My vent thread for the first quarter of 2009

SKing

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Nov 22, 2007
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So...everyone knows that black women are stubborn. We only hear what we want to hear and only take the advice we want to take. But alas, 6 months after moving to the DR...I realize that I cannot save the world. Sad but true.
I realize that you may Help, HElp, HELp, and HELP! people but the moment that you say NO...they do not remember that help...they only hear the NO.
Dominicans are notoriously well versed and trained in playing the victim...and I am tired. So very very tired. Like just ran a marathon after not sleeping for 2 nights tired.
I am tired of the campo and the people in it...
AZB...I am ready to graduate to middle class. Someone who won't tell me that they want to visit me but don't have money for the guagua. Or worse yet...the "friend" that showed up at my house via taxi, and after hugs and cheek kisses, let me know that the taxi was 150RD, as she proceeded to enter my home.
A sister is tired and I'm about to take off my earrings. And we all know what happens when a sister takes off her earrings;)
SHALENA
 
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Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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Sister King: Welcome to the reality of living here. And you, such a grounded person..

Be patient, come over here for coffee every now and then, or go see AZB or Chip or Texas Bill or Dan )Santiago DR).....we're here for you.

Let me know, I think maybe I can show you a couple of things...at the university for example...

Hugs gal..don't sweat the earrings!!

HB
 

Berzin

Banned
Nov 17, 2004
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Just don't resort to putting vaseline on your face. If it gets to that, I think someone would need to come and get you.:cheeky:
 

J D Sauser

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Nov 20, 2004
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Don't say "no", just say "ahora no tengo, mi amor", all with a big warm smile.
That's what they do, that's what they hear among their own people and that's what they understand.
Saying "no" to them, sounds like you do have but you won't. Bad! They think that IF they HAD they WOULD (and some really would, which leads back to them not having). If you don't have, you can't and you're just like them.

The "friend" who came to visit and presented the taxi bill to you... he/she is an abusador(a)... but if you face it off with a sorry "ahora no tengo ahora mi amor"... she/he will either accidentally "find" some money somewhere, or walz off p'd off and never come back... either way, you win.

... J-D.
 

Thandie

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Nov 27, 2007
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A sister is tired and I'm about to take off my earrings. And we all know what happens when a sister takes off her earrings;)
SHALENA

LOL!
Thanks for the laugh! I can totally understand what you are saying girl.
I almost had to take off my earrings on the guagua today too!
Last week it was a cop in Central Park who told me he liked my sunglasses and with his fresh self asked me to 'BUY' him a pair. Had to give him a piece of my mind in Spanish, English and Jamaican LOL.
There is only so much a person can take.

I am not sure if being a single woman here adds magnifies this issue but.....

I have travelled and lived in over 40 countries...many much more poor than the DR, but I have never experienced in all my travels the 'amount' of people who think they can take advantage of you and think that you are a fool.
(I have my theories on why...) But their elementary school cons are so obvious and predictable its insulting. My biggest pet peeve is when someone insults my intelligence. It really is tiring.

I am lucky to have a handful of very good hearted, non materialistic, 'educated', Dominican friends, that want nothing from me and I can trust. These are the people I can relax, relate to and feel comfortable with. But based on other experiences I am not rushing out to broaden my circle of DR friends here. For the time being I cool with this handful!
Which is very difficult for me because I am such a people person and like to make friends with all types of people from different backgrounds, but I have realized you just cant do that here. In Canada I would shamefully call myself an elitist, but here I call it being smart!

My Dominican friends back in Toronto warned me on how many people in their country will try to take advantage of me...but I thought how bad can it be compared to country X, Y or Z? I have seen everything in my vast amount of travels.
After living here for a total of 6 months I understand how bad it can be (well I learned in the first 6 days)!

Even though it hurts me to say this, on this topic AZB is correct IMO.
 

Lambada

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Don't say "no", just say "ahora no tengo, mi amor", all with a big warm smile.
That's what they do, that's what they hear among their own people and that's what they understand.
Saying "no" to them, sounds like you do have but you won't. Bad! They think that IF they HAD they WOULD (and some really would, which leads back to them not having). If you don't have, you can't and you're just like them.

The "friend" who came to visit and presented the taxi bill to you... he/she is an abusador(a)... but if you face it off with a sorry "ahora no tengo ahora mi amor"... she/he will either accidentally "find" some money somewhere, or walz off p'd off and never come back... either way, you win.
... J-D.

This is 100% correct. It can never be 'no'. It must be 'I would if I could, you know that, but right now I don't have'. And the taxi visitor ' Wonderful to see you, but what are we going to do about your taxi driver? I haven't got any money right now. Maybe you could get back in the taxi and explain to him while you're driving home?' firmly helping her to exit your property with an assisting arm on her shoulder.

Does this conflict with your sense of honesty, SKing? It won't after a while. Getting uptight with the taxi visitor, hands on hips, 'don't you ever pull that stunt on me again, sister' doesn't work here and it is unnecessary agro. But 'oh dear, what do we do, I don't have money either' puts you together facing a very common problem. A solution WILL be found ;) as JD says.

Do everything good humouredly with firm charm. And, to de-stress, stop feeling responsible for everyone else. You're not responsible for their bills. You are responsible for empathising with their bad fortune, if you want to stay friends. See the difference?

You need to train people that SKing is not the never-ending money box. You trained your children, you trained your puppies, adopt similar behavioural methodology. And before anyone jumps on me for saying Dominicans are 'children or 'puppies', which I'm not, let me be clear. What you are really doing, of course, is training yourself. You say

Dominicans are notoriously well versed and trained in playing the victim...

and Thandie says something similar. I would just ask, is it this? Or is it that we gringos are conditioned to believe we must make ourselves responsible for everything & everyone else? A sort of unconscious 'masters of the world' dominance? Emanating from centuries of internalised first world pre-eminence.

I don't know, but I do know we are the foreigners here. It is up to us to make the shift in attitude, not the locals.
 

Thandie

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and Thandie says something similar. I would just ask, is it this? Or is it that we gringos are conditioned to believe we must make ourselves responsible for everything & everyone else? A sort of unconscious 'masters of the world' dominance? Emanating from centuries of internalised first world pre-eminence.

But its not just 'we gringos' who complain about this 'give me/unreasonable expectations/abusador' culture. The locals do too! I have a boat load of similar stories they have shared with me.
We recently saw a similar post on DR1 by a Dominican female complaining and frustrated about her family members demands and expectations.
My professional Dominican friends who recently moved to Toronto, they all had this similar complaint/stories to varying degrees.
They also all 'strongly' warned me about this. I was constantly told before I came here 'cuidad with my people because many will try to take advantage'.
And my middle class/wealthy Dominican friends presently living in the DR have complained about this issue with me as well.

One well off Dominican friend recently told me he had to put a 'stop eating my food' sign on his fridge door because some relatives were constantly coming to his house, eating all his food when he was not home and his wife was alone (putting her in an uncomfortable situation)...because 'hey we know uncle has money'. And when the abusador relative asked him why he did that he blasted them into the middle of next week (in some situations the 'I dont have it now' excuse does not work, especially when they know you do have it). He told me they are my family but they were taking advantantage of me, and treating me like a fool so I had to put my foot down.

But I agree accept the situation for what it is and adjust your attitude.
I dont try to change anyone, expect them to 'get it' or mother anyone. No one else is my responsibility unless I decide to become a parent one day.
...I am only very close friends with and spend my time with people who can buy their own dinner or pay for their share of the taxi, share the same values I hold dear. I dont tolerate anything less.

Sking...look on the bright side...now you know who your TRUE friends are or are not! You didnt see their true colours before, but now you see it in 3-D!
Not everything is at it appears here in paradise. Better to know now than later on right?
I sent you a PM.
 
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gmiller261

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Dec 29, 2002
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Amen

I realize that you may Help, HElp, HELp, and HELP! people but the moment that you say NO...they do not remember that help...they only hear the NO.

I am afraid it is inbred.
 

J D Sauser

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I attest that white women can also be stubborn. :cheeky:


I attest that I can be stubborn too, and I am not a woman... heck, I don't don't even wear ear rings. :bored: :cheeky:



About the helping thing and those helped forgetting past deeds.
Well, what do you think people here would do with a mango tree would it suddenly stop to give them fruits? They'd cut it down and use it to fire up a nice BBQ.

Maybe the ticked is, to shift your ID away from being the "helping person".
You can still help, but always make sure, you as a person will not look like the mango tree which gives while nobody really knows why.

I help two little girls... I DON'T help their big brother, sisters not even the mom or the grand parents. They all could use help (and a good whoopin' too), but they are adults now, and if they'd be willing to help themselves just a little better... they'd be over a 100% better off. I refuse to play mango tree and feed those who are unwilling to even reach for the fruits.
The kids, I make it look like it's not that I am "helping" them... I became their godfather and do what I deem my responsibilities as such.
I don't play nice guy, I don't care for that Pat Boone image... (I rather still dig Jerry Lee Lewis... I'm a wild child!).

You can't afford having a soft image or you will be run over by those who then think they are smart doing so.

... J-D.
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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This is 100% correct. It can never be 'no'. It must be 'I would if I could, you know that, but right now I don't have'. And the taxi visitor ' Wonderful to see you, but what are we going to do about your taxi driver? I haven't got any money right now. Maybe you could get back in the taxi and explain to him while you're driving home?' firmly helping her to exit your property with an assisting arm on her shoulder.
That may solve the moment, but not the long term. They KNOW you have $$$, they've seen it before. It breeds contempt.

Better to just say "no" from the git-go, that is the advice I've received from my Dominican family. Offer up occasionally when someone is in ~real~ need, but not before. Establish the rules up front.

I'd rather be left alone than have hanger-ons who just want something out of the relationship.
 

J D Sauser

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I live in a nice house, as to local standards, I have a nice truck, when it's not smashed all over, and I dress well.
Maybe this is what coralboy refers to as money being visible.
Easy! I work, many times I don't have time for "them" because of it. After all, I have to make money for the rent, pay diesel for the truck, and send the girls to school dressed up and equipped, I NEED to dress nice or I loose business! No business no BBQ's with "them", no Christmas tree and birthdays, no nothing. I bitch and complain about the rent... always on the verge of loosing it all, being kicked out of my home, loosing my car to the bank (yeah right...). All in all, I am in the same mess they are, just with a couple of zero's attached.

... J-D.
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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While there is a certain amount of "innocence" displayed by poorer Dominicans asking for free gifts and whatnot at some point the best medicine is to make the receiver know that you are not a tourist and therefore not on vacation and actually have many expenses just like them.

I say "innocence" with regard to this attitude because it is so prevalent and many times it is evident that the person just does not understand as opposed to just being insidious. Dominican culture grossly exaggerates the wealth of most foreigners and the disposable income of all those who come from nuevaiyol.

A few points of advice, never discuss money issues with the people here, other than your best friend who obviously knows the deal. This includes anyone her family. If you have already made this mistake it is not too late to stop. Get a lockbox to store all of your cash and valuables - as even honest poor people can get corrupted (ex. my ex housekeeper).

As far as meeting people of your own education and income level, there are sufficient avenues to do that especially here in Santiago.
 

Lambada

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That may solve the moment, but not the long term. They KNOW you have $$$, they've seen it before. It breeds contempt.

Better to just say "no" from the git-go, that is the advice I've received from my Dominican family. Offer up occasionally when someone is in ~real~ need, but not before. Establish the rules up front.

I'd rather be left alone than have hanger-ons who just want something out of the relationship.

I don't have any 'hangers-on' so probably that's why it isn't a problem for me. Perhaps also the fact that when we first moved here we brought very little, lived off Dominican salaries etc so our friends can see we started out with little and accumulated over time & through working hard.

I do help people in real need but I tend to spot it before I am asked. What controls my giving is me, my judgement on when help will be well used. And it tends to be part of an ongoing programme of either education or job acquisition - finding out what people's goals are & working on a plan with them to achieve those using their sense of self-responsibility. And if, in this process, they try 'tapping' me, then they get 'the look' & I wait for realisation to dawn of what they are doing. That doesn't take long! But the whole process can be time consuming, so it has to be a few selected people. What doesn't control my giving is guilt. And most certainly not the need to be liked! But I don't think too many have any doubts about that :cheeky:.

I agree that for all foreigners living here it needs to start with us not allowing this to become a problem for ourselves, however we do this. Similar to Thandie's example of the Dominican uncle.

And if it helps at all, SKing, I do think this gets easier with time. It becomes easier to spot the abusadores and easier to use humour to deflect such unwarranted attention.
 

AZB

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Jan 2, 2002
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People eventually graduate to the second stage and then to the 3rd (I want to be left alone stage). I am glad sking has graduated to the 2nd stage so quickly and without losing the shirt off her back (blouse in her case). If you listen to her, she does have a good head on her shoulder and seems like this sister has seen many sides of life , living in USA. She has come to realize the cons and pro of dealing with shameless people, sooner than later.
sking, try to come to our gathering next time. If finding someone to take care of your kids is a problem, then bring them along. I will take care of them. :)
AZB
 
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cobraboy

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I don't have any 'hangers-on' so probably that's why it isn't a problem for me. Perhaps also the fact that when we first moved here we brought very little, lived off Dominican salaries etc so our friends can see we started out with little and accumulated over time & through working hard.
I think coming from GB is also a factor. I don't know if Dominicans think everybody from GB is rich. I do know they think Americans are all rich.

You two came with very little. That is the exception, not the rule.
 

PICHARDO

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Welcome to reality and the after effects of the massive numbers of "do-gooders" coming to the DR...

In the DR we keep what we call "social circles" those are reflective of each level and type of friends you group together.

One circle is your inner and most precious, mostly very close family and associates. Another circle is the one you keep at work and biz details. There's the casual circle of friends to share moments with, be them at a party at home or theirs, trip to the beach, in to the country, etc...

There's the power circle of people that you need to keep at hand, "just" in case you may need their social/power status in the country.

Then lastly is the "hello there" circle of friends! That's the one you don't need to feel awkward from having to offend as you say "no" and "Lo siento, pero no se va a poder"...

There're people bound to abuse the minimal friendship trust you open to them. Simply put, to them it isn't any shape or form of kindness but a potential weakness they can exploit to the fullest if you allow it.

When people you know come to you with unreasonable requests b/c they think you're "rich" unlike them, remember these words well:

Dios aprieta, pero no ahorca...

And with the most compassionated look tell them their taxi is waiting for them to pay the tab as you're "pelada"...

Welcome to the DR's aftermath since all these nice folks from "rich" nations made it their work of love to "help" the needy here...

And to think that in my father's time (not that long ago actually), you could see deals done just over their honest "words" and a firm "handshake".

Friends were like brothers and sisters to you and an extension of your family as well both ways.

They used to have "Maratones" where the nation's people would provide thousands (millions in today value) to build homes, buy food and clothes for natural disasters affected families. All this without a red cent from the bazillion of Do-Gooders from abroad since a while damaging the culture in the DR with their handouts...

We Dominicans are very supportive of the needs of the poor, we're just VERY careful of how our aid is meted out and how it ends up "helping" the people it intended to be aided...

As for the OP: You're already a rabbit in the magician's hat for all intents and purposes, so move to Santiago and star anew with all those ""learned" lessons while making new circles of friendship there...
 
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Chirimoya

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I think coming from GB is also a factor. I don't know if Dominicans think everybody from GB is rich. I do know they think Americans are all rich.

You two came with very little. That is the exception, not the rule.
Most Dominicans - at least in the bracket of those who might ask for money - would never make that distinction. We're all 'Americanos', and even if we are not rolling in it we are as far as they are concerned.

Having said that - I can't think of more than one or two occasions in the last 13 years that someone, acquaintance, friend or stranger, has asked me for money outright.
 

Chip

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Welcome to reality and the after effects of the massive numbers of "do-gooders" coming to the DR...

...

Not so fast honcho, I have been listening many years to my Dominican family and relatives etc. and this attitude that foreigners have so much wealth is hardly caused by do-gooders that come or have been to the DR because if it were so they would be discussing the rich Americans and missionaries who come here and give away their money - and they don't.

They do discuss that in the US "todo es possible" and live with the myth that one can go to the US and accumulate tens of thousands of dollars in a short period of time. This myth is further nurtured and kept alive by the countless Dominicans who live abroad that return here and perpetuate this myth as it is to their benefit by spending tons of money on gifts and parties and bling.

Nice try though.