- Thread starter pierods
- Start date
if Mexico is falling, will DR stay up?
The DR is nowhere near as bad as Mexico for 'drug wars'. Mexico still has a lot of tourism but if that packs up, the tourists might come here instead, who knows?
Certainly the DR's drug situation needs working on, for sure, but we are not remotely in the Mexican situation. Yet.
Certainly the DR's drug situation needs working on, for sure, but we are not remotely in the Mexican situation. Yet.
The shear difference is that there isn't the violence on the streets as is the case in Mexico or Colombia, or the frequency. Mob killings, beheadings, gangland massacres and dumping dead bodies near schools has not become the norm here. Yet, the strength and pervasiveness of the drug business is in tact and just as affluent, influential and powerful as is in Mexico. Everyone has their fingers in the pot. From the generals to the politicians. The DR could be considered a "drug state", at the very least, yet there has been the ability for drugs and politics to maintain a certain "balance."
Mr. Lu
Mr. Lu
Wealthy Mexican citizens, for all their power and money, are just as much targets for organized criminals as any other Mexican citizen, as are high-ranking army/law enforcement officers and any of the various Mexican heads of state.
That to me is the key difference.
Also, its' true that drug money has corrupted all levels of both Mexican and Dominican societies, but the main difference is that in Mexico the narcos do not differentiate between man, woman and child. Anyone is fair game. There used to be boundaries-innocent civilians, women and children used to be off-limits but now nothing is sacred.
More people have been killed along the Northwest border between Mexico and the US in 2008 than American servicemen Iraq/Afghanistan COMBINED since the war started.
I highly doubt that the Dominican government would stand for that type of violence, but then again the flip side of the coin is that with so many armed forces leaders and politicians taking drug bribes, it maintains order. And the DR is much smaller and does not border the largest recreational drug market on Earth like Mexico does.
That to me is the key difference.
Also, its' true that drug money has corrupted all levels of both Mexican and Dominican societies, but the main difference is that in Mexico the narcos do not differentiate between man, woman and child. Anyone is fair game. There used to be boundaries-innocent civilians, women and children used to be off-limits but now nothing is sacred.
More people have been killed along the Northwest border between Mexico and the US in 2008 than American servicemen Iraq/Afghanistan COMBINED since the war started.
I highly doubt that the Dominican government would stand for that type of violence, but then again the flip side of the coin is that with so many armed forces leaders and politicians taking drug bribes, it maintains order. And the DR is much smaller and does not border the largest recreational drug market on Earth like Mexico does.
One could also argue the DR is but a mere player in this game, a pawn, and therefore there is no need for the real violence we see in other countries. Basically what I mean is that the DR is a drop off/pick up point for the drugs. That is it. There are no cartels, no Capos based here, there are no coca fields here, there are no strategic points aside from the country's geographic location. It's a laundering point. A safe haven. There are no real powers like there are in South and Central America and therefore there doesn't exist the need for the violence.
The DR and its drug runners are paid to play in the game. The Colombians and Mexicans created the game and control it. Dominicans take a stake and look away and while everyone's hands are getting greased it behooves them to keep violence at a minimum.
The DR is a beneficiary of the process as a whole and though it is a drug state in the sense that drugs and money reaches all the way to the top, the Dominicans inability to create an organized cartel to really challenge regional partners allows there to be a "general" sense of tranquility.
A lack of business skill, foresight, ambition, coordination, organization and lack of will? Sounds familiar.....
Mr. Lu
The DR and its drug runners are paid to play in the game. The Colombians and Mexicans created the game and control it. Dominicans take a stake and look away and while everyone's hands are getting greased it behooves them to keep violence at a minimum.
The DR is a beneficiary of the process as a whole and though it is a drug state in the sense that drugs and money reaches all the way to the top, the Dominicans inability to create an organized cartel to really challenge regional partners allows there to be a "general" sense of tranquility.
A lack of business skill, foresight, ambition, coordination, organization and lack of will? Sounds familiar.....
Mr. Lu
Like you said the DR is only a small player in the game, they don't produce the stuff and don't get to call the shots.
The situation in Mexico is a lot worst than the media reports and it is spilling over to the U.S. side. For some reason the media doesn't cover the violence/corruption in the U.S. border towns.
Perhaps there is no comparison, but in my opinion, the difference is only a matter of degrees.
For the time being, the DR is a minor player, and therefore is affected by less violence. But what happens if, at some point, a tipping point is reached? That is what developed in Mexico.
In Mexico, before that point was reached, tourists were not particularly concerned, corrupt officials didn't bother anyone not associated with drugs really, and the gangs more or less spread the wealth among themselves. In other words, it wasn't that bad, and most figured Mexico was still livable.
All of a sudden, to those who weren't paying attention, and believed that the status quo could and would prevail forever, there was a huge shift, and everyone involved began grabbing for everything they could get, not a pretty sight.
What happens when similar circumstances arise in the DR? What if the various entities involved is 'gentleman's agreement' decide their cut isn't large enough? What if the Columbians decide to cut out the middle man? (Well, we saw a small example of that in Bani.) What happens when there is wide-spread competition for control of this 'minor transfer station'?
There are a million 'what ifs', and the truth is, any one of them could lead to a tipping point on this small island.
My point is, a little corruption is generally considered to be okay, heck it might even be useful. The trouble is, once corruption is embedded in a system it has a tendency to grow. It takes on a life of its own, and then spreads like a cancer.
This may never happen in the DR, but it is worthy of consideration, if one chooses to spend a lifetime here. It never hurts to have a clear understanding of all the possible outcomes, and it doesn't hurt to have a back-up option, in case things don't go the way you planned.
That is an example of flexible thinking, which along with creative thinking and a sense of humor, are crucial attributes for an expat.
For the time being, the DR is a minor player, and therefore is affected by less violence. But what happens if, at some point, a tipping point is reached? That is what developed in Mexico.
In Mexico, before that point was reached, tourists were not particularly concerned, corrupt officials didn't bother anyone not associated with drugs really, and the gangs more or less spread the wealth among themselves. In other words, it wasn't that bad, and most figured Mexico was still livable.
All of a sudden, to those who weren't paying attention, and believed that the status quo could and would prevail forever, there was a huge shift, and everyone involved began grabbing for everything they could get, not a pretty sight.
What happens when similar circumstances arise in the DR? What if the various entities involved is 'gentleman's agreement' decide their cut isn't large enough? What if the Columbians decide to cut out the middle man? (Well, we saw a small example of that in Bani.) What happens when there is wide-spread competition for control of this 'minor transfer station'?
There are a million 'what ifs', and the truth is, any one of them could lead to a tipping point on this small island.
My point is, a little corruption is generally considered to be okay, heck it might even be useful. The trouble is, once corruption is embedded in a system it has a tendency to grow. It takes on a life of its own, and then spreads like a cancer.
This may never happen in the DR, but it is worthy of consideration, if one chooses to spend a lifetime here. It never hurts to have a clear understanding of all the possible outcomes, and it doesn't hurt to have a back-up option, in case things don't go the way you planned.
That is an example of flexible thinking, which along with creative thinking and a sense of humor, are crucial attributes for an expat.
This report is a little over a year old, but it makes for interesting reading. Here are the first few paragraphs.
==
CRS Report for Congress
Mexico's Drug Cartels
October 16, 2007
Colleen W. Cook
Analyst in Latin American Affairs
Foreign Affairs, Defense, and Trade Division
Mexico, a major drug producing and transit country, is the main foreign supplier of marijuana and a major supplier of methamphetamine to the United States. Although Mexico accounts for only a small share of worldwide heroin production, it supplies a large share of heroin consumed in the United States. An estimated 90% of cocaine entering the United States transits Mexico. Violence in the border region has affected U.S. citizens. More than 60 Americans have been kidnaped in Nuevo Laredo, and in July 2007, Mexican drug cartels reportedly threatened to kill a U.S. journalist covering drug violence in the border region. The United States and Mexico are reportedly negotiating a new counternarcotics initiative.
Although Mexican drug cartels, or drug trafficking organizations, have existed for quite some time, they have become more powerful since the demise of Colombia's Cali and Medell?n cartels in the 1990s. Mexican drug cartels now dominate the wholesale illicit drug market in the United States. Arrests of key cartel leaders, particularly in the Tijuana and Gulf cartels, have led to increasing drug violence as cartels fight for control of the trafficking routes into the United States. The Gulf and Sinaloa cartels reportedly use personal "enforcer gangs" to perpetuate violence and intimidate Mexican citizens and public officials. Mexican President Felipe Calder?n has called drug violence a threat to the Mexican state.
This report provides an overview of: Mexican cartels and their operations, including the nature of cartel ties to gangs such as the Mara Salvatrucha; Mexican cartel drug production in the United States; and the presence of Mexican cartel cells in the United States. Mexican cartels allegedly have used their vast financial resources to corrupt Mexican public officials who either turn a blind eye to cartel activities or work directly for them. Since 2005, the Mexican government has made numerous efforts to purge corrupt police. In December 2006, President Felipe Calder?n launched operations against the cartels in 9 of Mexico's 32 states. He has pledged to use extradition as a tool against drug traffickers, and sent 64 criminals to the United States as of August 2007, including the alleged head of the Gulf Cartel.
This report also examines potential policy approaches to the problem of drug trafficking and violence. Current U.S. and Mexican policy emphasizes interdiction and eradication. Supporters of this policy maintain that these efforts have reduced the supply of drugs in the United States. Critics maintain that Administration officials have refused to release data showing that cocaine prices are falling, suggesting that the drug supply is growing, not shrinking. These critics suggest that more emphasis should be placed on demand reduction in the United States, including drug prevention education and treatment. The Mexican government urges the United States to increase its efforts to reduce U.S. demand for drugs, stating that it cannot succeed in its efforts against the cartels so long as cartels stand to earn billions of dollars annually from the U.S. illicit drug market. Critics of current policy, including the Mexican government, are also calling for increased efforts to combat arms trafficking from the United States to Mexico. This report may be updated. For further information on Mexico, see CRS Report RL32724, Mexico-U.S. Relations: Issues for Congress, by Colleen W. Cook.
LINK
==
CRS Report for Congress
Mexico's Drug Cartels
October 16, 2007
Colleen W. Cook
Analyst in Latin American Affairs
Foreign Affairs, Defense, and Trade Division
Mexico, a major drug producing and transit country, is the main foreign supplier of marijuana and a major supplier of methamphetamine to the United States. Although Mexico accounts for only a small share of worldwide heroin production, it supplies a large share of heroin consumed in the United States. An estimated 90% of cocaine entering the United States transits Mexico. Violence in the border region has affected U.S. citizens. More than 60 Americans have been kidnaped in Nuevo Laredo, and in July 2007, Mexican drug cartels reportedly threatened to kill a U.S. journalist covering drug violence in the border region. The United States and Mexico are reportedly negotiating a new counternarcotics initiative.
Although Mexican drug cartels, or drug trafficking organizations, have existed for quite some time, they have become more powerful since the demise of Colombia's Cali and Medell?n cartels in the 1990s. Mexican drug cartels now dominate the wholesale illicit drug market in the United States. Arrests of key cartel leaders, particularly in the Tijuana and Gulf cartels, have led to increasing drug violence as cartels fight for control of the trafficking routes into the United States. The Gulf and Sinaloa cartels reportedly use personal "enforcer gangs" to perpetuate violence and intimidate Mexican citizens and public officials. Mexican President Felipe Calder?n has called drug violence a threat to the Mexican state.
This report provides an overview of: Mexican cartels and their operations, including the nature of cartel ties to gangs such as the Mara Salvatrucha; Mexican cartel drug production in the United States; and the presence of Mexican cartel cells in the United States. Mexican cartels allegedly have used their vast financial resources to corrupt Mexican public officials who either turn a blind eye to cartel activities or work directly for them. Since 2005, the Mexican government has made numerous efforts to purge corrupt police. In December 2006, President Felipe Calder?n launched operations against the cartels in 9 of Mexico's 32 states. He has pledged to use extradition as a tool against drug traffickers, and sent 64 criminals to the United States as of August 2007, including the alleged head of the Gulf Cartel.
This report also examines potential policy approaches to the problem of drug trafficking and violence. Current U.S. and Mexican policy emphasizes interdiction and eradication. Supporters of this policy maintain that these efforts have reduced the supply of drugs in the United States. Critics maintain that Administration officials have refused to release data showing that cocaine prices are falling, suggesting that the drug supply is growing, not shrinking. These critics suggest that more emphasis should be placed on demand reduction in the United States, including drug prevention education and treatment. The Mexican government urges the United States to increase its efforts to reduce U.S. demand for drugs, stating that it cannot succeed in its efforts against the cartels so long as cartels stand to earn billions of dollars annually from the U.S. illicit drug market. Critics of current policy, including the Mexican government, are also calling for increased efforts to combat arms trafficking from the United States to Mexico. This report may be updated. For further information on Mexico, see CRS Report RL32724, Mexico-U.S. Relations: Issues for Congress, by Colleen W. Cook.
LINK
Unless one is well-versed in Latin American affairs, I really don't think people should consider Mexico any more dangerous than it has been just because a few gringos are whining about violence.
Mexico is and has been violent because the drug cartels have created an atmosphere that is untenable in certain portions of their country. Here is one reason why.
The United States poured millions of dollars into helping Mexico train their police forces. Some have even been trained in the US.
Once they received their training, they were recruited by the drug cartels, who were able to offer them more money. These guys aren't your run of the mill "sicarios", doing drive-bys on motos while high on crack and PCP.
These assassins are highly trained in military OPs, paid for thank you very much by Uncle Sam.
Now Mexico is fighting the very elite troops that the US paid to train. The irony boggles the mind.
So the US, because of their failure to come up with realistic solutions to their failed war on drugs, cannot do anything except come up with the same ideas that do not work. Except this particular idea backfired on them worse than the others and Mexico is paying the price in blood.
The new Mexican President decided to make a move based solely on the politics of appeasing the US with his "get tough on crime" stance.
A couple of cartel heads were removed, leaving a power vacuum that many are fiending to fill, hence another reason the violence is so out of control.
As for the DR, they may be bit players, but their influence cannot be discounted, as there are Dominican drug gangs that operate from Miami all the way to the tip of Maine. They may not be active on the wholesale side, but they are active on the distribution side out on the streets.
There isn't a city anywhere on the East Coast where Dominicans do not have a hand in the street-level sale of cocaine.
One cannot discount how much of that drug money has influenced DR politics and law enforcement ever since the advent of crack in the mid-eighties. The money made on those streets that gets sent back to the island is enormous and its' influence cannot be disregarded.
Mexico is and has been violent because the drug cartels have created an atmosphere that is untenable in certain portions of their country. Here is one reason why.
The United States poured millions of dollars into helping Mexico train their police forces. Some have even been trained in the US.
Once they received their training, they were recruited by the drug cartels, who were able to offer them more money. These guys aren't your run of the mill "sicarios", doing drive-bys on motos while high on crack and PCP.
These assassins are highly trained in military OPs, paid for thank you very much by Uncle Sam.
Now Mexico is fighting the very elite troops that the US paid to train. The irony boggles the mind.
So the US, because of their failure to come up with realistic solutions to their failed war on drugs, cannot do anything except come up with the same ideas that do not work. Except this particular idea backfired on them worse than the others and Mexico is paying the price in blood.
The new Mexican President decided to make a move based solely on the politics of appeasing the US with his "get tough on crime" stance.
A couple of cartel heads were removed, leaving a power vacuum that many are fiending to fill, hence another reason the violence is so out of control.
As for the DR, they may be bit players, but their influence cannot be discounted, as there are Dominican drug gangs that operate from Miami all the way to the tip of Maine. They may not be active on the wholesale side, but they are active on the distribution side out on the streets.
There isn't a city anywhere on the East Coast where Dominicans do not have a hand in the street-level sale of cocaine.
One cannot discount how much of that drug money has influenced DR politics and law enforcement ever since the advent of crack in the mid-eighties. The money made on those streets that gets sent back to the island is enormous and its' influence cannot be disregarded.
Last edited:
I disagree with your statement that is not any more dangerous than it has been..It is more dangerous now and cities that were once safe to visit no longer are. They are no longer targeting specific people but are doing drive by shootings and exploding bombs in crowded areas and kidnappings of those that have family in the U.S. are very common.
Is this your opinion or fact?
"There isn't a city anywhere on the East Coast where Dominicans do not have a hand in the street-level sale of cocaine. "
I quote myself-"Unless one is well-versed in Latin American affairs, I really don't think people should consider Mexico any more dangerous than it has been just because a few gringos are whining about violence.
Mexico is and has been violent because the drug cartels have created an atmosphere that is untenable in certain portions of their country."
Yes, the violence is escalating at certain border towns, but it is irresponsible to say that it is more dangerous NOW because it is effecting the expats that live there.
I hope this clears up any misconceptions about what I am saying.
This is fact. Look up the statistics of federal drug convictions and deportations of illegal immigrants on drug charges from the East Coast region of the United States. I never said they dominated, but their presence cannot be denied.
There was also an article written in the New York Daily News from the 1990's chronicling this very issue that I remember quite well.
As for personal experience, my prep school buddies from Springfield, Massachusetts all the way to Bangor, Maine all had Dominican drug connects. They even made house calls on campus.
Last edited:
As far as what will happen to the DR, I don't think we will ever be a major trafficking point for a number of reasons.
1. As long as the border with the States remains porous, their is really no need to have large amounts of drugs pass throught the DR on the way to the States as the ease of the overland route does not compare to the more difficult open sea route.
2. The DR does not have the stark social problems that Mexicao has. The DR is much less racist and classist than Mexico and this has to be a large influence as there is much less friction between said classes and races here. I think the homogenity of the DR has influenced this country to be much more peaceful than many of it's LA neighbors.
1. As long as the border with the States remains porous, their is really no need to have large amounts of drugs pass throught the DR on the way to the States as the ease of the overland route does not compare to the more difficult open sea route.
2. The DR does not have the stark social problems that Mexicao has. The DR is much less racist and classist than Mexico and this has to be a large influence as there is much less friction between said classes and races here. I think the homogenity of the DR has influenced this country to be much more peaceful than many of it's LA neighbors.
No, I still disagree with you, Chip!
http://www.dr1.com/forums/general-s...els-target-mexican-military-6.html#post520153
http://www.dr1.com/forums/general-s...els-target-mexican-military-6.html#post520153
This is the reason the war on drugs will not be won...
There's too much money to be made in feeding people's voracious appetites for recreational pharmaceuticals.
That's one of several pictures, from a raid in Mexico City, which netted over 200 million US$, almost two years ago...
LINK
There's too much money to be made in feeding people's voracious appetites for recreational pharmaceuticals.
That's one of several pictures, from a raid in Mexico City, which netted over 200 million US$, almost two years ago...
LINK
Last edited:
Recreational Phamaceuticals
Fernbee is quite right in her correct naming of these substances.
IMHO, this is a TRADE war.
One team, we have the industrialized North running the UN, the World Bank, the FMI, -- call them the NORTH They have the military power, the control of the global financial system, and heretofor, the moral leadership.
On the other team, let's call them - the SOUTH- we have the major producers of the world's most powerful naturally growing psychotropic substances, coca, heroin, and marijuana,
North says: Your naturally growing substances are dangerous and illegal. We going to outlaw them and deny you access to our markets. You will not be able to trade with that money. That money is "illegal" . We can make synthetic substitutes for those products which will be less harmful to our population and more easily controlled. In addition, our companies will be able to hold the patents on them.
Those drugs are "wrong".Our drugs, pharmaceuticals, which we call "medicines" are right and good.
We are allowing alcohol which we know is dangerous,
And we have messed up tobacco , which was also a natural medicine but we were too stupid to know how to use it so we turned it into a killer drug.
The South says:
NAH. Your synthetics can't do the job as well as our natural substances. We can even alter our substances, tinker with them, so that your population will become crazed and addicted.
You white men cannot handle coca the way we can down here in Peru.
Remember what you did to our brothers at Wounded Knee?
That bit about the small pox infested Blankets?
Yo, The ALMO is ours, Hermano, give it back.
If the North were to simply cede the game and legalize the heretofor banned narcotics, which it will eventually have to do, the color of the skin of the men sitting around the Table at the World Bank and the FMI would change overnight.
They would be Afghani (world's largest and best heroin producer). Bolivian (coca), Jamaica (ganja) and Morroco (hashish). IMAGINE that....:cheeky::cheeky:
Now marijuana can be grown anywhere indoors and even British Columbia is doing a fine business of exporting it.
The DR should ease up on the pressure here. Overlook the cannibis satvia, which was here long before Columbus. Allow the DEA to deal with transhiment and
CRACK DOWN ON CRACK
Fernbee is quite right in her correct naming of these substances.
IMHO, this is a TRADE war.
One team, we have the industrialized North running the UN, the World Bank, the FMI, -- call them the NORTH They have the military power, the control of the global financial system, and heretofor, the moral leadership.
On the other team, let's call them - the SOUTH- we have the major producers of the world's most powerful naturally growing psychotropic substances, coca, heroin, and marijuana,
North says: Your naturally growing substances are dangerous and illegal. We going to outlaw them and deny you access to our markets. You will not be able to trade with that money. That money is "illegal" . We can make synthetic substitutes for those products which will be less harmful to our population and more easily controlled. In addition, our companies will be able to hold the patents on them.
Those drugs are "wrong".Our drugs, pharmaceuticals, which we call "medicines" are right and good.
We are allowing alcohol which we know is dangerous,
And we have messed up tobacco , which was also a natural medicine but we were too stupid to know how to use it so we turned it into a killer drug.
The South says:
NAH. Your synthetics can't do the job as well as our natural substances. We can even alter our substances, tinker with them, so that your population will become crazed and addicted.
You white men cannot handle coca the way we can down here in Peru.
Remember what you did to our brothers at Wounded Knee?
That bit about the small pox infested Blankets?
Yo, The ALMO is ours, Hermano, give it back.
If the North were to simply cede the game and legalize the heretofor banned narcotics, which it will eventually have to do, the color of the skin of the men sitting around the Table at the World Bank and the FMI would change overnight.
They would be Afghani (world's largest and best heroin producer). Bolivian (coca), Jamaica (ganja) and Morroco (hashish). IMAGINE that....:cheeky::cheeky:
Now marijuana can be grown anywhere indoors and even British Columbia is doing a fine business of exporting it.
The DR should ease up on the pressure here. Overlook the cannibis satvia, which was here long before Columbus. Allow the DEA to deal with transhiment and
CRACK DOWN ON CRACK
Last edited:
I hear what you are saying and respect your opinion, but I truly believe the geographic differences coupled with the less class and racial issues than Mexico will prevent the DR from becoming more than what it is now.
In my many conversations with Dominicans and Mexicans (mostly migrant workers from Florida and SC) I see a very, very stark difference with regards to classisim and racism. Mexico has a very severe problem with this and inevitably and understandibly this will fuel discontent, mistrust and apathy; which can all lead to citizens foregoing their normal reservations about being involved in illegal activities.
Furthermore, as long as Mexico's situation deteriorates there will be a less and less chance that the DR would become a bigger player. If the US is at some point able to close the land border with Mexico especially in the event of instability in Mexico, simple logistics will demand that the East and West coast areas of Mexico would be used as supply depos for drugs entering the US by sea.
many great posts on this subject, even not in agreement many different points are taken well, and that shows the complexity of the drug problem.
a crash down of mexico i would see as a very big danger for the DR, because then less moves over that land connected border than more needs to look for a alternative route, by sea, and one of those routes, even by far not the only one, is def the DR.
amounts of kidnappings and killings in case of drugwar ocassions can hardly be compared between Mexico and the DR, just look on the difference of size, specially the quantity of citizens.
Mexico has more citizens living down on the lowest and fully desperated level where they would do anything, absolutely anything to be on the road of dreams to get "rich" than the DR has citizens over all.
for a 'just throu traffic' and storage location i would name the drug related incidents here on the island very high, Bani is by far not any kind of exception, such happens here once in a while, not just once.
legalize it???
you're kidding me and also everybody who sent his boy over there in those 'drugwars' to make the big guys richer.
in the article shown on the link provided by the OP one of the 'phrases' stated that the growing dangerous situations in the US vacation paradise Mexico are or maybe become the biggest danger/challenge for the US even over Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan aso.
heck, now that sounds just like a real joke to me, or just somebody wanna move the public's focus from the real dangers towards something else.
just in case that this vaca paradise falls into hell, hey, close that border and spend your vacation in the DR, on Jamaica, fly to the Bahamas or visit Europe, the Virgin islands are not that bad neither.
all those drugs are entering the US because there are powers who allow them to enter the country, or at least they do by far not all in their power to stop such. the gubmin wanna change that? o.k., stop your incredible huge payments for the production of those incredibly expensive missiles/bombs to be dropped and used for useless killings somewhere aso and just use that money to stock up and train your border control to stop that anything not wanted enters your country. but of course there are so many interests involved making billions of greenbucks out of it every year, who the heck wanna stop that?
corruption?
i don't like that word much, it sounds to weak to me for the effects of it's existance.
somebody, anybody, independent of his position within a gubmin or what ever institution, who get caught for involvement in such should get punished as a top enemy of it's people and not just named "corrupt", but hey, to do so we would need the big guys to agree to such, right? would they kick their own a$$es?
no country can replace it's whole staff at once.
and who we would assign to do so?
where we would get the people from to be the replacement, other than the same we wanna replace?
we are talking about "drugwars", kidnappings and assasinations in Mexico related to a thing/stuff/snow consumed in every class/level/society part of the US(it is not just the US and i don't want to offend americans here, but the thread is about Mexico and it's influence for the US).
i bet the white house or the pentagon with all their families are not an exception on that customer's listing.
and as long as they kill each others in an other country to get that snow to fall down over DC ....
just my simple 2cents
Mike
a crash down of mexico i would see as a very big danger for the DR, because then less moves over that land connected border than more needs to look for a alternative route, by sea, and one of those routes, even by far not the only one, is def the DR.
amounts of kidnappings and killings in case of drugwar ocassions can hardly be compared between Mexico and the DR, just look on the difference of size, specially the quantity of citizens.
Mexico has more citizens living down on the lowest and fully desperated level where they would do anything, absolutely anything to be on the road of dreams to get "rich" than the DR has citizens over all.
for a 'just throu traffic' and storage location i would name the drug related incidents here on the island very high, Bani is by far not any kind of exception, such happens here once in a while, not just once.
legalize it???
you're kidding me and also everybody who sent his boy over there in those 'drugwars' to make the big guys richer.
in the article shown on the link provided by the OP one of the 'phrases' stated that the growing dangerous situations in the US vacation paradise Mexico are or maybe become the biggest danger/challenge for the US even over Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan aso.
heck, now that sounds just like a real joke to me, or just somebody wanna move the public's focus from the real dangers towards something else.
just in case that this vaca paradise falls into hell, hey, close that border and spend your vacation in the DR, on Jamaica, fly to the Bahamas or visit Europe, the Virgin islands are not that bad neither.
all those drugs are entering the US because there are powers who allow them to enter the country, or at least they do by far not all in their power to stop such. the gubmin wanna change that? o.k., stop your incredible huge payments for the production of those incredibly expensive missiles/bombs to be dropped and used for useless killings somewhere aso and just use that money to stock up and train your border control to stop that anything not wanted enters your country. but of course there are so many interests involved making billions of greenbucks out of it every year, who the heck wanna stop that?
corruption?
i don't like that word much, it sounds to weak to me for the effects of it's existance.
somebody, anybody, independent of his position within a gubmin or what ever institution, who get caught for involvement in such should get punished as a top enemy of it's people and not just named "corrupt", but hey, to do so we would need the big guys to agree to such, right? would they kick their own a$$es?
no country can replace it's whole staff at once.
and who we would assign to do so?
where we would get the people from to be the replacement, other than the same we wanna replace?
we are talking about "drugwars", kidnappings and assasinations in Mexico related to a thing/stuff/snow consumed in every class/level/society part of the US(it is not just the US and i don't want to offend americans here, but the thread is about Mexico and it's influence for the US).
i bet the white house or the pentagon with all their families are not an exception on that customer's listing.
and as long as they kill each others in an other country to get that snow to fall down over DC ....
just my simple 2cents
Mike
I think that the situation in Mexico should be a warning to us (expats and locals alike).
Mexico has a long time history of drug wars, drug corruption, drug lords and drug mafias. Obviously, Mexico has a unique location, having a loooooong border with it's primary customer... the US. However, the visible problem is not the export, it's the turf war for national distribution and retail.
the DR, has an equally long history being a government santioned re-distribution platform for traffic coming in from Latin America bound to Europe and the US.
However, what has noticeably changed in the last what, 5 years(?) is the appearance and subsequent rapid acceptation of a booming local retail market and together with that turf wars at all levels. If this is the direction it will continue going, we may very well meet the same faith Mexico, parts of Brazil, Colombia and Venezuela have met or about to meet.
... J-D.
Mexico has a long time history of drug wars, drug corruption, drug lords and drug mafias. Obviously, Mexico has a unique location, having a loooooong border with it's primary customer... the US. However, the visible problem is not the export, it's the turf war for national distribution and retail.
the DR, has an equally long history being a government santioned re-distribution platform for traffic coming in from Latin America bound to Europe and the US.
However, what has noticeably changed in the last what, 5 years(?) is the appearance and subsequent rapid acceptation of a booming local retail market and together with that turf wars at all levels. If this is the direction it will continue going, we may very well meet the same faith Mexico, parts of Brazil, Colombia and Venezuela have met or about to meet.
... J-D.
Reason for the surge in the DR
Is the downfall of the regime in Haiti and the presence of MINUSTAH. I have if from a high and reliable source that 6 or so years ago the vast majority of the drugs that were being transhipped through this island were being transhipped through Haiti.
One can research the number of the people affiliated with Aristide who are now in prison in the US (including people like the head of drug control, the head of security at American Airlines, etc) to see why things got bad on this side of the island when that regime fell.
My source estimates that now 90% of the drugs that are transshipped come from this side of the Island. The other issue is that now almost 20% of the dealers are paying in "product" so that that stays here in the country, creating addicts on the ground.
And of course, giving the nature of greed, much of this product gets reduced to crack --- since that is what makes more money and is what the poor can afford. Crack is also rapidly addicting and quickly captures the "conscience". While many, many people in the world are casual cocaine users, there is no such thing as a casual crack user. Crack is a quick addiction and few people come back..You will sell every thing you own, your body, and your children to get your fix.
So if there is to be a clean up here on the Island, it must come from Dominicans who take their own country in hand and deal themselves with the people who are paying their employees in product rather than cash.
THAT is the only solution for us all.
Otherwise..............
BTW.... I believe that in researching you will find that the murder rate in Jamaica is the highest in the hemisphere because the traffic there is between ganja from there and guns from Haiti. So that will not be viable alternative location.
I have a foreign passport, as do many of us on these boards, so I can always leave. But for many here, this is home.
For those of you - educate yourselves on this issue - understand the differences between cocaine and crack -- educate your children, protect your barrios, start talking in your churches.... take your country in hand.
Is the downfall of the regime in Haiti and the presence of MINUSTAH. I have if from a high and reliable source that 6 or so years ago the vast majority of the drugs that were being transhipped through this island were being transhipped through Haiti.
One can research the number of the people affiliated with Aristide who are now in prison in the US (including people like the head of drug control, the head of security at American Airlines, etc) to see why things got bad on this side of the island when that regime fell.
My source estimates that now 90% of the drugs that are transshipped come from this side of the Island. The other issue is that now almost 20% of the dealers are paying in "product" so that that stays here in the country, creating addicts on the ground.
And of course, giving the nature of greed, much of this product gets reduced to crack --- since that is what makes more money and is what the poor can afford. Crack is also rapidly addicting and quickly captures the "conscience". While many, many people in the world are casual cocaine users, there is no such thing as a casual crack user. Crack is a quick addiction and few people come back..You will sell every thing you own, your body, and your children to get your fix.
So if there is to be a clean up here on the Island, it must come from Dominicans who take their own country in hand and deal themselves with the people who are paying their employees in product rather than cash.
THAT is the only solution for us all.
Otherwise..............
BTW.... I believe that in researching you will find that the murder rate in Jamaica is the highest in the hemisphere because the traffic there is between ganja from there and guns from Haiti. So that will not be viable alternative location.
I have a foreign passport, as do many of us on these boards, so I can always leave. But for many here, this is home.
For those of you - educate yourselves on this issue - understand the differences between cocaine and crack -- educate your children, protect your barrios, start talking in your churches.... take your country in hand.
Last edited:
Makes sense. I like how asides from the obvious goals of relieving prisons, and allowing for more focus on the bigger dealers - part of the focus is to act as a way to prevent police from shaking down addicts. I think thats a good measure - what good is a law if it's only punishable by another crime which rewards authorities? DR should follow suit - one less thing cops could be dirty about.