't forget about them and their contributions especially with your baseball heroes such as Hanley Ramirez.
 

TwentyFourSeven

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June I also forgot to add that you have far more in common than you think. You share more than you think. The Dominican Republic's makeup is just like all the other Caribbean islands. The combination involves black slaves, a colonizing European power, surviving native Americans and then all the others (Germans, Italians, etc) who came later on. That's the history of the ENTIRE Caribbean. The only difference after that is language.
 
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TwentyFourSeven

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By the way, let's take a look at a video by one of your famous native sons and pay careful attention to the details. The celebration ad style you see comes FROM Africa to the Dominican Republic by way of the Eastern Caribbean. In fact, over 30 years ago, long before I even knew I had a Dominican connection, I used to attend local parades with my grandmother in St. Kitts. What is startling is that what I used to see in St. Kitts almost 40 years ago is what I see in this video (from the Dominican Republic) from 10-15 years ago.


CLICK FOR VIDEO


Also note the association with cane in the video which is what the folks from the Eastern Caribbean came to the D.R to cut and harvest.
 

jruane44

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Jul 2, 2004
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June I also forgot to add that you have far more in common than you think. You share more than you think. The Dominican Republic's makeup is just like all the other Caribbean islands. The combination involves black slaves, a colonizing European power, surviving native Americans and then all the others (Germans, Italians, etc) who came later on. That's the history of the ENTIRE Caribbean. The only difference after that is language.

I have nothing in common being that I am Irish/American.
 
Mar 2, 2008
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"I have nothing in common being that I am Irish/American."

Perhaps considering the nature of Ireland itself, being a divided country, with the northern part being controlled by what many of its people consider to be a foreign power, and the fact that the economic impact of the devastating potato famine brought thousands of Irish farmers, who were on the brink of starvation, to seek refuge in other countries, might inspire a slight feeling of fraternity with others who are now in similar circumstances.