Questions about Santo Domingo living for a single Black American male

tallboy

New member
May 24, 2009
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Hello Everyone,

I was just looking through some posts and you all are very informative. I will be in Santo Domingo next week from 6/10-6/14 for an interview & apartment search as I may be moving to SD in August. This will be my first trip to la republica and I am a little nervous as I dont know what to expect.

I will be traveling by myself. Not trying to be vain, but I would describe myself as a 28 year old 6'6 black male, athletic build, formerly a collegiate basketball athlete, decent looking, articulate, educated, originally from Jamaica, but most recently from Miami, Florida. I've been told I am easy going and polite.. maybe its the Jamaican in me :). I recently took 2 semesters in Spanish here at the University of Miami and I am using Rosetta Stone provided by my work. I would say my spanish speaking is elementary. Just curious if anyone could answer a couple of things for me:

- How are black males percieved in DR?
- For my short visit, my work is setting me up at the Hilton- Is this a good hotel? Are there any attractions nearby?
- I do like dominican women . Where is a good place to meet local singles during my stay?
- I'd like to expereince some of the culture during my trip, is there any cool places to go?
- What about the nitelife? Any good place to go for a single guy?
- How safe is it for me to travel around by myself?

I have asked a few questions to collegues who live in SD. Some questions, however I dont feel comfortable asking to work collegues. The guys at work have offered to take me out on some nights, however since most of them are a little older and married, I'm not sure I'll get the real perspective for the single guy.

Sorry for the long post. Any thoughts would be helpful.

Cheers!
 

chola1978

Bronze
Mar 20, 2006
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no issues I am a black Dominican and i seem not to have any problems here
i hope you do make it.....
if you do welcome to DR
 

Black Dog

Bronze
May 29, 2009
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I have some friends who have stayed at the Hilton and they were very impressed. From your description I'm pretty sure the girls will find you lol. I'm not that familiar with SD but I'm sure you'll get lots of good tips shortly.
Enjoy your trip!!
 

Aspire

New member
Nov 11, 2007
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- How are black males percieved in DR?
Depending on the social circle it varies. There is a deep racism here that one could argue is primarily based on skin color. HOWEVER, as a non-dominican with a US job, you will find you are grouped more as an American and the generalizations that come with that, rather than as a person of color. I could go deeper into the social circles and the nuisances there, but would rather not here. Feel free to send me a personal message through DR1.



- For my short visit, my work is setting me up at the Hilton- Is this a good hotel? Are there any attractions nearby?
Great hotel. Lots of US companies set folks up there. THE newest hotel on the malecon. It will be cool.

- I do like dominican women . Where is a good place to meet local singles during my stay?
Best way to meet "real" women, not ones out on a hustle is with hanging out with dominicans or people who live here. However, many single friends do well on the day-to-day. The grocery store is on fire as are other stores, and places you find yourself running errands. Eventually spanish will be necessary, but just trying to speak can take you a long way. If you like to dance, then clubs/bars can also be good, but are best to go with locals.

- I'd like to expereince some of the culture during my trip, is there any cool places to go?
By culture if you mean plays/art museums/etc.., then not that many. This is more of a balanced lifestyle place, meaning you can stay in great shape, eat well, have fun nights, visit beautiful beaches, etc...but not too cosmopolitan. Great winter baseball though.

- What about the nitelife? Any good place to go for a single guy?
Bars/clubs, as anywhere all depends on what you are into. You will need to get into either local music (salsa, merengue, bachata) and/or house. Limited live music options (cinema cafe, hard rock cafe). Challenge here is people don't hangout alone, they travel in groups, so someone that is alone has a tough time. Not hard to make friends though, and co-workers, and others love to take you under their wing.

- How safe is it for me to travel around by myself?
At 6'6' super safe. I find it as safe as any hood in NYC. Just walk like you now where you are going without be flashy and have some common sense, it is a safe place!

feel free to send a pm.
 

El_Uruguayo

Bronze
Dec 7, 2006
880
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28
For nightlife check out Dock at Acropolis, they have happy hour from 5-8pm everyday lots of young professionals go there - its busy 7 days a week. Cinema Cafe is good on certain nights. Both will have quite a few foreigners and english speaking dominicans. As for collegues showing you around, even if older and married, they still probably know how to have a good time, you might want to check a couple places with them, find a buddy, and get in there.
 

las2137

New member
Sep 1, 2008
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Not much to add to what others have said. I am an American female who came here single, so I have a different perspective, but some things might apply:

Hilton location- Good hotel, great location. Walk along the malecon, but certainly don't pick up any ladies along there! You can walk to the Zona Colonial from there in about 15 - 20 mins.

In my opinion, the Zona Colonial is the best for both culture (some museums, colonial architecture) and nightlife.

If you're Jamaican, there's a good chance you know how to play dominoes. Watch a few games at your local colmado, it's pretty entertaining!

Where to meet singles?
I agree wholeheartedly, meet them through your friends or work collegaues. It really is the best way- although make sure your friends know what type of woman you are looking for...

If you do end up moving here, I suggest joining a gym. The one I go to is full of young people and I have been hit on upon occasion.

I enjoy living in SDQ. Best of luck!
 

minerva_feliz

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May 4, 2009
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Welcome in advance to the DR! Good luck with the interview!

There is a great deal of racism here, most of which is associated with Haitians who tend to very dark-skinned. The higher up you move in socio-economic classes here, the lighter the skin and the lower the darker. Sounds like with your professional job you will be in an environment and social circle where that is not much of an issue. Also Dominicans generally tend to define beauty by having "pelo bueno" rather than "pelo malo" (kinky hair), lighter skin and a narrower nose. But since you are a guy it's not going to affect you as much if at all.

If you find yourself just randomly standing in the street alone in Santo Domingo, and are dark-skinned, people will possibly assume you are Haitian. In general public settings you can expect to be called "moreno" more frequently than senor. If you are very dark-skinned, make sure you keep an ID on you in case you get stopped by some genious immigration, police or army folks who might confuse you with an illegal Haitian and try to shake you down. This happened to someone I knew near the border and they almost got deported on the spot even though they spoke English, Spanish and no Kreyol and was traveling with a white American.

Don't expect average people to assume you are an American on first glance. When they find out they will probably act surprised, or in another case I know of, often try to argue with you that you really aren't American at all. The word American brings to mind the following: blonde hair, blue eyes, white skin.

To meet ladies, don't be to eager and take it slow. Try to make contacts with professional and educated ladies through your work friends. Don't just fall for the first or any beautiful Dominican woman (there are many) because you might be selling yourself short and at worse get hustled.
 

Angua

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May 29, 2009
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I live in Santo Domingo, and go out A LOT, but basically with my dominican friends. You can give me a call or send me an email if you like, just let me a message!

In case you like the same lifestyle, i can take you out with us ;)

I just don't know too many girls, so i cannot help you out with this...
 

J D Sauser

Silver
Nov 20, 2004
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www.hispanosuizainvest.com
I am not "black", so maybe I see things from a different perspective.
But I seem to observe this:
In the US, a black man who acts and looks American is now being perceived as an African American.
Here... and African America is a "gringo". Being of black or African decent does not seem to make it appear more "local" to our locals than any other American or most foreigner... un gringo prieto (a dark "gringo") , as I seem to hear them like to say around here.
The large majority of Dominicans, even the darkest ones, don't seem to have an "African origin"-conscience.



... J-D.
 

sybillecutey

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May 16, 2007
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I'm a haitian female living in the Dr but for some reason everyone including haitians assume that I'm african american, go figure. I stopped trying to figure Dominicans out, just go with the flow, relax, take it easy and you'll have a good time. I've been there 5 yrs and have been having the time of my life !
 

ExtremeR

Silver
Mar 22, 2006
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- How are black males percieved in DR?
Depending on the social circle it varies. There is a deep racism here that one could argue is primarily based on skin color. HOWEVER, as a non-dominican with a US job, you will find you are grouped more as an American and the generalizations that come with that, rather than as a person of color. I could go deeper into the social circles and the nuisances there, but would rather not here. Feel free to send me a personal message through DR1.



- For my short visit, my work is setting me up at the Hilton- Is this a good hotel? Are there any attractions nearby?
Great hotel. Lots of US companies set folks up there. THE newest hotel on the malecon. It will be cool.

- I do like dominican women . Where is a good place to meet local singles during my stay?
Best way to meet "real" women, not ones out on a hustle is with hanging out with dominicans or people who live here. However, many single friends do well on the day-to-day. The grocery store is on fire as are other stores, and places you find yourself running errands. Eventually spanish will be necessary, but just trying to speak can take you a long way. If you like to dance, then clubs/bars can also be good, but are best to go with locals.

- I'd like to expereince some of the culture during my trip, is there any cool places to go?
By culture if you mean plays/art museums/etc.., then not that many. This is more of a balanced lifestyle place, meaning you can stay in great shape, eat well, have fun nights, visit beautiful beaches, etc...but not too cosmopolitan. Great winter baseball though.

- What about the nitelife? Any good place to go for a single guy?
Bars/clubs, as anywhere all depends on what you are into. You will need to get into either local music (salsa, merengue, bachata) and/or house. Limited live music options (cinema cafe, hard rock cafe). Challenge here is people don't hangout alone, they travel in groups, so someone that is alone has a tough time. Not hard to make friends though, and co-workers, and others love to take you under their wing.

- How safe is it for me to travel around by myself?
At 6'6' super safe. I find it as safe as any hood in NYC. Just walk like you now where you are going without be flashy and have some common sense, it is a safe place!

feel free to send a pm.

Where is that deep racism????
 

ExtremeR

Silver
Mar 22, 2006
3,078
328
0
I am not "black", so maybe I see things from a different perspective.
But I seem to observe this:
In the US, a black man who acts and looks American is now being perceived as an African American.
Here... and African America is a "gringo". Being of black or African decent does not seem to make it appear more "local" to our locals than any other American or most foreigner... un gringo prieto (a dark "gringo") , as I seem to hear them like to say around here.
The large majority of Dominicans, even the darkest ones, don't seem to have an "African origin"-conscience.



... J-D.

NOW, he knows what he is talking about...
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,370
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Where is that deep racism????
Plenty of people have given up trying to explain this. Good thing you're still going, because there are many DR1ers who will simply not get it.

sybillecutey said:
I'm a haitian female living in the Dr but for some reason everyone including haitians assume that I'm african american, go figure. I stopped trying to figure Dominicans out, just go with the flow, relax, take it easy and you'll have a good time. I've been there 5 yrs and have been having the time of my life !
Now this sounds better, a Haitian having the time of her life in the so-called 'super racist' DR.

If race was 'the' issue, she wouldn't be able to enjoy the DR as she has been, considering she's Haitian. Alas, she probably has more money and education than the average Haitian and that makes all the difference in a country where race is not as important as class. People who think different from that Dominican reality, most likely have an American background - whether being native to the US or have become very acculturated and accepted American ways of seeing the world, where race is such a central theme that even issue related to socio-economic class are described in racial terms (EXAMpLE: listen how the African-American woman in the 15th section of the program describes the 'black' billionaire experience - to me it sounds more like something typical of a person going from lower to upper class and not an exclusive 'black' cultural trait (being asked for help, being overwhelmed by being a new center of attention of family members and acquaintances, so on and so forth Billionaires_and_Their_Impact_The_Envy_Economy).

Concerning the OP's questions, on the top part of the page you will see several multicolor tabs. Click where it says travel (and/or living). You'll find the answers to all your questions right there.

-NALs
 
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Angua

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May 29, 2009
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I can see some problems between dominicans and haitians in the low-educated part of the population.
but i personally don't feel racism here, and i hope i never will...
 
B

BettyDiamond

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its very dismissive to say other people "dont get it" as if they are the fountain of all knowledge.
 

blkronin

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Sep 30, 2008
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I believe that economics becomes the leading factor in how people are treated. It does not matter where you go in the world. You will not be treated well if you are perceived to be poor and uneducated. I am also Haitian by birth. I have traveled all over the world. I have traveled in many areas considered to be unfriendly towards black people. I always been treated with respect. The way you carry yourself has a lot to do with how you are treated.
 

Aspire

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Nov 11, 2007
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I do agree with statements that in DR race plays a secondary role for african-americans as they are seen as gringos. By deep racism I mean:

embedded into the psyche
long stading historical, cultural roots
difficult to spot
often denied - "unseen"
hard to eradicate
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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I do agree with statements that in DR race plays a secondary role for african-americans as they are seen as gringos. By deep racism I mean:

embedded into the psyche
long stading historical, cultural roots
difficult to spot
often denied - "unseen"
hard to eradicate
Not just AA's, it plays a secondary role with everyone. You are treated according to your socio-economic status. That status is present in various forms:

- The way you dress, groom.
- The way you talk, particularly Dominican Spanish. The gulf is immense.
- The way you think. As a general rule of thumb, lower class people tend to be more inclined towards being pessimistic and fatalistic, and (gulp) believing in conspiracy theories.
- In some cases, you can even tell by the corporal smell. Poor Dominicans tend to clean themselves with cuava soap, which produces a distinct smell/aroma from more refined products used by non-poor people. This is more noticeable when surrounded by a group of people.

As for the 'its difficult to spot', well I think it is difficult to spot because its relatively rare.

In much of the English literature that has been written about Dominican culture, perhaps 99% has been written by foreigners, and much of it appears to be a mere repetition of what was published in the original literature, when Dominican culture was beginning to be studied for the first time.

This 'repetition ad nauseum' is an incentive for the propagation of misinformation and misunderstandings of Dominican society by foreigners. Sometimes these misinformations are subtle, as in the references to Joaqu?n Balaguer's book "La Isla Al Rev?s" as "The Upside Down Island." I've read that translation in every single article/document that has been published in English. The 'kicker' is that the correct translation should be "The Backward Island" of which not a single English-language "study", article, and critique of Dominican society; particularly when its about the suppose 'racism', has ever referred to the book by its correct translation. If this type of misunderstanding that originated from the first foreign "investigator" to refer to such book to support their thesis has not been corrected to this day, one can only imagine what other type of information has gone this route. Its also a testament to a continuous repetition of information with not much analysis being done by more recent foreign "experts" concerning the validity of what has been published in English about Dominican society.

At other times, its obvious that a certain discrepancy has been 'discovered' by a particular foreign author and he/she will make the adequate change to keep their thesis of the DR being very racist in tact. A good example of this is Joaqu?n Balaguer himself. Often times, on the various articles/documents written about this subject, the various foreign authors pin point to Trujillo as the catalyst, but very often they shift away from Trujillo and focus on Balaguer as the one to receive the brunt of the chastisement for the suppose 'severe racism.' One interesting fact that has always been known is that Trujillo was a Mulatto and he looked the part. His siblings had even greater markings of being Mulattoes. Balaguer, on the other hand, has always been casted, even in English-language literature of the DR, as White. They always make reference to Balaguer's 'race' by writing the world white prior to his name. I think we all know that whenever anyone is referring to racism, inserting the role play of Whites in that ideology is paramount in creating the ephemeral other and showing a sort of racial war or battle. The conquering of the non-White man by the White one. But, in an interesting turn of fate, it turns out that Balaguer was never White, but also a Mulatto. He was related by blood (distant cousin) of Ulises Hereaux, the dictator of the DR in the late 1800s known as Lilis. He was, perhaps, the darkest Dominican to have ever ruled the DR (as dark as the late Jos? Francisco Pe?a G?mez). In light of this, now two ways of referring to Balaguer has emerged in the English-language literature concerning Dominican society. On the one hand there are those 'not in the know' who still make reference to Balaguer as a White, but on the other hand, there are articles beginning to surface in which Balaguer is now referred to as "white-skinned", which is different from simply White, given that to be white skinned, a person has to have a color resembling that of the whites, even if the person is of partial-White ancestry. Plus, now there seems to be an effort in attempting to make him seem foreign, as to give the impression that the DR has been controlled by foreign people, using his Puertorican father as enough to consider Balaguer non-Dominican, or almost non-Dominican; despite his very Dominican mother, of whom we also know had partial Haitian ancestry.

The fact that Mulatto Trujillo has been 'left off the hook' in order to put most of the blame on the "White" Balaguer, poses an interesting twist to the insistance by many foreigners to instill a White vs. Black/Mulatto paradigm, especially when Haitians are thrown into the equation. What its now obvious and has been obvious to Dominicans - despite foreigners ignoring Dominicans on the unwritten by widely understood belief that all Dominicans are brainwashed, hence Dominicans can't be trusted in explaining their own history- is that what has been occurring is more of a Dominican vs. Haitian ordeal, and it has always been simply that. Hence the insistance of Trujillo to differentiate Black Dominicans from Black Haitians in the 1930s through the use of the word Perejil. It was never a White vs. Black/Mulatto ordeal, it could be argued that it was a Mulatto vs. Black ordeal - but this can be easily contested; but what it was for sure was a Dominican vs. Haitian ordeal.

There have been instances of foreign "experts" inventing stuff to support their beliefs of Dominican society. From my understanding, this is what happened by a foreign anthropologist who went to Villa Mella to "investigate and document" the Congos. An elaborate "study" was done connecting the people from VM to the actual Congo in Africa, using various examples of suppose evidence. As it turned out, it was all an invention. There were no connections at all, no serious study. It was all an attempt by a foreign anthropologist to gain fame and utilizing the DR as the perfect subject, using the African connections as a perfect example of such in the DR and Dominican "denial."

And there are an infinite number of little nuances clearly visible to any Dominican who fully understands his culture, his country, and his people in ways that no foreigner will be able to - given that foreigners were not subjected to Dominican culture from birth. Plus, the effect the foreigner's original culture have on their way of interpreting the world, even when they try to shed such influences, is still there and does has an effect that will present all or part of Dominican society in ways that are simply not truly applicable to the Dominican case.

And from this, I think, stems the divergence from the way many Dominicans analyze our culture vs. the way foreigners see it or prefer to see it.

-NALs
 
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TheMindFrame

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Mar 4, 2009
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You are definitely going to have some "What the Heck?" moments

And at the risk of going against the grain of everyone who says race isn't as much of a big deal, I'll add my two cents as a Dominican who left DR at 12, returned at 27 and is getting ready to go back for the forseeable future at 30:

Race takes a different connotation there but it's not like you'll be in the clear. I remember vividly a couple of specific examples where I or a friend of mine (African American) were denied entry to a club on account of having "pelo de negro" our offense? Cornrows. The first time it happened I was with 3 friends I was teaching and living with in Santo Domingo. We went to "Nowhere" en la Zona Colonial (is that place still open?). I had my rows down all nice and neat, and when I'm about to enter the place the bouncer put a hand on my chest and pushed me back told me in Spanish that I wasn't getting in with my hair like that. I was so surprised that the first thing out my mouth was "What the @#@". My friend jumped in, she's a blond girl from Connecticut who had been living in DR for years so her Spanish was really good. She made up a story on the spot about me being her Jamaican boyfriend and we didn't know the rules and other stuff. He finally relented but by that time, I decided that on principle I wasn't going there. I remember having a couple of conversations with Junot Diaz about how the same thing happened to people who were out with him, and to answer the question, I was wearing the same things other patrons going in and out were wearing.

I mean, it was only a couple of years ago that the U.S. Embassy stepped in and forbade its workers from going to certain places due to discrimination.

Look, I'm not trying to start the whole D.R. is/not racist argument. Those conversations generally end up with people preaching to their respective choirs and the arguments have been repeated ad nauseum.

The point of all this is to tell the OP that yes, you should be prepared to feel discriminated against in ocassion, that way when it does happen you don't feel so surprised or taken aback. I'm moving down in July, stay in touch and I'll try to show you some good places to hang out. Still looking for a decent Hip-Hop spot, though.
 

Aspire

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Nov 11, 2007
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Best Junot Diaz line - "The US may have a masters degree in racism, but the DR has a PHD". Not to agree, but just thought it was a great line.