Curandero- "vacuna milagrosa"

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Marianopolita

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I don't usually watch Primer Impacto because of the type of focus of its news content but every now and then it catches my attention. It's sensationalized journalism, or 'amarillista' is the term used in Spanish. However, I decided I'd watch it today and one of the stories that was featured was about a Dominican curandero, Rafael Santiago Peralta. He administered a substance (miracle cure) via vaccination to a woman and she died three days later. Apparently, other people in the village Rancho Arriba (San Jos? de Ocoa ) have also had the vaccination of this unknown substance and are seriously ill.

Dijo que el curandero de 44 a?os de edad rehus? ofrecer los detalles sobre la sustancia desconocida que administr? a 10 personas de Rancho Arriba. ??l dice que tiene un don de Dios y que Dios le ha dado ese poder para que ?l cure el c?ncer, el Sida y otras enfermedades?, manifest?.
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I decided to google the curandero's name and the story about the death of this woman came up in Clave Digital. Primer Impacto just featured it today however this occurred in April of this year. What I find interesting is the action and measures that are taken against 'curanderos' in the DR or anywhere in Latin America since this type of approach to healing a sickness is very common and there are many who strongly believe in the medicine and/or remedies of a curandero. Foreigners may not understand the cultural ramifications here but there are many and some people (locals) only believe in this option to curing illnesses etc.

Here is the story in Clave Digital: Apresan al supuesto ?naturista? cuya vacuna mat? a una mujer :: CLAVE digital

Just to give you an idea of the sensitivity of the definition of curandero here are definitions from two dictionaries:

RAE:

curandero, ra.

1. m. y f. Persona que, sin ser m?dico, ejerce pr?cticas curativas emp?ricas o rituales.

2. m. y f. Persona que ejerce la medicina sin t?tulo oficial.


Word Reference:

curandero,ra- folk healer, witch doctor, quack doctor (pejorative)

In this particular case the curandero was given a jail sentence of three months because he committed a crime but what about the many other deaths or illnesses caused that go unreported and what's the fine line here between beliefs and common sense? Would you allow someone to inject an unknown substance in your body because s/he tells you it's a miracle cure and in this case against cancer, AIDS, and other diseases?

I find the story so depressing because although one may believe in these remedies, one should know to question a substance that's being injected in your body or your children's by someone who is not a qualified doctor. After the death of a person it's obviously too late.


-Marianopolita
 
M

Marianopolita

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Thanks A. Hidalgo & Lambada...

The point I am trying to address is the fine line between beliefs and ignorance (lack of education). I have no issues with a person who believes in using old fashion remedies for certain types of sicknesses rather than buying medicine in the stores that sometimes are worst than the natural medicines because of the side effects they cause etc. However, accepting medicine or a so-called cure from a person who believes he has healing powers with his concoction is just ridiculous IMO. Don't people understand the seriousness of an injection? Once whatever it is is in your body there's no turning back. The curandero refused to state what the substance is. Did he try it? How does he know it works? Ten people are serious ill and one person died. Does this not serve as a red flag to others?

Once again there are cultural implications here and this is practiced all over Latin America, the Caribbean and in poor countries. However, where does one draw the line?

PD. I suspected the link may be from a former DR1 poster and it was. I am sure it was posted with great intentions however, he has been ousted from the board more than once under different user names so please let's not turn the thread focus on him. I am actually really interested to hear experiences first hand by others with curanderos in the DR or their thoughts on the issue.

Thanks.


-Marianopolita
 
L

Lambada

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No my intention certainly wasn't to divert the thread, apologies if that is what it looked like.

When I first arrived to live in the DR I was under the impression that curanderos were brujos (lots of spells and the like). My opinion has changed over the years. After a couple of less than stellar experiences with formal medicine here about 16 years ago, I started learning from locals about the sort of herbs and plants used to deal with certain ailments. I've long been using natural products for my medical issues (red rice yeast for lowering cholesterol for example, which after 10 years use I swear by) although my natural products tend to be imported. But........all these natural products started somewhere as a herb or plant. So I have no difficulty believing that certain plants contain elements which assist in certain illnesses. Thus I have no difficulty believing that curanderos are herbalists with this sort of knowledge. My starting point is not that they are all quacks (although some will be, inevitably, since that is true of every field or profession) but that there is a body of herbalist knowledge which will probably one day convert itself to mass production of medications....... I'm not convinced that plants have to be gathered at certain stages in the lunar cycle but I'm open to believing there could be a difference in components of leaves of a first year growth than a second year, for example. The longer I live here the more open I become to realising that there are some fundamental nuggets in traditional folk practices which have actually been taken on board as the norm by many educated Dominicans because they have grown up with it (a recent recommendation for using horse chestnut for hemerrhoids, for example, which the patient reports is actually working!)

The other thing we need to bear in mind is the access to medicine of the rural poor in the DR. Even if they get to a medical facility they will probably not be able to afford the tests required or medicines recommended. For many here the traditional folk healer provides a bona fide socially and culturally accepted service. Indeed the only service which may be available and accessible.

Two more article here (promise you, NOT written by former posters ;)) which people might find interesting, about folk medicine in Bahoruco
BarreiroCuranderos

EstevezCuranderos
 
C

Chip

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Unfortunately, ignorance causes many people to do what natural intuition and common sense would tell them not to do. This type of thinking permeates the undereducated here in the DR. It's as if the more outrageous and unbelievable (essentially beyond their understanding) the more they are apt to try it. For example, you will here of people drinking gasoline and taking rat poison to cure ailments such as kidney problems, etc.

This is a common trait throughout the world among undereducated people and has been around for centuries. Think of how long "blood letting" was commonly used for all types of ailments, good grief.
 
M

Marianopolita

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Herbs and plants I agree are good remedies for certain ailments...

Curanderos are not brujos IMO (although there may be a fine line between the two) and that may be the initial perception by a foreigner who is not familiar with the practice or culture which can be found anywhere in both the English and Spanish-speaking Caribbean. Many people believe in and know of many natural remedies because they simply don't have and/ or never had access to advanced medicine.

In my opinion, anyone who grew up in the Caribbean or a Caribbean home (cultural background) should be able to relate to the remedies and the immediate instinct to boil herbs and 'bush' as I say in order to cure an illness. From personal experience my own family members are the first to boil something to cure themselves. These types of remedies I completely believe in because I have seen them work effectively. They take longer because natural medicines normally do but if one is consistent it cures whatever the illness is once it is the right combination of herbs, plants etc.

In the Caribbean people who are firm believers in these remedies also share their home remedies with their family and friends. It's a very natural instinct/ concept that when someone is sick somebody will be over to tell you what to take, what herbs to boil etc. However, this particular incident shown on Primer Impacto and supported by the newspaper article in Clave digital is particularly disturbing because it was a substance which the curandero refused to tell police what it was even though people are severely ill and with a deep mark around the area of their body where the 'miracle vaccination' was injected. The added danger is some of the victims (victims IMO because they are now seriously ill) already had delicate diseases such as diabetes and Parkinson's that should not be aggravated by an unknown substance proposed as a cure.

This particular curandero IMO could be deemed as a 'quack' because he refused to say what it was and there was something about his appearance and defensive way of speaking. I trust my own instincts 99% of the time. Knowledge and education allows me to differentiate between the two extremes but this curandero was definitely not someone that should have been trusted and other people in Rancho Arriba who received the injection became seriously ill. Their illness should have been a warning sign to all. Once again desperation sometimes supersedes rationale.


-Marianopolita
 
B

Berzin

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Let's keep this on-topic.

The world of curanderos and the often spiritual roles they play is quite different than in an industrialized country where healthcare is more accessible to the poor.

So comparing the two is irrelevant.
 
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A.Hidalgo

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A curandero may use herbs, but the use of supernaturalism is the indispensable element in his treatment. Whether its the use of God or spirits of some kind this is what makes all the difference between a curandero or a herbalist. A herbalist definitely uses science to back up their treatments. Many medicines are derived from herbs and plants.

In the case of some people allowing themselves to be injected some unknown substance by the curandero, I believe that is were faith or the spiritual component comes into play. That is were ignorance plays a big part.
 
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Chip

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A.Hidalgo said:
A curandero may use herbs, but the use of supernaturalism is the indispensable element in his treatment. Whether its the use of God or spirits of some kind this is what makes all the difference between a curandero or a herbalist. A herbalist definitely uses science to back up their treatments. Many medicines are derived from herbs and plants.

In the case of some people allowing themselves to be injected some unknown substance by the curandero, I believe that is were faith or the spiritual component comes into play. That is were ignorance plays a big part.
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If you are trying to claim faith is ignorance, please.
 
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A.Hidalgo

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To get injected an unknown substance that has killed, by a witch doctor surrounded by his paraphernalia of herbs...yup.:cheeky:
 
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El_Uruguayo

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Thing is with a lot of the herbal remedies is that they are altered, and may contain toxic substances. I remember reading an article about Santerias in NY, both Dominican and Mexican, that were selling "remedies" which contained high levels of lead and arsenic.

And as for curanderos, some make some pretty big claims, curing asma and AIDS? Rediculous. Lack of education and blind faith are a bad mix. Dominicans in general have "too much" faith. Just look at how most drive! Leaving things to the hands of God absolves one of personal responsability. There is such a thing as too much faith, and this does lead to ignorance.
 
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Chip

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You guys are mixing up faith with ignorance. Just because some numnut, btw who is married and has three novias, hops in his car and invokes the Almighty to take care of him as he downs his third bottle Brugal doesn't mean the Almighty will be taking this guy seriously. Same with all of these other pseudo "gran fe" people who put known contaminants in their system and then invoke God to fix them. This is directly against what every person of any type of real faith knows, do not put the Almighty to the test, plain and simple.

Therefore, please stop equating this ignorance with "faith" - they have nothing to do with one another.
 
M

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
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Faith vs. ignorance

In a general sense applicable to all facets of life, IMO, faith is not a reflection of ignorance. One can have faith in something or someone but be fully aware of the pros and cons of whatever they have put their 'faith' in. In the case of the substance, the ignorance is allowing a person, 'curandero' to inject a miracle cure in your body without even knowing what it's composed of.

Regardless what magical powers one may believe he has entrusted by a higher power is just not logical thinking especially when other people became ill (I have to keep repeating this key fact). Having this type of faith is ignorance because if you read the comments by readers of the article they raise the same point. As well, in the documentary people in the village who knew this curandero also said it's ridiculous that he can get away with this practice and people knew exactly where to lead the police to find him when he tried to escape. He was picked up in Puerto Plata.


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Has anyone ever read Bend?ceme, ?ltima by Rudolfo Anaya? It's a classic of Chicano literature. It also presents another perspective of a curandero/a which I think is the one I have 'faith' in the most. Curandero/ a in the sense of a spiritual healer is whole different context.

However, give me something to drink and we part ways. Plain and simple.


-Marianopolita
 
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El_Uruguayo

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I'm not saying that faith is the direct cuase for ignorance. But there is a relationship, causal or not. As I said earlier, too much faith, is too much of a good thing. Believing that God is the only one who can fix things, get things done ect. is ignorant. I'll give you an example, I ask my sister in law "are you going to take care of my wife while I'm gone?" her answer: "si dios quiere". I wasn't asking if god was going to, but if she was going to - there is a displaced responsability. Maybe this is where the "no es mi culpa" thing comes from, "dios lo quizo".

Again Chip, I'm not knocking faith, its a good thing to have, but when it replaces common sense and judgement, leaving things to "God" is not a good idea, and is indeed ignorant.

In the case the curanderos(not avg. healers, rahter the quazi-religous preacher/healer types), I think their faith plays onto others. i.e. Curandero has a great faith in god, therefore I will have faith in him. Get it? Lack of education is a big part of it, but to an extent the level of faith itself pushes people into being somewhat ignorant.

I'm not going to get into the whole "Opiate of the Masses", argument, or into the "evils" of organized religion over the centuries, as that's not the topic at hand - and I believe that faith can be considered something separate from religion. But curanderos are akin to "faith healers", those who go to a "faith healer" for a cure either have an incredible amount of faith, are ingorant, or both.
 
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Chip

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El_Uruguayo said:
I'll give you an example, I ask my sister in law "are you going to take care of my wife while I'm gone?" her answer: "si dios quiere".
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With all due respect the "si Dios quiere" is a rhetorical answer that has lost all of it's real connection to having faith in God, the same as in English when somebody sneezes and one says "God bless you".
 
?

? bient?t

Guest
Chip said:
With all due respect the "si Dios quiere" is a rhetorical answer that has lost all of it's real connection to having faith in God, the same as in English when somebody sneezes and one says "God bless you".
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I'm with El Chip-Oh! on this one: "Si Dios quiere" loses its meaning in any other language other than English. And if English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.

And, for the rest of you Satan-loving heathens, you gotta have faith:

YouTube - George Michael - Faith
 
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HereIam

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I have a friend and when I ask him: "Will you come tomorrow?" and he says "s?", then he will come. If he answers: "s?, si Dios quiere", he will not come.
 
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